Troybilt LS27 Old style detent control Valve Rebuild Help Needed /Ball Bearings can not put together

[stiggymatta]

Hello
I have a troybilt LS27 ton splitter with energy valve with return detent
I replaced seals (orings) and balls went everywhere;

I too have the dreaded flying balls when I went to replace the o-ring seals due to leak
I have all the parts just can not figure how to compress the spring with ball bearings to get it to catch back in the groove
Can anyone share the trick to doing this Please
is there a video that shows how it is done
very frustrating to say the least
I am usually very good at putting things together to get them working again.
my Valve is working fine I just have no return detent (my hand is killing me holding both directions
Thanks so much Look forward to any and all answers/

 

[djones]

Having just done my own let me pass along this little trick. Place a little grease on each of the 7/32 ball bearings, place the collar with the holes in it on the valve, place the spring in the center, place the 5/16 ball bearing on the spring, place the small bearings in the holes of the collar, the grease should hold them in place for the moment. Now comes the fun part. Take a 1/4" drive extension of 6" or a 1/4" drive handle and put a 1/4" or smaller socket on the extension. Take the lock collar with the grooves on top (internal) and ease it over top of the small bearings and just hold pressure on them, don't push them down just yet, push down on the 5/16" bearing with the extension, compressing the spring and at the same time press down on the grooved collar. Once the collar is all the way down release the pressure on the extension and you are back in business. This all works best if the valve is positioned with the detent on top so you can apply the needed pressure. It took me a few tries to figure out the procedure but it works, just don't let your bearings fly. I lost 2 of the 7/32 and the 5/16. Bicycle shops carry the 7/32 and Ace hardware carries the 5/16. FYI. Good luck

 

[stiggymatta]

Having just done my own let me pass along this little trick. Place a little grease on each of the 7/32 ball bearings, place the collar with the holes in it on the valve, place the spring in the center, place the 5/16 ball bearing on the spring, place the small bearings in the holes of the collar, the grease should hold them in place for the moment. Now comes the fun part. Take a 1/4" drive extension of 6" or a 1/4" drive handle and put a 1/4" or smaller socket on the extension. Take the lock collar with the grooves on top (internal) and ease it over top of the small bearings and just hold pressure on them, don't push them down just yet, push down on the 5/16" bearing with the extension, compressing the spring and at the same time press down on the grooved collar. Once the collar is all the way down release the pressure on the extension and you are back in business. This all works best if the valve is positioned with the detent on top so you can apply the needed pressure. It took me a few tries to figure out the procedure but it works, just don't let your bearings fly. I lost 2 of the 7/32 and the 5/16. Bicycle shops carry the 7/32 and Ace hardware carries the 5/16. FYI. Good luck

Djones Thank you
I pretty much tried that and every time I pushed down the whole valve rod went into the down position and left no room for the spring to compress. I than tried to hold the detent handle in the up position and do it again.
I had a hard time getting the inner spring to compress again nor would the collar slide down onto the smaller balls/
When it is all said and done, is the larger ball under the smaller balls
trying to figure what the hell holds the balls in there /
I have taken the darn thing apart about 25 times now
I even went as far as to remove the whole rod thinking I could compress the spring in a vise or something
Did you use your hands to compress the collar down while pushing the center Ball down at the same time
I tried that I could not get it to move , I ever got my giant C-clamp out and tried that.

 

[djones]

when the rod goes down you can still compress the spring. When it's complete, the small bearings are on top and the large bearing below them. Check to be sure that there is nothing in the hole where the spring sits. insert the spring and the ball with the collar with the hole in it in place and push down with an extension to see if the ball goes below the holes in the collar. It just has to be enough for the small bearings to pop in place and hold the 5/16 bearing. The small bearings are held in place by the spring tension against the 5/16 bearing and are allowed to move into the grooved collar by the lever. I only needed hand pressure to get the job done. once the spring is compressed, the balls slide over top of the bearing and into the grooved collar. Be sure the grooves are on top away from the bearings. The shallow groove is neutral and the deeper groove is detent. You must use a small socket that will fit into the opening where the 5/16 bearing is and it must be tapered like a 3/32 or 1/4 socket so that the bearings have a place to fall into when you push the bearing down. If not the grooved collar will not slide down. FYI, it cost me only $1.25 for the bearings I needed. That included an extra set just in case.

 

[stiggymatta]

when the rod goes down you can still compress the spring. When it's complete, the small bearings are on top and the large bearing below them. Check to be sure that there is nothing in the hole where the spring sits. insert the spring and the ball with the collar with the hole in it in place and push down with an extension to see if the ball goes below the holes in the collar. It just has to be enough for the small bearings to pop in place and hold the 5/16 bearing. The small bearings are held in place by the spring tension against the 5/16 bearing and are allowed to move into the grooved collar by the lever. I only needed hand pressure to get the job done. once the spring is compressed, the balls slide over top of the bearing and into the grooved collar. Be sure the grooves are on top away from the bearings. The shallow groove is neutral and the deeper groove is detent. You must use a small socket that will fit into the opening where the 5/16 bearing is and it must be tapered like a 3/32 or 1/4 socket so that the bearings have a place to fall into when you push the bearing down. If not the grooved collar will not slide down. FYI, it cost me only $1.25 for the bearings I needed. That included an extra set just in case.

OK I am understanding and figured thats how the balls went
Can I ask
I install the spring than the Larger ball 1st?
Than slip in the smaller bearings as I am pushing down on the center of main ball?
Or do I put smaller ball bearings with grease on them in the smaller side holes 1st than press the larger ball down past them
(this is were I am having the problem) I can not get the Larger ball under the smaller ones while pushing down
That is why I am asking the smaller balls go in last?
Thanks I appreciate your help

 

[stiggymatta]

I think you are saying
Push the spring and large bearing down with small enough tool in diameter to still allow me to work the smaller balls intothe holes while holding the larger ball down.

 

[stiggymatta]

i have been trying to compress the ring with the groves down at the same time
maybe that is why it has not been working

 

[djones]

OK I am understanding and figured thats how the balls went
Can I ask
I install the spring than the Larger ball 1st?
Than slip in the smaller bearings as I am pushing down on the center of main ball?

I think you are saying
Push the spring and large bearing down with small enough tool in diameter to still allow me to work the smaller balls intothe holes while holding the larger ball down.

Or do I put smaller ball bearings with grease on them in the smaller side holes 1st than press the larger ball down past them
(this is were I am having the problem) I can not get the Larger ball under the smaller ones while pushing down
That is why I am asking the smaller balls go in last?
Thanks I appreciate your help

(1) INSTALL SPRING AND BEARING, (2) PLACE GREASED BEARINGS IN THE HOLES, AT THIS POINT THE 5/16 BEARING IS ON TOP OF THE SMALLER 7/32 BEARINGS, (3) SLIDE GROOVED COLLAR TO THE TOP OF THE BEARINGS AND APPLY A LITTLE PRESSURE. (4) USING YOUR PUSH ROD TOOL, PRESS DOWN ON THE 5/16 BEARING AND HOLD THE PRESSURE ON THE COLLAR AT THE SAME TIME, IF THE SOCKET YOU USE IS A 5/16 SOCKET IT WILL NOT WORK. YOU MUST USE A SMALLER SOCKET. THE BEARINGS MUST HAVE A VOID TO FALL INTO OR THE COLLAR WILL NOT DROP INTO PLACE. TO VISUALIZE THIS, PLACE THE 7/32 BEARINGS INTO THE HOLES AND SLIDE THE GROOVED COLLAR OVER TOP OF THEM. YOU WILL SEE THAT THEY MUST HAVE AT LEAST THE SEEN SPACE TO ALLOW THE COLLAR TO DROP IN. PICK YOUR PUSHING TOOL CAREFULLY. IF IT IS TOO BIG THE BEARINGS WILL NOT LET THE COLLAR DROP.

 

[djones]

Energy hydraulics has a picture of an assembled valve in cutaway or drawing. It's been a while since I looked at it. It may help you see the internal workings.

 

[backhoelover]

this might help

 

[backhoelover]

http://troybilt.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/10584/~/professional-shop-manuals


here is link to service manual

 

[backhoelover]

manual you want is at the very bottom

 

[stiggymatta]

Thank You All
I found a Video , Seems easier than what I have tried.
Great Group you guys have here.
Here is the link to the video

 

[Patrick1903]

@djones and @stiggymatta Thank you both. I had the exact issue on my TB27 splitter when I took it apart and pulled the coller up to “inspect” things. Was troubleshooting a sticking return detent. When I pulled collar up it was like a claymore went off (with much less noise). Ball bearings everywhere. Used this thread and the video link to get it reassembled. Thanks for your efforts from 8 years ago.

 

[djones]

Glad to be of help.