Trouble cutting notches

[mikecross23]

I removed a pine a few days ago and had an extremely hard time making notches to bomb the stick. Not more than 3" into the trunk my saw started to bind. The trunk's diameter was plenty thick to support it's weight so the bar shouldn't have pinched. It was a battle for every notch to be cut. I had to send down my climbing saw and use a bigger saw and even then every cut felt as if it were binding. The tree was real twisty, almost like a cork screw. Would that have been my problem? Chains were plenty sharp too.

-Mike-

 

[mikecross23]

Let me add. . .

This was the first time I've had this problem. My guess would be b/c the grain of the wood was so twisty it made for hard cutting. Bucking the trunk after it was on the ground went fine. Anyone know what I'm talking about?

-Mike-

 

[TREETX]

I think you said it wasn't this, but if one side of the chain is sharper or at a different angle,.......

Were they new chains?

 

[treeslayer]

Mike,
Check your bar, is it worn down? It only only takes a small edge of excess metal to bog down a saw, especially a small climbing saw. but if you pulled up a different saw, same problem?

I've noticed something about pines and the sap, too slowing em down.

maybe you run echo's?

 

[mikecross23]

Originally posted by treeslayer
Mike,
Check your bar, is it worn down? It only only takes a small edge of excess metal to bog down a saw, especially a small climbing saw. but if you pulled up a different saw, same problem?
I've noticed something about pines and the sap, too slowing em down.
maybe you run echo's?

Yeah, Yeah, Yeah. . . My climbing saw is a top handle echo.

Practically brand new setup though, no nicks or burrs on the bar. Same problem while trying to use a heavy @ss Stihl 029. This is not that big of a problem considering this is the first time it has happened, but I am just curious as to why that tree was so hard to put a notch in.

TREETX,
They weren't new chains but they were freshly sharpened by the same place that always does my chains. Never had a problem w/ their sharpening. They cut normal on a straight cut, but while coming down for the top part of the notch it was heck.

Thanks for the thoughts,
-Mike-

 

[treeclimber165]

I'm not picking on you, but it sounds like operator error. I know that when my bar binds on me, it is usually because I'm not in a good position to make the cut and I'm applying side pressure on the saw without realizing it.
Next time- pull the saw out, take a deep breath, get in a comfortable position, and make the cut without pushing or pulling on the saw. I've seen you in a tree and I know you are capable of getting where you need to be in order to make the cut.

 

[Tim Gardner]

Most likely it was the way the tree had grown. You did say it corkscrewed right.

 

[TREETX]

I had this problem last week when removing a 24" birch in Germany. Of course, the saw was a Bosch and the power cord was pulling on it a bit.........



No pines here. I think they need soil to grow?

 

[mikecross23]

Originally posted by treeclimber165
I'm not picking on you, but it sounds like operator error. I know that when my bar binds on me, it is usually because I'm not in a good position to make the cut and I'm applying side pressure on the saw without realizing it.

I repositioned several times, was careful to start the cuts straight and even moved a few feet down to try in different spots. It was weird but no biggie really. Just wore me out having to force the cuts.

-Mike-

 

[mikecross23]

Originally posted by Tim Gardner
Most likely it was the way the tree had grown. You did say it corkscrewed right.

Yup, it was a curvey SOB!

 

[treesr]

I have experienced the same problem . I put it down to the very steep angle I use on my face cuts (generally) and this causing greater friction because of the grain and angle of the cut - am I just dreaming?

 

[Greg]

I've had the roller tip of my bar lock up because of all the sap, that would be my guess on a pine.
Greg

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

The first thing I would look at is the chain. It could have too much hook on the side plate of the cutter, or the depth gauge may be too low. If the chain is set up wrong it could cut ok in a crosscut but not in an angled cut.
Once a chain cuts at an angle other than a straight crosscut, it takes much more power because, in part, the top plate of the cutter starts to do the actual cutting of the fiber. The cutters work much more efficiently when the side plate is doing the fiber cutting.
This means proper chain sharpening is critical, and power is also important. Have you opened up the exaust on your echo? Doing this might add enough power to overcome the shortcomings of the less than perfect chain.
Your shop may have had a kid running the grinder and not done such a great job. Chain grinding is tedious work and is usually left to the low man in the shop.
Take some time and learn exactly how a chain works, and learn how to just look at a chain to tell if all the angles are correct. For example, grab your saw by the bar and put your eye up to the tip. Now look down the top of the bar and notice the cutters and the depth gauges. If you are holding the saw correctly, you will clearly be able to see the height of both sets of depth gauges relative to the cutters. On and old chain, you might see one whole side of cutters higher than the other, or depth gauges too high or to low. Look at a new chain to see what normal is.
Another common problem area is the side plate. Watch someone file a saw chain, if they concetrate on the top plate while they file, they could be totally screwing up the side plate angle. The side plate is ten times more critical than the top plate, so this is where their attention may need to be. This is the easiest angle to screw up when grinding too, as well as the least understood by the high school kids that may end up doing the grinding.
Good luck!

 

[kf_tree]

a guy i worked with once told me he was trying to make a flush cut on a twisted cork screw willow stump. the bar and chain got stuck so bad they took the power head off and left the bar and chain in the stump.

 

[hillbilly]

A little off topic, but I'm a bit curious.
You say you have your chains sharpened at a shop.
How do you make that work practically, how many
sets of chains do you have rotationg for every saw ?
Do the shop make different raker depths for you for
different jobs ?

About the cutting problem, did the saws cut straight or did
the cuts bend like a banana ?

 

[mikecross23]

Originally posted by hillbilly
A little off topic, but I'm a bit curious.
You say you have your chains sharpened at a shop.
How do you make that work practically, how many
sets of chains do you have rotationg for every saw ?
Do the shop make different raker depths for you for
different jobs ?

I don't do as much work as most of you guys b/c I'm still only working on the weekends. Depending on the jobs on any given day I like to keep 2 - 4 sharp chains for each saw ready to just switch out when time. The shop has 4 grinders and I would ASSUME each grinder is set up for different pitches/raker depths. I never pay real close attention to every chain, but for the most part they all seem uniform. The sharpener dude is a middle aged black guy that has been there for 17 years. The owner says he's good but heck I honestly don't fully understand the logistics of a chains cutting. I have read up on some past threads re: this issue though, that helped.

About the cutting problem, did the saws cut straight or did
the cuts bend like a banana ?

The 2 saws I used on this tree both cut straight, they just bound for no obvious reason. I know what you're talking about though when the saws cut bends like a banana and binds. Wasn't that though.

I've been wanting to get a good grinder, but don't know if I will actually take the time to do it. It's just so easy to leave my chains at the saw store and say, DO IT! I need to hone in on my hand sharpening skills.

-Mike-

 

[mikecross23]

I really messed that last post up. Most of what I wrote is bold and appears to be writen by Hillbilly.

I've read past threads about chain sharpening, but heck, why not bring it up again. I know a few of ya'll preferences but tell me some more. Who prefers hand sharpening, who likes grinders and who just pays to have them sharpened? Methods, tecniques, and tools used? What up folks?

-Mike-

 

[kf_tree]

how much do they charge to sharpen a chain? do they charge by drive links?

i feel when being taught to use a saw. you, should not even be allowed to start the saw until you can sharpen it. i'm amazed how people who say they have been around the business 5,7, 10 years and still can't sharpen a saw properly by hand.

i would feel like a home owner if i took my chains to be sharpened.

it's like a chef going to burger king to get his steak cooked.

 

[mikecross23]

$4 per chain no matter what size. I started out hand sharpening them but got lazy and sloppy. The shop I take them to is very convenient for me to just stop in. I have enough on my plate as is and don't want to take the extra time each week to sharpen my own chains. $4 a pop is worth it to me plus the owners sister gives me discounts!!!

-Mike-

 

[hillbilly]

I've never seen one of those grinders, do they work on
the raker gauges as well ?
There are alot of old nails and various junk in many of the trees we cut down, so sharpening a few times a day isn't unusual.
I would recommend a combination gauges (see attached pic) and hand files. Mounting a vise (correct word?) on your truck might
be a good idea as well.
What I meant by different raker gauges, depth gauges, was that
when cutting poplar or similar very soft wood, you might wanna
file down these a bit more, to make the cutting a bit more
aggressive.
Even if you decide to keep letting the shop do your sharpening,
it's a good thing to know as much as possible about the most
important parts fo the saw, the bar and the chain.

It does seem a bit lazy to not sharpen your own chains, but then
again I know some people that will throw away the chains
and put on new ones, whenever they needed sharpening.
Now that's lazy !