Tree Damage From Crop Spraying

[TNTreeHugger]

ATRAZINE 4LEPA REG. NO. 34704-692

PRECAUTIONARY STATEMENTSHAZARDS TO HUMANS AND DOMESTIC ANIMALSCAUTION
Harmful if swallowed, inhaled or absorbed through the skin. Avoid contact with skin, eyes, or clothing. Causes moderate eye irritation. Keep away from food and feedstuffs.
Personal Protective Equipment (PPE): Some materials that are chemical-resistant to this product are listed below. If you want more options, follow the instructions for Category A on an EPA chemical resistant category selection chart.
Applicators using spray equipment mounted on their backs must wear:• Coveralls over long-sleeved shirt and long pants,• Chemical-resistant footwear plus socks, and• Chemical-resistant gloves such as barrier laminate, nitrile rubber, neoprene rubber or viton.
Mixers, loaders, all other applicators, flaggers, and other handlers must wear:• Long-sleeved shirt and long pants,• Chemical resistant gloves such as barrier laminate, nitrile rubber, neoprene rubber or viton,• Shoes plus socks, and• Chemical-resistant apron, when mixing/loading, cleaning up spills, cleaning equipment, or otherwise exposed to the concentrate.
See Engineering Controls for additional requirements.
Follow manufacturer’s instructions for cleaning/maintaining PPE. If no such instructions for washables exist, use detergent and hot water. Keep and wash PPE separately from other laundry.
Discard clothing and other absorbent material that have been drenched or heavily contaminated with this product’s concentrate. Do not reuse them.

USER SAFETY RECOMMENDATIONS
Users should:• Wash hands before eating, drinking, chewing gum, using tobacco or using the toilet.• Remove clothing/PPE immediately if pesticide gets inside. Then wash thoroughly and put on clean clothing.• Remove PPE immediately after handling this product. Wash the outside of gloves before removing. As soon as possible, wash thoroughly and change into clean clothing.


Just found out this is "Harvey" and Harvy is likely not certified.

 

[farmer steve]

ATRAZINE 4LEPA REG. NO. 34704-692

PRECAUTIONARY STATEMENTSHAZARDS TO HUMANS AND DOMESTIC ANIMALSCAUTION
Harmful if swallowed, inhaled or absorbed through the skin. Avoid contact with skin, eyes, or clothing. Causes moderate eye irritation. Keep away from food and feedstuffs.
Personal Protective Equipment (PPE): Some materials that are chemical-resistant to this product are listed below. If you want more options, follow the instructions for Category A on an EPA chemical resistant category selection chart.
Applicators using spray equipment mounted on their backs must wear:• Coveralls over long-sleeved shirt and long pants,• Chemical-resistant footwear plus socks, and• Chemical-resistant gloves such as barrier laminate, nitrile rubber, neoprene rubber or viton.
Mixers, loaders, all other applicators, flaggers, and other handlers must wear:• Long-sleeved shirt and long pants,• Chemical resistant gloves such as barrier laminate, nitrile rubber, neoprene rubber or viton,• Shoes plus socks, and• Chemical-resistant apron, when mixing/loading, cleaning up spills, cleaning equipment, or otherwise exposed to the concentrate.
See Engineering Controls for additional requirements.
Follow manufacturer’s instructions for cleaning/maintaining PPE. If no such instructions for washables exist, use detergent and hot water. Keep and wash PPE separately from other laundry.
Discard clothing and other absorbent material that have been drenched or heavily contaminated with this product’s concentrate. Do not reuse them.

USER SAFETY RECOMMENDATIONS
Users should:• Wash hands before eating, drinking, chewing gum, using tobacco or using the toilet.• Remove clothing/PPE immediately if pesticide gets inside. Then wash thoroughly and put on clean clothing.• Remove PPE immediately after handling this product. Wash the outside of gloves before removing. As soon as possible, wash thoroughly and change into clean clothing.

View attachment 1178686

I'm not fighting with you. We don't know from your pic if that corn the farmer is walking through was sprayed or not. If so he is in violation of the REI. If not he's OK. The sprayer operator is exempt for some of the PPE requirements because enclosed cab. I have the book.

 

[TNTreeHugger]

I'm not fighting with you. We don't know from your pic if that corn the farmer is walking through was sprayed or not. If so he is in violation of the REI. If not he's OK. The sprayer operator is exempt for some of the PPE requirements because enclosed cab. I have the book.
View attachment 1178688

Yes, I read that part of the label.
I watched him spray that area he is walking in.
While I was gone, he moved the tractor to where it is in the photo.

Nice to know you're "not fighting with me."

Just to be clear, you're saying it's not a violation to eat his lunch in the tractor while spraying Atrazine?

 

[farmer steve]

Yes, I read that part of the label.
I watched him spray that area he is walking in.
While I was gone, he moved the tractor to where it is in the photo.

Nice to know you're "not fighting with me."

Just to be clear, you're saying it's not a violation to eat his lunch in the tractor while spraying Atrazine?

In the user safety recommendations it says " users should" wash hands before eating, drinking etc. Nothing in my label that says it's in violation. Most of those sprayers have super fine filters in them to remove any particulates. Now if ya wanna talk common sense the guy walking through the field is a dumb a$$ if it was just sprayed.

 

[TNTreeHugger]

In the user safety recommendations it says " users should" wash hands before eating, drinking etc. Nothing in my label that says it's in violation. Most of those sprayers have super fine filters in them to remove any particulates. Now if ya wanna talk common sense the guy walking through the field is a dumb a$$ if it was just sprayed.

Yes, common lingo from non-committal government agencies and pharma/chemical companies... "should" "could" "might" "may" and the all-time favorite, "insufficient data."

Absolutely a dumbass... and a liar for telling me he was spraying fertilizer.

 

[TNTreeHugger]

New development...

A neighbor, about a mile east of me, has contacted me.
I talked to him in 2022 when I saw the contamination all around and showed him the damage I saw in his yard.
I suggested they get tests. They didn't.
This year, they are seeing damage again and did have tissue samples tested - positive 2,4-D.
No surprise there.

He's all gung-ho about doing something about it now.
He's about half my age, is very outgoing, has lots of friends and contacts, knows how to use social media, and has a very expensive plant operation on his property, that's his livelihood.

I'm in the process of typing up all the notes I've written down to paper since 2022 and I'll give it all to him on flash drive. Hopefully, he'll carry the torch further and get more positive results.
We'll see.

 

[lone wolf]

New development...

A neighbor, about a mile east of me, has contacted me.
I talked to him in 2022 when I saw the contamination all around and showed him the damage I saw in his yard.
I suggested they get tests. They didn't.
This year, they are seeing damage again and did have tissue samples tested - positive 2,4-D.
No surprise there.

He's all gung-ho about doing something about it now.
He's about half my age, is very outgoing, has lots of friends and contacts, knows how to use social media, and has a very expensive plant operation on his property, that's his livelihood.

I'm in the process of typing up all the notes I've written down to paper since 2022 and I'll give it all to him on flash drive. Hopefully, he'll carry the torch further and get more positive results.
We'll see.

Now recruit more people! Have you talked to the Mayor?

 

[TNTreeHugger]

Now recruit more people!

Been there, done that. No one was interested.

Have you talked to the Mayor?

He was the first one I contacted two years ago... he's not interested.

I don't want to rain on my neighbor's parade, but I'm afraid he's about to get slapped by reality.
I'm hoping he has better luck than I did.
But, we'll see. He's not me and maybe he's The One.

 

[OM617YOTA]

Best of luck, ma'am.

 

[jblnut]

Also not fighting with you here ….

Just to be clear, you're saying it's not a violation to eat his lunch in the tractor while spraying Atrazine?

Not a violation as posted before but common sense says wash up first. I eat sammichs in the tractor while spraying all the time. No big deal. My tractor has a “spray ready cab” and is pressurized and takes a special filter that is not cheap. I swap to the regular cab filter whenever we’re not spraying to help that spendy bugger last longer.

Absolutely a dumbass... and a liar for telling me he was spraying fertilizer.

He may not have been but I absolutely spray fertilizer on with my sprayer. If the corn looks burnt a bit a few days after application he was spraying Nitrogen. If not it’s unlikely he was spraying fertilizer. I use 32% Nitrogen as the liquid with my 2nd pass herbicide application on any fields that need a 2nd pass. This year around half the ground got sprayed twice and the other half didn’t need it as the pre-emerge is doing its job well enough.

I sure as hell don’t walk around in the field once it’s been sprayed though. That’s just dumb. I’ve gotten straight Atrizine on my skin before and no way in hell do I want to do that again. Once in solution it’s very diluted but still not something to mess around with. It’s a nasty nasty herbicide but it is inexpensive and works very very well so I continue to use it. It, as well and every herbicide, needs to be respected and treated like the poison that it is. I treat them all like battery acid. PPE and caution are taken. Move slowly and double check things. Can’t be too careful.

 

[TNTreeHugger]

Also not fighting with you here ….


Not a violation.

Got it.

He may not have been.

He wasn't spraying fertilize. He lied. His boss told me he was spraying 2,4-D LV6 ester.

I sure as hell don’t walk around in the field once it’s been sprayed though. That’s just dumb.

It's not "dumb" it's against label regulations. The restricted time out is 12 hours.

I’ve gotten straight Atrizine on my skin before and no way in hell do I want to do that again. Once in solution it’s very diluted but still not something to mess around with. It’s a nasty nasty herbicide but it is inexpensive and works very very well so I continue to use it. It, as well and every herbicide, needs to be respected and treated like the poison that it is. I treat them all like battery acid. PPE and caution are taken. Move slowly and double check things. Can’t be too careful.

And yet, with farmers applying all those precautions, somehow, mysteriously, and magically, in 2022 across the state of TN, in farm areas, non-target vegetation was decimated from 2,4-D LV6 ester volatilization.
Would you say, as does the chemical companies, that is "applicator error?"

 

[jblnut]

He wasn't spraying fertilize. He lied. His boss told me he was spraying 2,4-D LV6 ester.

Any way to know if his boss was telling the truth ? Any applicator (at least in MN) is required to have MSDS sheets in the sprayer rig cab for the products, and nothing else, that they’re spraying at the time. I have different books for the different programs we run that I can grab and go when I load the sprayer.

It's not "dumb" it's against label regulations.

Going against label regulations seems rather dumb to me so

And yet, with applicators applying all those precautions, somehow, mysteriously, and magically, in 2022 across the state of TN, in farm areas, non-target vegetation was decimated from 2,4-D LV6 ester volatilization.

Fixed it for you. More acres are sprayed by custom applicators each year than the actual farmers themselves. Don’t lump me in with all the Co-Op flunkies. They’re subject to the same rules as the rest of us but being employees not working on their own ground driving their own equipment I assure they care a little less than those of us that stand to lose the farm if something goes awry.

Would you say, as does the chemical companies, that is "applicator error?"

Whatcha fishing for with that statement ? Trying to imply that all issues are applicator error or that the chemical companies are blaming the applicators ? Herbicides take someone to apply them so if something went wrong and a non-target crop/plant was damaged then yes, it was applicator error. Not a tough one to figure out there.


Have you ever seen any damage from Dicamba or just 2,4-D ?

 

[TNTreeHugger]

Any way to know if his boss was telling the truth ? Any applicator (at least in MN) is required to have MSDS sheets in the sprayer rig cab for the products, and nothing else, that they’re spraying at the time. I have different books for the different programs we run that I can grab and go when I load the sprayer.


Going against label regulations seems rather dumb to me so


Fixed it for you. More acres are sprayed by custom applicators each year than the actual farmers themselves. Don’t lump me in with all the Co-Op flunkies. They’re subject to the same rules as the rest of us but being employees not working on their own ground driving their own equipment I assure they care a little less than those of us that stand to lose the farm if something goes awry.


Whatcha fishing for with that statement ? Trying to imply that all issues are applicator error or that the chemical companies are blaming the applicators ? Herbicides take someone to apply them so if something went wrong and a non-target crop/plant was damaged then yes, it was applicator error. Not a tough one to figure out there.


Have you ever seen any damage from Dicamba or just 2,4-D ?

I'm done.
Have you read this entire thread from the beginning?
Get back to me when you do.

No offense,

 

[jblnut]

I'm done.
Have you read this entire thread from the beginning?
Get back to me when you do.

No offense,

Honestly not all 73 pages but a bunch of them and I assure you there there will zero more read to catch up to current with an attitude like that.

Implying that you’re “done” with someone because they haven’t read all 73 pages of a thread and feel the need to ask a question is very rude and a good way for others to not give it the time of day.

I can’t even put “no offense” at the end of this post because like your buddy Harvey, I’d be a lier.

 

[TNTreeHugger]

Honestly not all 73 pages but a bunch of them and I assure you there there will zero more read to catch up to current with an attitude like that.

Implying that you’re “done” with someone because they haven’t read all 73 pages of a thread and feel the need to ask a question is very rude and a good way for others to not give it the time of day.

I can’t even put “no offense” at the end of this post because like your buddy Harvey, I’d be a lier.

I added "no offense" because it wasn't my intention to offend you.
You have to realize I've been dealing with this issue - an ongoing issue - since 2022.
As of today, it looks like the worst of it is over.
This thread contains all of the agony I endured over the past two + years. I have zero intention of reliving it.
I can appreciate your interest and your asking questions is not unreasonable.
But, put yourself in my shoes - would you want to relive a horrible experience by answering the same questions repeatedly being asked of a multitude of curious, and sometimes sympathetic (sometimes not), people?
I don't.
I occasionally post updates to this thread, mostly for my own reference, but also for those who are following along with the saga.

I'm sorry if I did offend you.

 

[pdqdl]

Any applicator (at least in MN) is required to have MSDS sheets in the sprayer rig cab for the products, and nothing else, that they’re spraying at the time.

I'm sure you will discover that the regulations say "product label" rather than "MSDS". The MSDS is a document produced so that the poison control centers will know what to do with you when being medically treated. It isn't any part of the pesticide regulations that I am familiar with.

As evidence, allow me to remind you that a Material Safety Data Sheet is produced by many industrial, commercial, and even consumer products. I've been asked by some of my customers to give them the MSDS's for everything I use, but they still don't ask for the product labels. I think it is an OSHA thing, because those folks wouldn't have any idea how to read an EPA mandated product label.

 

[jblnut]

I'm sure you will discover that the regulations say "product label" rather than "MSDS". The MSDS is a document produced so that the poison control centers will know what to do with you when being medically treated. It isn't any part of the pesticide regulations that I am familiar with.

As evidence, allow me to remind you that a Material Safety Data Sheet is produced by many industrial, commercial, and even consumer products. I've been asked by some of my customers to give them the MSDS's for everything I use, but they still don't ask for the product labels. I think it is an OSHA thing, because those folks wouldn't have any idea how to read an EPA mandated product label.

Well aware of the difference between the two. An EMS team doesn’t care as much about “how” you’re suppose to be applying the chem as they do “what” you’re applying. My records on farm include details about what, where, when, wind speed and temperature.

I’ve been to many courses over the years on how to read labels and MSDS sheets and the processes we need to follow.

 

[pdqdl]

Y'er kind of a sensitive fellah, aren't you?

I wasn't commenting on what you might be politely asked to help out an EMS; I was commenting on your statement about Minnesota laws. Push comes to shove, it will be a Minnesota Department of Agriculture agent that demands from you any pertinent documents.

Now as to the rules: here is what the State of Minnesota says you need:
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/18B.37

There is no mention of an MSDS, an SDS, nor even having the product label at what I found on the state level. Now if the Dept of Ag has such a rule, I didn't find it.

If you wish to continue the debate on this topic, I suggest you enlighten us all, and I will happily concede your point if you can produce the documentation.

 

[jblnut]

Any applicator (at least in MN) is required to have MSDS sheets in the sprayer rig cab for the products, and nothing else, that they’re spraying at the time.

Should have said required by the local EMS teams here. Likely not “required” but when they say they want to know what they’re dealing with that seems to fall under the requirement category for me. By “nothing else” I didn’t mean no other info or books, just no other MSDS sheets than what I’m spraying at the time.

Y'er kind of a sensitive fellah, aren't you?

Can be. Maybe you should try it out sometime.

I wasn't commenting on what you might be politely asked to help out an EMS; I was commenting on your statement about Minnesota laws. Push comes to shove, it will be a Minnesota Department of Agriculture agent that demands from you any pertinent documents.
Now as to the rules: here is what the State of Minnesota says you need:
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/18B.37

There is no mention of an MSDS, an SDS, nor even having the product label at what I found on the state level. Now if the Dept of Ag has such a rule, I didn't find it.

The internet is a wonderful place in which we can all assume the other person is implying whatever we want as long as it proves or assists our own position. I do it and it ain’t right but it’s hard not to do.

You are correct in the State of MN not requiring MSDS, SDS or even labels for some reason but my “required” was going towards the EMS teams wanting them available. I don’t convey that well and you assumed I was trying to spout some crap about what I needed to do as an applicator as far as the state is concerned. I’m aware of what the rules and regs are. I’ve been a licensed applicator for almost two decades. Not trying to imply I know every single in and out but I do my damndest to keep anyone with a clipboard on the farm for as little time as possible.

If you wish to continue the debate on this topic, I suggest you enlighten us all, and I will happily concede your point if you can produce the documentation.

Nothing to produce so nothing to concede. Again with the internet pushing everyone towards being nit picky in every little aspect when we have no great way to express things like we do in person. This would have been a 60 second conversation in person because I’d have immediately said “no, I keep them in the cab in case I’m incapacitated and the EMS team wants to know what they’re dealing with” and we would have cracked another beer and moved on.

 

[pdqdl]

Should have said required by the local EMS teams here. Likely not “required” but when they say they want to know what they’re dealing with that seems to fall under the requirement category for me. By “nothing else” I didn’t mean no other info or books, just no other MSDS sheets than what I’m spraying at the time.

That works for me.