Tree Morphogenesis book 1 - free deownload - seeking feedback

[Tree Morphogene]

Who publishes a book without anyone verifying your research. Post your qualifications againn so we can all see.

Hi, missed this. best place to start would be my Linkedin page

That has all of my current projects, my professional history, qualifications and some of the range of enterprises I am involved in.

 

[jefflovstrom]

opcorn: What is your ISA Cert.#.?
Jeff :msp_confused:

 

[Pelorus]

Hi, missed this. best place to start would be my Linkedin page

That has all of my current projects, my professional history, qualifications and some of the range of enterprises I am involved in.

I'm undecided if you are the real deal or not, in spite of your ISA Arb Cert. (and yes, I checked, lol). Have you asked yourself: "what happens if in 5 or 10 years some of these theories turn out to be at best innocuous, or at worst, injurious"? You are disseminating information that you believe is correct, primarily on the basis of your own observations. So did the originators of practices such as installing drain tubes to treat wetwood, or cavity filling, or topping trees.

Even if you are sincere, I think you are at least somewhat misguided in asking for our thoughts on barn door construction while the horse is running amuck.

 

[Tree Morphogene]

Have you asked yourself: "what happens if in 5 or 10 years some of these theories turn out to be at best innocuous, or at worst, injurious"? You are disseminating information that you believe is correct, primarily on the basis of your own observations. .

I am simply trying to describe what I believe to be the most sensitive and sympathetic for of tree care that I can imagine, based on my long term study of how tree's do it.

That is, the best I can imagine right now.

"State of the art" is a contemporary saying because as you rightly say, in 10 years it will have evolved further.

I am confident however that some of the aspects of the conceptual model I am introducing in this book, will still be part of the evolved conceptual model in 10 years time and once you have read it on Monday, you will have an informed opinion on that likelyhood too.

And in answer to the next question, "do I think this is state of the art"? Yes, I do.

 

[Tree Morphogene]

opcorn: What is your ISA Cert.#.?
Jeff :msp_confused:

UI-0372a

 

[Pelorus]

Using buzz words like "sympathetic" and "sensitive" to describe chain saw surgical limb amputations / reductions seems a tad disingenuous. Like a dentist asking you "are you ok" as he mangles you. In the case of trees requiring specific indicators of help to keep them intact (things such as cabling, bracing, props) I think the literature on the subject is well documented, thorough. Perhaps even unequivocal, aside from static vs dynamic debates.
It is a different matter entirely, IMO, to look at a mature tree and say that you can improve it's longevity / appearance by making it conform to your aesthetic viewpoint. Especially on the (sole?) basis of having made observations over the years of what a tree should look like!

 

[Tree Morphogene]

It is a different matter entirely, IMO, to look at a mature tree and say that you can improve it's longevity / appearance by making it conform to your aesthetic viewpoint. Especially on the (sole?) basis of having made observations over the years of what a tree should look like!

I make no such claims.

I can reduce a tree sympathetically by using the same strategy that trees have evolved.

That co-incidentally results in a subtly smaller and still naturalistic appearance.

In the book I hope that i make the case that what looks right, is right and the reason that is so reliable is in Chapter 9.

 

[Ed Roland]

I downloaded the book free off Amazon Prime several days ago. Thank you. Its an interesting read. The bit about frequency oscillations and also the authors opinions about cabling/bracing.

Goethe, Raimbault et al, defined stages of tree morphology long ago. How does RVT differ from Neville Fays retrenchment pruning?

We are trained to prune back to what Collin Bashford dubs "areas of vitality" with several caveats, one being a maximum critical diameter (Gilman). Does RVT take into account the length of time internal anatomy is exposed?

 

[jefflovstrom]

I make no such claims.

I can reduce a tree sympathetically by using the same strategy that trees have evolved.

That co-incidentally results in a subtly smaller and still naturalistic appearance.

In the book I hope that i make the case that what looks right, is right and the reason that is so reliable is in Chapter 9.

I think it is interesting how trees survived without out us arborists for all these years!!!!
Jeff :cool2:

 

[Tree Morphogene]

I downloaded the book free off Amazon Prime several days ago. Thank you. Its an interesting read. The bit about frequency oscillations and also the authors opinions about cabling/bracing.

Morphogene, Goethe and Raimbault defined stages of tree morphology long ago. How does RVT differ from Neville Fays retrenchment pruning?

We are trained to prune back to what Collin Bashford dubs "areas of vitality" with several caveats, one being a maximum critical diameter (Gilman). Does RVT take into account the length of time internal anatomy is exposed?

Hi Ed

Thank you for reading and I am relieved that you found it interesting.

You forget Leonardo 500 years ago. There have been many notional models for tree anatomy over the years.

You may notice that i have published links on my website to works by or related to Alan Turing and his The Chemical basis For Morphogenesis where he references Goethe and postulates the triggers for Morphogenesis in plants, well I think that my work closely describes some of the factors that precipitate the orchestrated succession of growth phase changes, effectively the triggers for Morphogenesis, in most (but not all) trees.

If that process has been described and explained before, in plain language or academic papers, I haven''t seen it

Because they are passive reactive processes, the triggers are not internalised, they are in fact just reactions that happen as a result of predictable but somewhat random, external stimuli.

I'm really not sure what retrenchment pruning is so i can't comment.

I do think I know what Reduction Via Thinning is and how to reliably define it and now having read my book, so do you.

So, do you think that it closely describes the growth strategy that most trees have evolved in common, and can Reduction Via Thinning be accurately described as Simulated Wind Pruning?



"Does RVT take into account the length of time internal anatomy is exposed?"

Yes, but your question has me wondering where it is mentioned.

Where it might seem at odds is where pruning can include some larger wounds in lower growth phase changes but there is a decision making process that an Arborist can employ so as to work out in a tree, with creative interactions with their groundsman what they need to do to effect the subtle reduction of the specified % by a mixture of means and potentially, making cuts to a range of different growth phase changes.

That is the purest form but RVT can be limited to work in narrow and defined bands of growth phase changes and of course if those narrow specified band of growth phase changes are close to the outer edges of the tree, the resulting wounds might be more numersous (to achieve the desired % RVT with reasonable accuracy) but each would be smaller and so will occlude in less time.

Here's the real issue though, aversion to wounds, and decay and a myriad of other things that can happen and might notionally hurt and even eventually condemn a tree. The reason I am not necessarily always choosing the smallest wounds, is because branch architecture is variable and an Arborists options need also to be somewhat variable but still need to be clearly defined with boundaries and communicated.

Then of course Trees with defects can be managed into the ground by this method, reducing transferred wind loads and changing the mathematical likelyhood of total failure even for relatively light % RVT because the tree seems to get a measurable benefit from it the practical meaning of which is that the defect will have structural loadings reduced and in the process the subject tree gains the appearance and character and appeal of more advanced age.

Were you at all intrigued by the suggestions implicit if the law of diminishing returns really does apply to trees resonance frequency of their oscillations in wind and how they seem to change respective to the relative % RVT applied? And I hold my hand up here, this needs more testing in the field, by Arborists.....

 

[Tree Morphogene]

I think it is interesting how trees survived without out us arborists for all these years!!!!
Jeff :cool2:

Jeff please don't get me wrong, I'm not fiercely advocating RVT.

I am suggesting that it is a better way to define and arrange for tree care to be done, and is more sensitive to how trees are designed, than other techniques prescribed to manage trees where some form of size management has been identified as desirable.

I'm with you, we changed the context when our population boomed and then the legal blame/claim pressures lean directly on trees with defects, through Arborists who are asked to risk their Professional Indemnity by hazarding a guess. Such guesses will always err on the cautious and trees will be removed or trimmed in various ways, all of which will reduce structural loadings.

If in doubt do nowt.

Well, I hope that i have described the next best thing to nowt

(nowt = "Cheshire" for "nothing")

You seem to be saying "Nowt's better than Nowt" and in an ideal world where tree care is concerned, I agree.

We aren't in an ideal world and the pressures on ancient trees are very real and pressing THROUGH US.

 

[jefflovstrom]

Jeff please don't get me wrong, I'm not fiercely advocating RVT.

I am suggesting that it is a better way to define and arrange for tree care to be done, and is more sensitive to how trees are designed, than other techniques prescribed to manage trees where some form of size management has been identified as desirable.

I'm with you, we changed the context when our population boomed and then the legal blame/claim pressures lean directly on trees with defects, through Arborists who are asked to risk their Professional Indemnity by hazarding a guess. Such guesses will always err on the cautious and trees will be removed or trimmed in various ways, all of which will reduce structural loadings.

If in doubt do nowt.

Well, I hope that i have described the next best thing to nowt

(nowt = "Cheshire" for "nothing")

You seem to be saying "Nowt's better than Nowt" and in an ideal world where tree care is concerned, I agree.

We aren't in an ideal world and the pressures on ancient trees are very real and pressing THROUGH US.

Haven't you heard?!
I am the bully here!! arg!!!!
Seriously tho, Will I get CEU's if I read it and how many CEU's will I get?
Are you suggesting that we stray from our credential's?
Obviously, I am not a bully.
Jeff

 

[TheJollyLogger]

Thank god for google translatee e

Lot's of big words in this post, so I set google translate to translate from the queen's english to texan. It spit out "Topping is bad. It is much better for the tree to make smaller cuts reducing and thinning the tree through proper pruning practices than to just hack away at the sum #####.

Just to check the translation I reversed it and typed in bull ####, and it spit out " bovine anally excreted fecal matter" so I think the translator's working.

I'm not saying you might not have some good points, but good lord buddy, simplify your message. It's honestly painful to read.

 

[Tree Morphogene]

Lot's of big words in this post, so I set google translate to translate from the queen's english to texan.

I'm not saying you might not have some good points, but good lord buddy, simplify your message. It's honestly painful to read.

I hear Ya.

If you review after reading the book on Monday, it may make more sense. I hope so anyway. or as they say round here "There's nowt down fer you lad"!

Let me reassure you that the book is in plain English but if I get asked technical questions I will try to give whatever technical answers I have and unlike the book, I may get it right and communicate what i mean effectively, or not because when all is said and done, I'm still exploring the whole thing myself.

I.m a contractor and a pragmatist like you no doubt so it's all applied in the field real world solutions including what you translated even though it maybe didn't sound like it. Keep translating and I will try to explain as well as I am able!

 

[imagineero]

Anybody remember that guy who used to use very controversial 'tree regeneration' techniques, think he was from the uk also? Wrote a book too. He 'regenerated' ok trees that were in very bad condition an slated to e removed by doing simulated wind pruning. The technique was cutting half way through major limbs, then tearing them off by pulling them down with a vehicle causing big tear outs. It was well documented and photographed. Can't remember the name

 

[Pelorus]

The goldfish outgrows his bowl, so you get him a bigger bowl. The tree grows too large for it's allotted place in the cookie cutter neighbourhood (or the pesky neighbours start complaining about it) so you morphosubdue it into an aesthetically pleasing smaller version. (Which will try it's damnedest to grow bigger again...I think I grasp the gist of this Morpho stuff now.

 

[Pelorus]

Anybody remember that guy who used to use very controversial 'tree regeneration' techniques, think he was from the uk also? Wrote a book too. He 'regenerated' ok trees that were in very bad condition an slated to e removed by doing simulated wind pruning. The technique was cutting half way through major limbs, then tearing them off by pulling them down with a vehicle causing big tear outs. It was well documented and photographed. Can't remember the name

Quercus the Barbarian?

 

[Pelorus]

"Natural Fracture Pruning Techniques and Coronet Cuts"
by Neville Fay

Takes morphozapping a tree to a different (but parallel) realm.
I think Neville is the Barbarian you were thinking about, Shaun.

 

[Tree Morphogene]

so you morphosubdue it into an aesthetically pleasing smaller version. (Which will try it's damnedest to grow bigger again...I think I grasp the gist of this Morpho stuff now.

Actually they DON't seem to try their damnedest to grow bigger!

At least, not for a few years and in that time the growth seems lateral and consolidating rather than expansive and exploratory.

That is perhaps evidence of the type of growth being modified by the action and the influence seems to persist. They are "Morphosubdued" as you wonderfully imagineered.

Conversely if I prune more than 25% RVT, I have noticed an epicormic response and the higher the relative % the more pronounced the epicormic response.

For that reason, as an alternative to pollarding, I have used RVT of over 40% as a less extreme alternative to re-pollarding, thinning the co-dominant leaders and by stressing the tree through the loss of leaf so that it has to sprout epicormics from the old pollard point, and therefore recycling it's own branches without ever removing all of the branches. Clients like that.

Ok, RVT as an alternative to pollarding is brutal butt still it is more aesthetically sensitive than pollarding.

 

[Tree Morphogene]

Seriously tho, Will I get CEU's if I read it and how many CEU's will I get?
Are you suggesting that we stray from our credential's?
Jeff

Hi Jeff

You raise an interesting point. Recently I asked ISA to consider this book and ascribe CEU's to me for writing it.

Fortunately I had attended enough events anyway so I didn't use if for this re-certification but I wondered two things.

How many CEU's should I be able to claim for writing it?

And how many CEU's should each reader be able to claim for reading it?

Stray from our credentials? No, but credentials have to remain relevant and up to the minute too. otherwise they become less relevant.