Trying to get into the wood splitting business

[Patrick62]

return on investment?

I was working for a store here a few years ago. They put in a rental area. And some darn nice equipment as well! most of the daily rentals were based upon 10% of the initial investment. rent it 10 times and you paid for it!! Looks great on paper.

I would be back there quoting rentals, and they would walk away. Most of the stuff just sat there gathering dust. A hydraulic tiller went out and tilled 3 times in 4 years, but twice it was to my mothers garden (employee perk). Think it will ever pay for itself? atleast it won't get worn out!

I got a guy working as a independent contractor cutting down trees for me. His saws, fuel, etc. He is getting $25 an hour. That is about as high as I can go. It is tough. Blood money for sure. I might make 10% on the wood here if we don't break anything expensive....

-Pat

 

[owbguy]

its in the $35 per hour range here in southwest Michigan.
The thing you need to drive home is what you can do in that "hour" that the other guys can't do. You need to show people that they are getting a good deal. Your $100 per hour needs to produce better than the three hours from the $35 per hour guy. Quality and credibility go a long way, but sheer output is what most people with measure as the difference.
In terms of your investment, most people figure they already have the splitter, so its a fixed cost. They are looking to cover incidental costs and their hourly rate, and then a little something more for the fixed costs.
I would suggest taking a few jobs even if the prices are lower than you want. Work, then see how the money stacks up against your expenses. You may find that its ok. You may find that you can get a better rate based on your output and your customers' satisfaction. You need to start somewhere, and the key to that is starting...

 

[Locust Cutter]

That sure is a purty splitter tho

do the math... what does a cord sell for in PA anyway?? How much of that is the wood worth? How much is it to get it cut? Then how much is left?

Here in Colorado the numbers are slightly different, but the result is the same "there ain't $$$ in firewood".

In the yard, splitting with my splitter, I pay $18 a cord to the guy splitting. That is being pretty nice. I have run a cord an hour many times, but I am not capable of keeping it up past about 2 cords... you guys must be really really strong to do 7 cords in a day. that would only be around 35,000 pounds of thru put.

sincerely,
-Pat

What Part of CO? I've got ties to family ground a bit outside of Salida and spent a bit of time while growing up in Buena Vista and Leadville.

 

[Garmins dad]

That is a very nice splitter.. :msp_thumbup: Around here two guys a bobcat with a grapple, log splitter and two chain saws show up. For 1000 bucks there is 5 to 7 cords (full cords) stacked at the end of day two and my bush line is cleaned up. I would hope your log splitter would last a lot longer then 5 years at that price. I think your figuring the price of your equipment replacement far too short of time.

I get 50 a hour with my 60 hp jd tractor and 6 foot brush mower. It's the going rate..

I hope it does work for ya..

 

[damato333]

I don't know of anyone who would pay that to have wood split. As others have discussed, it comes to a point where its easier and damn near the same price just to have split wood delivered. With that being said, good luck on your venture and keep us posted.

These guys advertise on CL all the time and they are getting $75 an hour.

Lucky Strike Log Splitting

And here is another thats a little closer to you - I think

MOBILE LOG SPLITTING

Ok I can admit that I might be a little high. So I'll drop it down to $80 an hour. Those first guys have a fly wheel splitter. First knot they hit they won't know what to do. And they don't have a log lift so how are those guys going to split a 100 pound log. And how come you didn't mention they carge $100 an hour for logs larger than 24 inches. What are they going to do measure every log to check if it's 24 inches. It'll turn into $100 an hour for one 24 inch log and 5 cords of 12 inch logs. The last guy is charging $35 an hour so he is probably using a vertical splitter. If it's a vertical splitter that is basically stealing money cause he will end up making more money than me for splitting the same amount wood cause it'll take him 2 or 3 times as long as me.

 

[redheadwoodshed]

Ok I can admit that I might be a little high. So I'll drop it down to $80 an hour. Those first guys have a fly wheel splitter. First knot they hit they won't know what to do. And they don't have a log lift so how are those guys going to split a 100 pound log. And how come you didn't mention they carge $100 an hour for logs larger than 24 inches. What are they going to do measure every log to check if it's 24 inches. It'll turn into $100 an hour for one 24 inch log and 5 cords of 12 inch logs. The last guy is charging $35 an hour so he is probably using a vertical splitter. If it's a vertical splitter that is basically stealing money cause he will end up making more money than me for splitting the same amount wood cause it'll take him 2 or 3 times as long as me.

That's why I would charge by the rick.Figure out how long it would, on average take you to split a rick and go from there.

 

[mikereynolds]

Sounds to me you don't want advise at all

After reading this thread Iit's my understanding that you asked for advise and debate with those that offered the wisdom you requested. I've been in this game a long time as many others here. We been there done that and learned along the way and are willing to share such knowledge in an effort to reduce useless effort from someone that wants to learn. For you, go out into the world my friend and give it 110% You never know. report back and let us know this time next year how it is working out for you. I offer that service as well but instead of money that is hard to extract from a client's wallet, I keep 1/2 the wood and sell it to make my money. I don't get many takers even on that good of a deal.

 

[Locust Cutter]

Hmmmmm,...

I'd have to agree w/Mike. Have you ever personally used or witnessed a flywheel splitter in action? Knots are NOT a problem, and Sunfish can attest to that. If a guy using a vertical is going to take 2-3x the amount of time you will, then if charging the same he'll make 1/2-1/3 the net money you will, as a function of $$$ divided by time. That's pretty simple math. If you don't want advice, or are just going to do what you wanted in the first place, don't solicit advice. At least have the class and respect not to be completely argumentative to those who are trying to let you learn vicariously through their own experience, w/o having to make the same mistakes yourself. I wish you the best.:msp_confused:

 

[damato333]

After reading this thread Iit's my understanding that you asked for advise and debate with those that offered the wisdom you requested. I've been in this game a long time as many others here. We been there done that and learned along the way and are willing to share such knowledge in an effort to reduce useless effort from someone that wants to learn. For you, go out into the world my friend and give it 110% You never know. report back and let us know this time next year how it is working out for you. I offer that service as well but instead of money that is hard to extract from a client's wallet, I keep 1/2 the wood and sell it to make my money. I don't get many takers even on that good of a deal.

Read all of my posts first and then tell me I'm not taking advice. I already conceded and said I think I might lowe it to $80 an hour. But it seems like I would be better off going out and buying a $1,000 vertical splitter and charging $35 an hour cause I will end up making more money. I don't know who would pay that cause you might as well just use the cash in your stove to heat your house. At $80 an hour I think I am reasonable compared to a vertical splitter at $35-$50 an hour. With my splitter I get more production so I have to charge more.

 

[Swamp Yankee]

Agree and disagree

On the plus side, unlike a lot of people in the wood business, you're thinking about your costs which include both labor / time and the machine. If you're going to work you are entitled to make a profit. That said at the $100 per hour rate I wouldn't sit by the phone waiting.

Tree services and landscapers that I know in the area that sell wood process it themselves. With the wood as a by product of the business, they will have a splitter in the yard and use the processing of firewood as a fill in job to keep the help busy when things are slow or if they finish a job early in the day and don't want to start the next until the following day. They are not paying these guys anywhere near $100 per hour.

On the homeowner front I guarantee they will balk. On the few times I'm approached to cut and split a takedown for a customer I price out at $35 per hour for man and machinery. I tell them straight up its $280 cash for an 8 hour day. I then tell them if they wish to do it themselves, I tell them where they can rent a T'Wolf TW-2 for $150 a weekend, they usually thank me and go that route.

I do wish you luck with your endeavor, but there is a reality that the service you wish to sell is not high demand.

Take Care

 

[redheadwoodshed]

Read all of my posts first and then tell me I'm not taking advice. I already conceded and said I think I might lowe it to $80 an hour. But it seems like I would be better off going out and buying a $1,000 vertical splitter and charging $35 an hour cause I will end up making more money. I don't know who would pay that cause you might as well just use the cash in your stove to heat your house. At $80 an hour I think I am reasonable compared to a vertical splitter at $35-$50 an hour. With my splitter I get more production so I have to charge more.

Will that be split and stacked?

 

[damato333]

Agree and disagree

On the plus side, unlike a lot of people in the wood business, you're thinking about your costs which include both labor / time and the machine. If you're going to work you are entitled to make a profit. That said at the $100 per hour rate I wouldn't sit by the phone waiting.

Tree services and landscapers that I know in the area that sell wood process it themselves. With the wood as a by product of the business, they will have a splitter in the yard and use the processing of firewood as a fill in job to keep the help busy when things are slow or if they finish a job early in the day and don't want to start the next until the following day. They are not paying these guys anywhere near $100 per hour.

On the homeowner front I guarantee they will balk. On the few times I'm approached to cut and split a takedown for a customer I price out at $35 per hour for man and machinery. I tell them straight up its $280 cash for an 8 hour day. I then tell them if they wish to do it themselves, I tell them where they can rent a T'Wolf TW-2 for $150 a weekend, they usually thank me and go that route.

I do wish you luck with your endeavor, but there is a reality that the service you wish to sell is not high demand.

Take Care

How long does it take you to split a cord?

 

[2treeornot2tree]

I have a amish guy come out with a firewood processor for all my log length wood. He charges $30 a hour and he can split about 1.5 cords a hour.

Once wood is cut to length which, most cases when i bring it home from a tree job it is, i can split a cord of wood in just over a hour with a old horizontal / vertical spliter. Your numbers sound right ( $40 per hour per person, plus fuel/ equipment) but around here, you wont get anyone to pay that per hour for spliting. You can rent a spliter for under $200 a day. Here is my pile thats for sale. I split it all with my horz / vert single wedge spliter.

 

[damato333]

If some of you guys that gave advice think I 'm arrogant, sorry about that. But I'm stubborn. I think I should make more then some guy with a vertical splitter that will take a week to split the same amount of wood that I can split in a day. What does everyone think about $80 an hour?

 

[2treeornot2tree]

If some of you guys that gave advice think I 'm arrogant, sorry about that. But I'm stubborn. I think I should make more then some guy with a vertical splitter that will take a week to split the same amount of wood that I can split in a day. What does everyone think about $80 an hour?

Your local market will dictate the price. I bet i could split more wood with my little spliter then you could with that, expecially 24" and bigger stuff. I found on the spliters like yours with the lifts that they will only lift so much. I can split a big piece on the ground much faster, but small stuff you might beat me.

 

[damato333]

I have a amish guy come out with a firewood processor for all my log length wood. He charges $30 a hour and he can split about 1.5 cords a hour.

[url]http://www.arboristsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=244428&d=1341762[/url]

That sounds really cheap.

 

[2treeornot2tree]

That sounds really cheap.

he is amish after all.

 

[damato333]

Your local market will dictate the price. I bet i could split more wood with my little spliter then you could with that, expecially 24" and bigger stuff. I found on the spliters like yours with the lifts that they will only lift so much. I can split a big piece on the ground much faster, but small stuff you might beat me.

You might be right. But the lifts not the problem. I think I can lift 300 pounds with the lift and I rarely get wood that big. Once I split a big log I might have to lift a 100 pound piece back on to the splitter. So thats where you might beat me. It all depends on kind of wood, how the grain is, and how big the wood is.

 

[damato333]

I have a amish guy come out with a firewood processor for all my log length wood. He charges $30 a hour and he can split about 1.5 cords a hour.

Once wood is cut to length which, most cases when i bring it home from a tree job it is, i can split a cord of wood in just over a hour with a old horizontal / vertical spliter. Your numbers sound right ( $40 per hour per person, plus fuel/ equipment) but around here, you wont get anyone to pay that per hour for spliting. You can rent a spliter for under $200 a day. Here is my pile thats for sale. I split it all with my horz / vert single wedge spliter.

That had to have cost him over $12,000. Nice setup though. I love your conveyor. A conveyor is the next thing I need.

 

[ddhlakebound]

If some of you guys that gave advice think I 'm arrogant, sorry about that. But I'm stubborn. I think I should make more then some guy with a vertical splitter that will take a week to split the same amount of wood that I can split in a day. What does everyone think about $80 an hour?

As has been mentioned, I think you'd be better off getting customers by charging by volume. By the cubic foot, face cord, cord or however you wish.

If I were looking for someone to split wood, I damn sure wouldn't agree to any hourly deal where I don't know what I'm getting for my money. What if (insert a thousand excuses or difficulties here) happened, and you were only able to produce 2/3 of your normal output for the day? No thanks. I'm in no hurry to have wood split. I could care less if it takes a day, or three, or a week, as long as I know what it costs up front.

Have you EVER heard "Man, I've gotta have that pile split today, no matter what"?

You want to charge a premium to do the easiest part of firewood making. The wood has already been cut, hauled, dumped in one spot. The vast majority of the liability and danger is gone. Somebody else already assumed those risks, you get the easy part.

Compared to saws, chippers, and stump grinders, wood splitters are light on maintenance. And far lower parts cost than chippers and stumpers.

It's a very nice wood splitter. But the wood that comes off of it burns just the same as any other splitter out there. Yours doesn't make it burn hotter or last longer, it doesn't make less ash, and it doesn't dry the wood as it goes through.

The bottom line is, how much is it worth to have a cord of round wood turned into split wood. In a $200/cord market, it's not $100. Or even $80.