Trajectile Dysfunction: Part Deux

[HuskStihl]

OK, so I'm back playing faller again. I first want to say thanks again for all the help and instruction I got the last go round. I am not exagerating when I say that I learned more from that thread than anything else I've read in the last year. This time I'm falling a gum tree. It has been brutally hot and dry here for a couple of years, and the gum trees seem to die without knowing they're dead. Most of the branches fall off and leave a tall, straight, suckered up pole. These don't look good and I feel they are taking water from surrounding trees which have a chance to do well.

I consider myself a directional faller, meaning I saw on a tree for a while, and it falls in the direction it was leaning to begin with. This time, I had to hit a pretty small gap going a little bit against where it wanted to go.

The big mistake I made on the last video, and what is typical for my "falling" is making way too big a face. RandyMac explained to me that chasing my cuts and trying to make a "pretty" face was pointless, much more important to make the face the proper depth. BustedUp gave me good advice on putting in a gunning cut then marking the corners to avoid going too deep with the face. I can't remember who told me when using a step dutchman to get the wood (tx rock) stuffed into the face to get it working sooner (I guess that's a spoiler alert), might have been Madhatte. Everybody told me "LOOK UP!"

So I put in a gunning cut. I left my ego behind, accepted the fact that I am not Bob (either one), Randy, Glen etc and that I probably couldn't just put in my lower cut and make them match. So I started at the near corner, matched it up and tried to err on the shallow side. I did, then moved to the far side, and completed an ugly but not too deep humboldt. This tree was leaning to the right of the intended lay, and was backleaning a bit as well, so I put in a conservative dutch on the near side and stuffed in some of the busted face (I know, I know, but I like it!).

I did not cut from under the lean (thanks Bitz), went about 8 inches into the back cut, put in a wedge, snugged it up and cut some more out of the back, trying not to cut through the hinge. When I thought I had enough I pounded the 12" hard head, and one of the 12" bright green wedges until it fell over. No screaming this time.

Things I did right: Did not chase my cuts, accepted I needed to mark the corners and chunk, and managed to control the depth of the face. Tried to use my brain before using my saw. I looked up, maybe not enough, but more than last time.

Things I did wrong: I'm not very good at the whole chainsaw thing. Hitch hiking, seriously, I told myself "don't hitch hike" but did anyway. I need y'alls help for more of the wrong things, which is what will make me better.

If I had tried to fall this tree a year ago, it would have sat back, fallen 90 degrees to the right, and destroyed a beautiful live oak. Thanks again to you all for helping me out

[video=youtube;a4cPriQ6GpU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=a4cPriQ6GpU[/video]

 

[HuskStihl]

Unfortunately the phone ran out of memory while I was beating wedges. I deleted a couple of cr(apps) and recorded a short video of the aftermath. I promise I didn't move the tree for this video!

[video=youtube;ZtX6Iaxr1Ok]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ZtX6Iaxr1Ok[/video]

 

[northmanlogging]

Much better Doc.

getting your cuts lines up is a matter of practice and technique but mostly practice. I see there are lots of trees still standing out there, so you have plenty to practice on:msp_biggrin:

There are some tricks to getting your cuts to line up but its late and I'm not real coherent at the moment... one involves using the dogs, the other is making sure the saw is level for the gun and back cuts, if you start level its easier to make them match up rather than trying to guess at what angle the opposite side is...

Also as cool a using the humboldt face is, I have to admit that getting the sloping/angle cut to line up with the standard/saginaw is loads easier... just you know, not as cool... and stuff...

One last thing don't be afraid to take a peek and see where the end of your bar is, best way to prevent over cutting a face or back cut is to know how much wood you got to cut/hold, until that bar feels like an extension your arm stopping and looking is a very good idea. Of course if your at all worried about a barber chair just cross your fingers and hope they match up on the back cut anyway.

 

[bustedup]

I'm guessin ya want me to say something seeing as ya mentioned me lol.......

Ok here goes lol


When I suggested ya mark the corners bro it was to stop ya going to deep with the undercut. I should have said do it with gunning sticks lol (which ya can't do on ya own) that was my fault so please to forgive and using gunning sticks is kinda out of fashion and usually done with real big ones but it does work none the less. Also my fault I should have said to ya when ya do sight (gun ya cut) pick something quite a ways a way as the closer you sight the more ya will be out (fancy name is the parallax....think gun scopes same principle).Jon when ya putting in ya gun cut actually get behind ya saw bro and look down the gun sights ....It alot easier that way than from the side. NM said not to be shy and look at where ya tip is and that spot on real good advice and if ya have ya corners marked then you can actually see where you are. Use the dogs to aid ya holding the saw level and as said get behind the head and check the gun (stop if ya have to if it not a head leaner barring any other defects it not gonna pinch ya bar or move a great amount but look up none the less the top is the first clue to things moving).


As far as lining up the cuts you could try this ......dog the saw it at the corner of the undercut hold it level and parallel with the undercut then tilt the bar tip towards the ground til you achieve the angle your wanting and then start the slope and swing the saw round on the dogs that way your cuts should match. that's probably as clear as mud lol but I can't think of another way of saying it. That not a small saw your running ,ok not that big , but heavy enough that trying to hold it by pure muscle strength ain't easy, so use the dogs. You'll get there with time and practice. NM is right the conventional face be it bare or open is easier to line up as the slope (top cut) your not fighting gravity and the weight of the saw.


Ya did over cut the slope but that will come with practice and getting the angles right. Nothing beats repetition there and from that you'll get muscle memory etc.


The step dutchman imo kinda works better with a conventional face I never used it with a humbolt face but and this is picky it kinda worked there as your face was narrow (imo) but I am not being rude to ya just bear in mind that if ya have a narrow face and a step ya could stall the stick and get it either nowhere or when wedging get it to over steer (pull further than ya want it to) the swing dutch alone prob would have worked without the step. The step and face is possibly what caused the fiber pull but that's just my thoughts.


Your back cut well see before ya even face the stick clean of the back (bark) where ya gonna wedge (I know it wasn't thick bark but if ya get into the habit when ya do cut things like that you'll do it without thinking) so the wedges actually bite the wood and not the bark thereby they won't spring out which is a real pain esp if it a back leaner. Jon have ya wedges etc beside ya lol don't go walking behind the stick after ya start cutting lol not the best practice lol. Use the dogs again to level the saw when you start the cut.


You'll get there it not a race bro and lol the white socks tucked into the pants maybe a cool look down your way but honestly get chaps or the like lol.......if ya not going to then stag ya pants don't tuck em into ya socks lol

 

[HuskStihl]

Thanks Northman. I am bad at the humboldt, and much better at matching with a conventional. As the tree was basically a straight stick with a little back lean, I felt the humboldt would be better at keeping it from getting "stuck" in the air. I have no basis for this thinking however.

Busted. Great post. That is exactly what I wanted from posting this. I know it seems like a "look at me, look at me, look what I did!" thing, but I promise I'm just trying to learn more. Your explanations make perfect sense, and once again, things that are probably second nature to pros don't even enter into the minds of farmer cutters such as myself! I am going to save your post for careful study as there are great lessons there. Bob's falling video is a study in efficiency with no wasted movements. Mine is not. I know I can't just be good at sawing because I want to be, but I thought I could be efficient with my movements. It turns out that takes practice as well. I had everything I needed this time, but I did not set it out properly before hand and spent a lot of time walking around in circles.

You guys can't make me good at chainsawing. Only practice can do that, but just hanging around with you guys and listening has taught me to think it out before you cut, and not try to get too fancy. Even though this tree was more challenging than my usual fall it with the lean stuff, I knew as I was doing it that if I took my time I could make a useable (definitely not pretty) face, employ some fairly simple techniques to keep the side lean from pulling it right, and use wedges (thanks to Glen for the hard head suggestion, that 12" drove great) to keep it from sitting back on me. I'm sure I got lucky hitting a fairly small gap, but you're more likely to get lucky when you take your time and heed the advice of more experienced fallers.

Thanks again guys

 

[RandyMac]

Are you getting flame proofed?

 

[HuskStihl]

Are you getting flame proofed?

I went to buy some flame retardant, but I accidentally picked up flamin' retarded. Oh well:msp_biggrin:

 

[Gologit]

LOL...First, do no harm. :msp_biggrin:

You're doing better than you think you are. A Humboldt face, like Northman said, is harder to learn than a conventional. If you want to use a conventional face we won't make fun of you...well, not too much anyway.
Keep practicing the Humboldt though and you'll find that matching your cuts becomes easier and more natural as time goes on. I've had better luck with steering a tree with a Humboldt as a starting point but they're what I'm used to. I still miss my cuts every once in awhile...don't tell anybody, okay?

You might keep your tools closer. Having your ax within easy reach can keep you out of trouble sometimes. If everything is laid out before you start the work seems to flow more smoothly.

When you're wedging, especially if you're really pounding them, look up often. It always impressed me that the vibrations from hitting the wedge will travel up the tree with enough force left to dislodge widow makers, cones, bird nests and such. Never pound the wedges any harder than you have to.

Don't worry about mistakes. Cutting trees is just a continual process of correcting small errors before they become big screw ups. After a while the corrections become so natural and automatic that you're not aware you're making them.

Videos are a great teaching tool and they're totally honest. You'll see every mistake you make. So will everybody else.
I've watched videos of myself and all I could think was "man, I should have been wearing a disguise so nobody knew that was me"...but I saw things that I could do better or safer and I saw little bad habits showing up that I wasn't aware of.

You go to school on every tree. Keep at it. We'll keep nagging you. :msp_biggrin:

 

[HuskStihl]

the white socks tucked into the pants maybe a cool look down your way but honestly don't tuck em into ya socks lol

I cannot believe I'm getting fashion advice from a dress wearing field hockey player:kilt::jester:


I figured since the other 70's stuff like the CHiPs sunglasses and the stuff on your butt jeans made a comeback, I'd try to bring the pants in the socks back too!:biggrin:

It is a cool look, but honestly only done 'cause I'm not manly enough to take the discomfort of 100 fire ants up my pants stirring up trouble!

 

[slowp]

I cannot believe I'm getting fashion advice from a dress wearing field hockey player:kilt::jester:


I figured since the other 70's stuff like the CHiPs sunglasses and the stuff on your butt jeans made a comeback, I'd try to bring the pants in the socks back too!:biggrin:

It is a cool look, but honestly only done 'cause I'm not manly enough to take the discomfort of 100 fire ants up my pants stirring up trouble!

Perhaps you could dye the socks black and make some fake cuffs to disguise the poofy clown look?

Nah, you can be forgiven because of where you are located. Different styles for different regions. I noticed that the hooktenders who had worked in Alaska tended to wear sweatpants under their rainpants here.

I'll try to locate Tarzan Tree's video. It shows how he is thinking ahead and tosses his axe to the next tree.
It goes where he wants it to also.

 

[slowp]

[video=youtube;G5qmAD4c49E]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5qmAD4c49E&feature=share&list=UUWKSbadKpcB7HZiYFgEi05g[/video]

 

[northmanlogging]

If you start falling a whole bunch of trees and limbing as you go that axe and those wedges start feeling like an anchor... I tend to leave most of them behind at the stump, finish bucking and limbing then chuck the axe towards the next tree (sometimes it makes there...) and I keep my wedges in a pouch/pocket type thing on my belt. That way I don't have to go looking for em when I really need em. For the average firewooding, farmer though just a couple in your back pocket should be enough as long as you have more nearby if you need them...


For the fire ants the scots? had an item of mens apparel called spats. They may have been called gators here in the states? really just a fake canvas boot top looking thing, all the kids where wearing them circa 1917... (they where issued to troops in WWI and WWII). Not that I care what you look like but bringing back the spats could be the next new trend?

Gotta go get some tree killing done...

 

[slowp]

Here ya go.

Outdoor Research Gaiter at REI - FREE SHIPPING With $50 minimum purchase.

 

[Cfaller]

Here is a few tips on gunning. Get your body squared up with the tree you'll be cutting. Then point your shoulder at the location you want the tree to go. I will usually aim at another tree, stump, or rock past where the tree will land. Once you cut in far enough ( bar width) check the gun and square your body up again. Keep cutting and checking until the horizontal cut of the undercut is done. Once the undercut is done recheck your gun again.
On the backcut, get the saw set again. Then gun it at the object you did for the undercut. Keep maintaining it through the cut to keep the holding wood even. This will help for not cutting off the off side corner.

 

[HuskStihl]

Here is a few tips on gunning. Get your body squared up with the tree you'll be cutting. Then point your shoulder at the location you want the tree to go. I will usually aim at another tree, stump, or rock past where the tree will land. Once you cut in far enough ( bar width) check the gun and square your body up again. Keep cutting and checking until the horizontal cut of the undercut is done. Once the undercut is done recheck your gun again.
On the backcut, get the saw set again. Then gun it at the object you did for the undercut. Keep maintaining it through the cut to keep the holding wood even. This will help for not cutting off the off side corner.

That's good advice. I always feel like my bar tip is too high, when it is actually fine, then I lower it making things "sloppy." While not a supremely athletic specimen, I always feel more "clumsy" with a saw than with other things. I'll work on body positioning as well as incorporating that into BustedUp's very good advice on how to line things up better. One of the best pieces of advice I got last time may have been from RandyMac, and it was basically to not be afraid to put in a new cut if things aren't working in the face. More than half of my face cuts are now chunk it out sort of things, but I haven't lost one this year.
I still am amazed when I watch Glen (TB's) falling video. Big assed tree, probably a 50 pound face (at least), and his cuts looked to be within a few millimeters of matching. Maybe all the big boys can throw down like that, but that is impressive to this Farmer Brown!

 

[bustedup]

If you start falling a whole bunch of trees and limbing as you go that axe and those wedges start feeling like an anchor... I tend to leave most of them behind at the stump, finish bucking and limbing then chuck the axe towards the next tree (sometimes it makes there...) and I keep my wedges in a pouch/pocket type thing on my belt. That way I don't have to go looking for em when I really need em. For the average firewooding, farmer though just a couple in your back pocket should be enough as long as you have more nearby if you need them...


For the fire ants the scots? had an item of mens apparel called spats. They may have been called gators here in the states? really just a fake canvas boot top looking thing, all the kids where wearing them circa 1917... (they where issued to troops in WWI and WWII). Not that I care what you look like but bringing back the spats could be the next new trend?

Gotta go get some tree killing done...

Gators are them things with teeth lol......me thinks ya mean gaiters lol WWl things were puttees over here lol.


I wear em when we shooting ....formal shooting with full tweeds



seriously tho you can get chainsaw type gaiters

 

[bustedup]

I cannot believe I'm getting fashion advice from a dress wearing field hockey player:kilt::jester:


I figured since the other 70's stuff like the CHiPs sunglasses and the stuff on your butt jeans made a comeback, I'd try to bring the pants in the socks back too!:biggrin:

It is a cool look, but honestly only done 'cause I'm not manly enough to take the discomfort of 100 fire ants up my pants stirring up trouble!

Husk I have a whole load of respect for ya .......your a Doctor you save folks lives and make them better ......all I have done is cut trees and do the UK and US govt bidding. So don't dare be hard on ya self as far as falling concerned.


My post was only my thoughts there are way better, and I mean guys that would smoke my ass long before my brain could even kick into gear for falling so take what I said as no more than my thoughts ......but don't save it my friend it sure ain't worth that.


Oh and lol yep I do have a kilt but really when working much prefer pants .......less chance of getting jagged places I no want jagged lol.

 

[Gologit]

I cannot believe I'm getting fashion advice from a dress wearing field hockey player:kilt::jester:


I figured since the other 70's stuff like the CHiPs sunglasses and the stuff on your butt jeans made a comeback, I'd try to bring the pants in the socks back too!:biggrin:

It is a cool look, but honestly only done 'cause I'm not manly enough to take the discomfort of 100 fire ants up my pants stirring up trouble!

I'm glad to see that you're not a slave to fashion. Slowp has been trying to get us all color-coordinated for years but so far we've held out against it. She doesn't give up easy...watch out.

On the subject of videos...don't worry about it too much. It probably won't ever happen again but if you watched a video of me putting in sutures you'd probably fall down laughing.

 

[bustedup]

ya wanna see no fashion sense lol .........View attachment 302265

 

[HuskStihl]

My post was only my thoughts there are way better, and I mean guys that would smoke my ass long before my brain could even kick into gear for falling so take what I said as no more than my thoughts ......but don't save it my friend it sure ain't worth that.

Graeme, you have given me lots of advice in the past year, and every piece of it has been spot on. I think of you as being just as knowledgeable with regards to falling technique as anybody else here. Your first post on this thread made me proud because it seemed like big boy advice, which I may not deserve, but its what I am after.