Trouble cutting notches

[Climbing mike]

Belive it or not but I only use my chains once .I put only new chains on, when they get dull I take them off and put on another new one. I have been doing this for about 10 years, I have tried in the past sharpening my on chains and several attemps letting other people sharpen them. I have found it alot more convent to use only new chains. Be careful what you cut into dont hit the dirt. I have put on a new chain and in a few cuts hit something in the tree but that is not the norm. I look at all the time I save from sharpening them or taking them and paying to have them sharpened, to me it works better. I found I can work many jobs on the same chain, It probably averages to about 2000 to 3000 dollars of work completed to 2 chains. One for the climbing saw one for the bigger saw. So 2 chains cost me about 23 dollars for both out of 2 to 3 thousand dollars made is not much of a waste. I have probably 2 to 3 hundred chain laying around that have only been used once, I give some of them to my friend that alawys sharpens his chains. Sharpen chains never seem to cut as fast, last as long, or cut as straight as new. This is just my preference on shrpened chains .

Mike

 

[treeclimber165]

Mike-
I am astonished and flabbergasted. I have no idea how to respond to your post. Simply amazing.

 

[Crofter]

I feel a bit like treeclimber. Do you guys ever change your bars or just keep keep changing chains. With the crooked cut in the curly grain pine, maybe the chain flipped upside down in the bar groove. That will make em cut funny.

Frank

 

[monkeypuzzle]

How does flabbergasted feel?


I HATE grease! Going on 20 years now in this bizz and I still can't hand-sharpen a chain, don't won't to. Mechanics is not my thing.

 

[hillbilly]

Here is the pic of the handy combination gauge Mike

 

[mikecross23]

Thanks for the good info Hillbilly! I don't understand the picture of the combination guage though. How does it work?

Right now I don't have the time to sharpen my chains. Working 8-5 M-F, estimates after that and tree work on Sat. and Sun. When I make the switch to full time tree work I should be able to do my own sharpening.

-Mike-

 

[Tom Dunlap]

After learning how to use the Pferd filing tool I sold my electric chain grinder. I'c been using it for about 20 years. Hand filing with the Pferd tool is easy!

I've had cuts get whacked out because:

the chain is loose
chain is not being oiled enough-clean the bar holes
bar rails are full of caked up debris-remove chain and scrape out crud from rails

Tom

 

[mikecross23]

Thanks Tom. Can you tell me where to find the Pferd filing tool?

-Mike-

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Climbing Mike,
Depending on what kind of chain you use, I might want to get on your list of people to send those used chains off to. I'll even pay shipping.
To be honest, I can sharpen a saw in about the same amount of time it takes to change it out. It will also cut faster once I'm done with it.

 

[mikecross23]

Originally posted by Mike Maas
To be honest, I can sharpen a saw in about the same amount of time it takes to change it out. It will also cut faster once I'm done with it.

That's what TC165 says, or had said in a post a long time ago. I guess I should just do it and quit wasting my $4 per chain.

Mike, do you use some sort of a guide to keep the file straight, or is the motion embeded for ever?

-Mike-

 

[Crofter]

Simple filing guide

Mikecross23:

There are some simple file guides that clamp onto the proper file size that will hold the file at the correct height and give a pretty good visual indication of correct angles. For less than the price of one chain you can get all the hardware necessary to file your chains. You won't win races with them but they will be workable. There are also complicated and pricey options if you want all the bells and whistles. Unless you are the type that especially enjoys the fun of learning by yourself , find someone who would gladly get you started.

If you dont file on the saw there is too much temptation to keep on cutttting with a chain that has been dulled. This then quickly results in ruining both the bar and chain so that no matter who sharpens the chain afterwards, it still wont perform properly.

If you cant sharpen your own saw you are a bit like a soldier that has to ask someone else to reload his rifle.

Frank

 

[treeclimber165]

I never had anyone show me how to file a chain until I had been doing tree work for several years. I also started out paying to get my chains sharpened. After recognising the dilemma that Frank spoke of, I bought one of those $35 12v dremel-type sharpeners. It had the guide marks on it and I started learning the proper angles to sharpen. I finally got to work with a guy who was proficient with a hand file and watched him intensely. I realized that his method was a lot more efficient than the 12v grinder and he could get a better edge also. I finally commited myself to practicing hand filing until I got it right. After a few months I got pretty good and have been getting better ever since. That was about 12 years ago.

I use about 1 chain per month on my climbing saw and a chain on my 026 lasts 2 months. They get touched up on an average of every tank or two of fuel, and I rarely have to take more than 3 strokes per tooth. My chains are always razor sharp and rarely need tensioning. If I have difficulty in a cut it's usually because I hit some hidden metal in the wood, or else the wood is cracked and twisted where it pinches the bar.

 

[mikecross23]

Originally posted by treeclimber165
My chains are always razor sharp and rarely need tensioning.

Yeah, Brian ain't lyin'! I used his climbing saw to make a few hacks at some small underbrush a month or so ago. I looked at your chain and sure 'nuff, it was sharper than mine after the grinder goes to town. I guess the way to go is to make it a habbit to just stroke it whenever I have a minute or two.

-Mike-

 

[Tim Gardner]

Great Advice Brian! I “wood” like to add that even a saw with a new bar and chain will not cut to its full potential unless you change the sprocket or ring. As a saw is used the sprocket/ring wear along with the chain. The two will wear and match each other but as soon as you place a new or different chain on you have a mismatch in gears if you will. When I tell guys I climb for about this I get either a blank stare or laughed at. I change the sprocket or ring out and they shut up because I make cuts much faster. Even an 020 will start to slow down and bog in hardwoods when the sprocket gets worn. Spend that extra $7 each month or two when you guys buy a new chain and get home to your supper a lot sooner.

I think one of the tree care publications did an article on how maintaining your saws will not only increase production but will save money on gas, labor, etc. a few years back. Anyone remember reading this and know what magazine it was?

 

[Stumper]

ClimbingMike, I would like to join Mike Maas on your list for recieving unsharpened chains!

MikeCross, Extremely twisted grain can cause some funky things. I have experienced what you spoke of with a sharp chain-but only on a worn bar. The chain seemed to have enough slop to try to follow the grain and get itself in trouble. The other place I've experienced binding with a good chain was in large cuts on green palms-the cut fibers seemed to just 'pop' out into the kerf and bind the bar.

 

[geofore]

sprockets

I'm with Tim on changing the worn sprocket, a new chain has to strech out to fit a worn sprocket and therein lies the poor performance. You are trying to cut and the chain is wasting energy trying to strech to fit the worn sprocket. It is making a mess of the new chain, it only takes about .004" wear to make a difference. As to the binding in pine my biggest problem is the wind blowing causes the tree to twist down on the bar and pinch, as the wind slows the bar frees up and the cut can be continued.

 

[treemd]

Absolutely agree with filing saws by hand. I like a chain better after it has been filed once by me than I do out of the box. Sprockets - I was taught to keep three chains on the go at a time, all started at the same time. Rotate them regularly, and when all three are done, so is the sprocket. That way, the chain is stretched/worn the same rate as the sprocket. With three chains, there is the added benefit of not having to shut down right away to file after you hit the second $@%$# nail in the same piece of wood!
Codie

 

[mikecross23]

Alright fellas, I tried the hand filing thing. I haven't cut w/ it yet but the edges feel sharper than the chains that have been put on a grinder. I just used a bare file w/ a handle, no guide tools or anything. It was slow but I'm sure the motion will come easier the more I do it. Any tips other than the obviouse of keeping the file straight? Should I twist the file as I pull/push?

-Mike-

 

[treeclimber165]

Some people twist, others do not. The important thing to remember is to make every tooth the same. Also, keep in mind that you are sharpening the side of the tooth as well as the top. The side does most of the cutting.

 

[Stumper]

Mike, I posted some stuff on hand filing a year or so ago and wound up answering a couple of emails about it . I saved this-I hope it helps.

This may be old hat to lots of folks but it was new to me and to my dad who has been sharpening saws for 35+ years. I find it best to sharpen one side of the chain at a time. With the chain tensioned properly on the bar and everything held securely start filing with the trailing edge of the tooth on your side of the bar. File with the file held at an angle of 10degrees or so. You want the file elevated those 10 degrees at its rear so that you are filing down and away from yourself. Going from trailing edge to point of the tooth. If you get the angle too extreme you will find that you dish out the top cutting surface into a curve rather than it running a straight(though angled) line(slight dishing won't hurt but if it's very much you lose performance and edge-holding ability.).By the way you are maintaining an angle of 30-35 degrees to the direction of chain travel. 30 degrees is the way most chain is set up new. This is best for saws under 45cc. Big saws(over 65cc) will work best with the greater 35 degree angle. In between take your pick. So far this is fairly standard-file until the tooth is sharp. NOW. To finish the tooth. Turn your file to almost perpendicular to the bar/direction of travel.Dispense with the up/down 10degree angle(flat across the top of the bar now) File the side plate of the tooth DEEPENING the gullet to the bottom of the sideplate. You are not trying to put a deep hook into the tooth rather you want a SLIGHT hook that extends all the way to the bottom of the cutting portion of the side plate. Sharpen all teeth as evenly as possible. If you are right handed you will probably find the left side of the chain awkward with a tendency to jump the file out of the tooth and bang your knuckle into the chain. Wear gloves , go slow and be careful. This is easy to demonstrate but clumsy to describe. If you can understand my attempt you should find your saws cutting 10-20% better than machine sharpened. May God bless, Justin

Their are some pictures in one of the archived threads-I don't remember which one.