Trying to build custom dump/chipper/equipment trailer like Holmen Tree's

[Toddppm]

How about setting up a chipper mounted on a turntable like the bandit trailer but at the front shooting into a dump box on the truck. Then you'll have plenty of chip capacity, room on the trailer for eqpt. and logs and if needed throw wood in the box too.
Edit: Actually you wouldn't even need the turntable with being able to turn the chute just mount the chipper sideways.

I've been dreaming about converting my dump trailer into something like this pic. with a box at the front not quite so big, maybe 5 feet long and 12 ft. dump bed behind it. I think it'd make a near perfect landscape trailer that could carry a skid too. Only problem would be getting it titled at 10K GVW or less to avoid the CDL.Wonder if extending the frame on my dump trailer would still be strong enough?

 

[arbor pro]

I got a quote from a builder in NE on puting the trailer together for me. The price he quoted me included everything but mounting my chipper on the finished trailer. Here's what he spec'd out for me:

Est. length of trailer frame to be 20'
8'x8'x6' tall box on front of frame
curb side to hinge at top to dump
opening in back for blower
side dump with DC power unit
battery, cables, 12' hand set
tandem 3 1/2" cylinders
back 12' to be built above the wheels
curb side to have platform 4'x12' with steel deck
Bi-fold ramp off back for loader to load
street side to have a basic outer rail frame 4'x12'
Chipper unit would need to be mounted as required
Basic bumper pull straight hitch
2 1/2" pintle hitch, 12K drop leg Jack, spring
breakaway kit, LED lights, wiring in conduit
DC power unit enclosed in box on hitch
Colors: RED< BLACK<BLUE>GRAY
others available

I will give you pricing according to axle applications>>

3-- 7,000# spring axles elec. 16" 10ply radials
$10,950.00

3-- 7,000# Torsion axles elec. 16" 10ply radials
$11,350.00

2-- 10,000# GD spring axles elec. 215-75R 17.5 16ply singles (4)
$11,950.00

Options:
14ply tires on 16" wheels -- $350.00
gooseneck hitch -- $650.00
spare 16" wheel & mount -- $250.00
spare 17.5 wheel and mount-- $400.00

And here are some questions I asked of him along with his replies:

1) you have a 12’ deckover platform spec’d for the rear – 4’ for mini skid loader and 4’ area for chipper. What would the approx height of that deck be? The top of the trailer frame upon which the chipper currently sits is about 20” from the ground. I am a bit concerned about having it significantly higher as it will make loading the chipper more difficult (have to lift higher). A - According to the picture of the chipper it would sit about the top of the fender 35"s. A - unless part of it well sit inside the wheels
2) Will the 2 – 10k spring axles make the trailer any higher than the triple 7k axles? A - not much maybe 37"s
3) Will the 2 – 10k axles corner better than the triples? A - Usually, triples are harder on tires dragging them in short turns
4) Will the 2- 10k axles handle the weight of the trailer whether empty of chips or fully-loaded any better/same/worse than the triples would? A - probably the same
5) How much room would there be in the case of either 2- 10k axles or 3- 7k axles from the tires to the front of the frame? you may have about the length of the dumping box which is 8'L. I am looking at possibly wanting a toolbox mounted along the non-hinge side of the trailer and, if possible, to be long enough to accommodate an 8’ or 9’ gas powered pruning saw among other things. One of the photos of the holmen tree service trailer shows a toolbox that they added to the trailer after the fact… A - I can get a two door aluminum 16x13x96 and mount there for about$1,150.00. One could possibly be built under the box along the main frame stringers.
6) Just wondering why dual lift cylinders vs a scissors lift? A - Cylinders are less money, scissors is about $790 more.
7) Any idea what the total weight of the trailer would be finished (non including chipper mounted) A - guessing 5000--5500
8) Any idea what the tongue weight would be with no chips loaded in the box and with the 4500# chipper mounted on the frame and 2500# mini skid steer loaded next to it and what the tongue weight would be with 7000# of chips loaded in the box? A - with 7,000#' on back you would want a lot of that over the axles to not get the hitch to light. So as you load the box a lot of that weight will go to the hitch.
9) The bi-fold ramp – will that be built heavy enough to accommodate the 2500# skid steer plus a few more hundred pounds should I need to load it with a log in the grapple? Is there any chance that the middle hinge will rust up or get bent and cause problems down the road? possible If so, would a longer 6’ aluminum curved ramp work better? The stump grinder being loaded onto the Holmen Tree trailer is only 1100#. My skid steer is significantly heavier and I am just concerned as to whether the bi-fold ramp will hold up. I have a bifold piano-hinge ramp on a cargo carrier for my pickup and, after a few years, it rusted and bent and does not hinge right anymore. My guess is the piano hinge wasn’t strong enough and it should have been a 1” solid rod through a pipe type of hinge. A - We don't do aluminum. Why couldn't we just make a couple of ladder ramps, say 6-7' long and have them slide in under the back when stored? They would be more ridged and less likely to bend. Beings you are using a heavier skid steer I would go with a one piece ramp.
10) I would like to have a short side on the mini skid side of the platform just in case the mini skid was to slide sideways somehow. Something like a 1/4”x6” flat iron welded to the side and maybe a couple of tie down points on front and back of platform in case I want to chain it down… A - sure we can do that add about $140.00
11) The prices you spec’d – that is for a completely built and painted trailer of my color choice with only the chipper to be mounted in order to be a finished product? YES

Anyone have any more thoughts on this? It looks like a complete package will run me around $12-13k. Mounting my chipper will cost another $1k. One of my biggest concerns is his wanting to mount the chipper on a deckover frame. I'm worried it will be too tall. However, it is too long to mount sideways on a drop deck frame and, if it is mounted length-wise on a drop deck frame then it is too wide to also load the 36" mini skid next to it.

Just trying to decide if it's worth the $14k investment (not including the cost of my chipper).........??????????

 

[arbor pro]

I just emailed him three more questions...

1) What will the main trailer frame be built out of and what will the chip box be made out of (what size and gauge of steel)?
2) If the axles are placed to handle the weight of the chipper and mini skid, would it be safe to estimate that, when the chip box is loaded, approximately half of that weight would go to the hitch and half on the axles or is that incorrect?
3) Will the dual lift cylinders work as well and stand up as well as a scissors hoist or are they more prone to twisting?

 

[arbor pro]

It's fun thinking about options that improves our efficiency but I would never tie up my only chipper on such a monster trailer. I'm get my chipper in tight places that the trailer your are designing would never go. I realize you are wanting to take fewer trucks to the job site but in the end you are going to work harder and get less work done, IMO.

I typically don't try to get my chipper into tight places. That's why I have the mini skid - to forward the brush to the chipper so the chipper can stay on the street.

$14k is a lot of money and it's by no means a perfect setup. I can already see some drawbacks from having the side dump vs an end dump (can't get the chips dumped as neatly as with an end dump and need a bigger area to dump the chips in). However, i can also see the advantages to it.

 

[arbor pro]

I just emailed him three more questions...

1) What will the main trailer frame be built out of and what will the chip box be made out of (what size and gauge of steel)?
2) If the axles are placed to handle the weight of the chipper and mini skid, would it be safe to estimate that, when the chip box is loaded, approximately half of that weight would go to the hitch and half on the axles or is that incorrect?
3) Will the dual lift cylinders work as well and stand up as well as a scissors hoist or are they more prone to twisting?

Answers to questions:

1) What will the main trailer frame be built out of and what will the chip box be made out of (what size and gauge of steel)? The main frame if we go with 10K axles would go with at least a 8x2x 1/4" tube frame or something in the 15+ lb. weight. The box we use 3x2x3/16" tube for main box frames on our dumps, 3"ch cross sills on 16"c. The top box frame I would propose tubing again because of the strength, at least a 2x2. the outside sheet material would be 14ga. Normally 10ga. floors

2) If the axles are placed to handle the weight of the chipper and mini skid, would it be safe to estimate that, when the chip box is loaded, approximately half of that weight would go to the hitch and half on the axles or is that incorrect? Your probably going to be close to that.

3) Will the dual lift cylinders work as well and stand up as well as a scissors hoist or are they more prone to twisting? I have used twin cylinders on most all my dumps from 12' on up to as much as 18' length and have not had a problem. Most lifting capacities on two cylinders is 5-6ton. With only a 8' box and a lift of 7,000#'s we could get by with a single 4"x48" cylinder. The scissors are good as well only the first cost is higher because I use a 18,000 rated hoist.

 

[Bearcreek]

I was just adding up your numbers. If they are right, your trailer, with everything loaded is going to weigh 19,500 lbs. That's a lot of weight to be towing around with a one ton truck with a tag trailer, even without the back of the truck full of logs.

 

[Curbside]

You know I totally understand what your trying to do but just a word of caution. I know their is a word in German that says it the best but I cant remember how it sounds but what it means is this. "You can improve on something so much to make it so good that it becomes useless." I have been guilty of this on occassion and I have seen others do it as well.

That setup would be awesome because everything would be with you but the weight and the size of the unit will be awkward and bog you down. If your set on it maybe look into a complete aluminum trailer to keep the weight down.

 

[arbor pro]

Well, I put this idea on the back burner for the summer. I think that if I want to proceed with it, I'm going to need a bigger truck to haul the new trailer with - expecially if I also want to load logs onto the truck. Total weight will likely run upards of 26k when fully loaded. Too much for a 1 ton.

It's tough living the life of an equipment junkie - always wanting to upgrade and buy newer better stuff...

 

[VINIFIREWOOD]

Best idea I've seen yet.
One ? for ya, will your chipper fit sideways on the trailer so you could get both your mini and grinder on the rear of trailer.

 

[arbor pro]

Best idea I've seen yet.
One ? for ya, will your chipper fit sideways on the trailer so you could get both your mini and grinder on the rear of trailer.

Unfortunately, no. It's 10'-5" from infeed chute to front of the engine housing. 9' is max width if mounted sideways. I mgiht have to look at the morbarks. I think some of the older models are quite a bit shorter. Maybe I can find a good 12" cap one that will fit sideways. I know that the 9" ones will because that's what bandit and morbark use on their chipper/combo units. But, I'd like a 12" cap chipper.

 

[VINIFIREWOOD]

Don't know if this would work but somethin I've been dreamin about.
If you had a transmision mounted hyraulic pump on a pickup, like on an allison in a gm pickup, and a PTO driven chipper that would normally mount to a tractor. Could you run the chipper hyraulically with said hydraulic pump and modified hydraulic drive on the chipper? This could potentially save alot of weight and space.

 

[Bearcreek]

I had a guy tell me that he saw a bunch of davey tree trucks that had that. Doesn't seem like it would be very fuel efficient to me. It would make for a compact machine though, for sure.

 

[VINIFIREWOOD]

I had a guy tell me that he saw a bunch of davey tree trucks that had that. Doesn't seem like it would be very fuel efficient to me. It would make for a compact machine though, for sure.

Are you refering to the hydraulic operation? I would like to believe that if powered by late model diesels such as the Duramax, Powerstroke, and cummins it shouldn't be too bad on fuel.

 

[TimberMcPherson]

Unimog with PTO chipper in front and pulling big trailer at back. It is possible to overinvent the wheel. And nothing screams coolness like a mog, possibly the ultimate tough work truck.

 

[treeoperations]

a fellow arborist here in auckland has a chipper hanging on the back of his unimog and what a weapon but hes wasting 250 pto hp on a 9 inch chipper, doesnt matter if the blades are blunt though with that power haha.

as for hydrulic forget it the power loss would be far to much and the space saved by not having a motor would be taken up by a huge resivoir and cooler system or youll have a screaming pump when the air in the hot oil starts up setting everything

 

[TimberMcPherson]

a fellow arborist here in auckland has a chipper hanging on the back of his unimog and what a weapon but hes wasting 250 pto hp on a 9 inch chipper, doesnt matter if the blades are blunt though with that power haha.

as for hydrulic forget it the power loss would be far to much and the space saved by not having a motor would be taken up by a huge resivoir and cooler system or youll have a screaming pump when the air in the hot oil starts up setting everything

I thought most mogs were only 120-150hp. Have you seen that one on trademe? If i thought I could get it up the driveways my current truck does I would buy it in a heartbeat. Sadly my town is to tight for room for one. But I dreams of mogs will continue.
Great think about PTO chippers is that it keeps your engine nice and warm for the overloaded struggle home, hate thrashing my cold, overloaded little workhorse home at the end of a hard day.

 

[Bearcreek]

Are you refering to the hydraulic operation? I would like to believe that if powered by late model diesels such as the Duramax, Powerstroke, and cummins it shouldn't be too bad on fuel.

I didn't see them myself. The guy just said they ran off a pto from the truck. I would assume they were hydraulic powered pto's, but im not sure. As mentioned in an above post you lose a lot of efficiency running something off hydraulics rather than directly from the engine. I have a Morbark model 13 chipper with a cummins 4bt engine, which is basically a four cylinder version of the engine that is used in my Dodge truck. There's no way that the chipper would be as easy on fuel if it had the 6bt engine running it, let alone indirectly through a hydro pto. The advantage of having a more compact machine might outweigh that disadvantage though, not sure.

 

[treeoperations]

I thought most mogs were only 120-150hp. Have you seen that one on trademe? If i thought I could get it up the driveways my current truck does I would buy it in a heartbeat. Sadly my town is to tight for room for one. But I dreams of mogs will continue.
Great think about PTO chippers is that it keeps your engine nice and warm for the overloaded struggle home, hate thrashing my cold, overloaded little workhorse home at the end of a hard day.

most mogs in nz are ex army jobs and there under powerd pieces of ####, the guy i know up here brought his one with him from england, had to convert it to right hand drive and all that but was worth the money, they are a big unit, no room for one in wellington thats for real i struggle driving round down there in my short wheel base safari.

as for the mogs, there all the same motor but they change out fuel pumps and turbos to up the Hp, this one side dumps as the chipper hangs off its arse, up front he has a 15ton winch, said he was going to put a pto driven stumper on the front but havent seen him for while.

back to the hydrulic idea, my hydralic guy reacons u loose 15% of power at pump end and same again at the drive end so thats 30% loss which is a #### load and it wont be any more compact due to the hydralic tank and coolers as the oil would get far to hot.


i ran a hydralic stumper on my bobcat 323 and as the oil got hotter it loast power, was bloody useless in the end, so i working on a 40hp deutz motor with a direct drive cutter that i pick up with my digger haha

 

[treeoperations]

I thought most mogs were only 120-150hp. Have you seen that one on trademe? If i thought I could get it up the driveways my current truck does I would buy it in a heartbeat. Sadly my town is to tight for room for one. But I dreams of mogs will continue.
Great think about PTO chippers is that it keeps your engine nice and warm for the overloaded struggle home, hate thrashing my cold, overloaded little workhorse home at the end of a hard day.

i looked up the one on trademe, its tree cares old one and id say itd be absolutely raped raggerd and would be needing alot of work, i dont think itd meet safety standards either but for 12 g could be good score

 

[VINIFIREWOOD]

http://www.felling.com/trailers/hydraulicdump/sidedump/index.asp