tree appraisal for fire damage

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priest

ArboristSite Operative
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Oklahoma
A client of mine lives in a fairly affluent neighborhood that is wooded, predominantly with Post Oak, and also with Blackjack, Red Cedar, and other native trees. The lots are a few acres apiece, so each house has the feeling of being "tucked away" in the woods. The nextdoor neighbors did not like the trees, so they bulldozed their lot and made it a lawn.

Two days ago, the wife (neighbor) was burning a pile of leaves. She had acquired a permit to do so, but it was a very windy day. The leaf pile was about thirty yards upwind from the property line, where the lawn stops and the trees (belonging to my client) begin.

An ember ignited dry leaves at the edge of my client's property. The wife and my client both battled the situation with garden hoses (but did not really have enough hose to reach) for 30 minutes until the fire department arrived. The firemen extinguished the blaze and left.

The fire re-ignited a few hours later and burned more of my client's property. He again fought his fiery foe with a garden hose (sprinkler system was turned off for winter) until the fire department arrived again and put the fire out for good that time.

It was not a very hot fire. It burned mostly leaves and fallen limbs.. It burned patches in about a half an acre area. Some trees are badly charred at the bottom 18 inches of their trunks, some only slightly, and some not at all. Some of the saplings and brush were badly scorched.

Most of the trees that were damaged are Post Oaks 4 inch through 24 inch dbh. Just guessing, I expect that perhaps 15 trees in this category will not survive due to fire damage.

My client's insurance company wants a "bid" on repairing the damage. The insurance adjuster had no experience with this kind of a claim, so we don't know if they are paying for cost of removal of damaged trees, appraised value or replacement value of trees, both, or neither.

And guess who gets to come up with the bid . . . . me. I have never appraised a single tree.

Any suggestions on how to appraise the damage, how the insurance company may work, and liability of the pyromaniac, tree-hating neighbors would be appreciated. I don't want to come up with some outlandish number and have the insurance company go after the neighbors (bad PR). So I was thinking of kind of low-balling the individual tree value (after all, it is the woods) and adding the cost of removal of dead trees. The problem is we won't know the extent of the damage for some time as the trees are still dormant.

As far as the value of the trees, removing the damaged ones will dramatically reduce the privacy screen between the two homes.
 
In your situation I would probably subcontract a member of ASCA that is versed in current tree appraisal values and they are trained in report writing. You could put your two heads together on survival chances and then bid on resulting pruning, removals and stump grinding and clean up. Years ago I used to do appraisals through the manual but found it without profit and clients wanting me to make up for all their other nonrelated tax problems w a real high number so I quit doing it.
 
The insurance adjuster had no experience with this kind of a claim, so we don't know if they are paying for cost of removal of damaged trees, appraised value or replacement value of trees, both, or neither. ... how to appraise the damage, how the insurance company may work, and liability of the pyromaniac, tree-hating neighbors would be appreciated. I don't want to come up with some outlandish number and have the insurance company go after the neighbors (bad PR).
Bad PR for who? The neighbor is responsible. Both ins co's should be talking to each other about sharing the liability. The fire department's actions also seem open to question.

priest, you are appraising the loss in value to your client's property. It's not a bid, it's an appraisal. Big difference. first, look at your state's statute on plant loss. NC's is attached; notice that firestarters can pay double. Also attached is some advice on this (not mine, just passing it on)

Job 1 is to lessen the losses. Pyrowoman should buy your client a load of mulch to replace what she burned, and the area needs to be irrigated. This is step 1. on your Cost of Repair appraisal. If you want to do this work, you should 1. be paid by the hour 2. Systematically inspect the trees.

Here's a list of potential ASCA consultants. there are others who are qualified who are not ASCA members. http://www.asca-consultants.org/directory/index.cfm?fuseaction=searchResults
 
I would second treevets post. If you are unfamiliar with appraisal then sub it to a registered ASCA member. This is a example of using the right tool for the job, a registered consulting arborist.
If you do this on your own be prepared to back up your findings in a court of law.
I am not a ASCA member.
 
Priest

Be prepared for the opposing party to claim the trees are in a forested setting and the loss is a cord of firewood. The act sounds negligent, not purposeful, thus they will dodge the 2x, 3x, etc allowed by law. You need to build cause for treating the trees as landscape, show past arborist care or forest management for esthetics. lol
 
Is there a way to determine if the tree will survive? I've seen trees survive some amazing fires here in CA...but I've also seen wimpy fires be the "last straw" for other trees.

It'd be a shame to charge all this money to remove large trees that only had cosmetic damage, and replace them with smaller trees.

I say mulch the trees, then charge for a few evaluations in the coming spring months to see how the growth on the :blob2: trees compares to the growth of the non burned trees in the yard.

If not...then you should evaluate the cost to remulch, remove the trees and stumps, AND replace with similar sized trees? Shouldn't insurance be getting you to your pre-loss condition? If you replace a 40' tree with a 24" boxed tree...that doesn't seem like pre-loss to me!

love
nick
 
From Nick, "
Shouldn't insurance be getting you to your pre-loss condition? If you replace a 40' tree with a 24" boxed tree...that doesn't seem like pre-loss to me!"
Yes to the first one and it isnt to the second. Thats why the numbers start to get big in a hurry. Big numbers=more attention from insurance company= potential litigation and court time.
 
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Shouldn't insurance be getting you to your pre-loss condition?

In legalese this is called "making whole".

As the topper from Maine infers, the way to assess value can be all over the place.

Does the client have a record of tending the woodlot in any manner? How much was maintained for amenity value? Were all the plants pre-existing, or were some installed by the client?

If one never did any upkeep in the woodlot, then it may be hard to argue high amenity value.

Also, fire damage can show up several years later as thwould wood pushes off the dead bark.

One quick and dirty, and many say more reasonable, way to go ahead is to plant multiple small trees and srubs in the area to replace those that may have been damaged along with coppicing the smaller damaged trees.

One could say something like 30, 1-1.5 inch caliper trees with large root balls (harvested for you with a larger spade), with mulching, temporary irrigation and low N organic fert. Submit it as a bid for cure with an offer for a formal survey, evaluation, site plan and plan or long term care nad evaluation of existing trees that may have been damaged by the fire.

Are the post oaks the bigger Q. stellata, or the small scrubby Q. margarettiae (sand post oak)? I've read that the latter has a greater basal/root regeneration rate and responds to coppicing better then stellata, which regenerats mostly from basal sprouts.
 
If one never did any upkeep in the woodlot, then it may be hard to argue high amenity value....go ahead is to plant multiple small trees and srubs in the area to replace those that may have been damaged along with coppicing the smaller damaged trees.
No maintenance is needed to establish amenity value. it helps tho.

planting early--what about damaging roots in this process? Sounds risky, plus it would make removal of the burnt trees harder.

The firestarter's state of mind is irrelevant in NC as some court cases have gone. as long as they lit the match they are liable.

The focus right now should be on care. Has your client approached the pyro about their need to cover expenses? priest can you post some pictures?
 
hi mate,

here in Oz most trees need a good fire to keep them healthy and it also helps their seeds to germinate. However i know nothing about PostOaks or the other species you,ve talked about.

I think if i were you, i'd be looking for somewhere else close by to your clients place where there has been a bushfire in the past. study the damage done to the trees there. maybe count the number of dead treews per 100 and report to the insurance company the average percentage rate in other fire cases.

Like i say i don't know the trees your talking about, would forestry have any info? if the trees are suitable for timber use then forestry may have already done research.

Thanks Priest Bro,
Be Blessed!
 
Thanks for the suggestions. The Post Oaks are the larger Q. stellata species of Post Oak. I will try to post pictures of the damage to individual trees soon.
 
some pictures

Here are some pictures showing the fire damage to the area. Most of the trees are Post Oaks. There are also a couple of Blackjacks, a few cedars, and a couple of Hackberries.

Once again, it was not an incredibly hot fire, but I was surprised to notice today some scorching of bark as high as twelve feet on a few of the trees.

The weather has been unseasonably warm here lately, and many of the trees are already beginning to leaf out (this is the earliest I've ever noticed oaks of any kind leafing out around here). So there may be some indication of decline in the trees that were scorched the worst earlier than expected.

For some reason its not letting me attach the pictures, so I guess I'll have to try again later.
 
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having problems with attachments

I am unable to attach any pictures at all. I am going to the "Manage Attachments" button, browsing for my file, and clicking "Upload". Then the computer thinks for about 20 seconds while displaying "Uploading file", and gives me a "file upload failed" message.

The files are jpegs and are about 2.8 mb on average.

Is anyone else having this problem?

Thanks
 
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