Trying to get into the wood splitting business

[RAMROD48]

You bought an $8000 splitter thinking you would strike it rich...

maybe your plan should have started with finding out what the going rate is for splitting wood...

 

[damato333]

You bought an $8000 splitter thinking you would strike it rich...

maybe your plan should have started with finding out what the going rate is for splitting wood...

Splitting wood for other people was not why originally bought the splittet. I originally bought it to split wood for myself. And I don't want to "strike it rich". I Just don't want to go out waste my time by working for nothing.

 

[2treeornot2tree]

That had to have cost him over $12,000. Nice setup though. I love your conveyor. A conveyor is the next thing I need.

Pretty sure he said it cost $25,000

 

[spike60]

The discussion is revolving too much around the hourly rate, which is based in part on the original cost of the splitter. The real bottom line, as has been pointed out is what is the final cost of a cord of wood for the end user. In your market of $200 a cord for split wood, your proposed splitting service must be able to undercut that $200 mark by at least $50 to get people interested. After all, with the rounds sitting there waiting for you, an awful lot of the work, (dropping, limbing, dealing with the brush, cutting the wood to length), has already been done by someone else. If that work was done by a tree service, the property owner has spent a fair amount of money to get that far. There may be some times where a homeowner has a tree or two taken down, and would pay you to split it. But if it's just one or two trees, there may not be enough wood to make the trip worthwhile for you. And the people most likely to call you will be folks with enormous sized blocks of wood that will be way more labor intensive than the average firewood log.

Now, charging by the cord has a few logistical problems of it's own. You pull into someones yard and there's a big pile of wood there. It's tough to accurately estimate how many cords are in that pile. The only way to be sure is to stack it as you go, but that would add a bunch of labor to the project.

Not trying to shoot down your idea; just trying to point of a few things that you might run into. You got yourself a nice splitter, and you're ready to dig in and go to work, (and I admire being stubborn). But I think it's best to get as much wood from the tree companies you are hooked up with and process and sell the wood yourself. Then you are dealing in the known quanity of $200 for a cord of wood. But to try and insert yourself into the middle of the process and just do the splitting exposes you to an ever changing set of variables where the numbers are seldom going to come out right.

 

[owbguy]

Splitting wood for other people was not why originally bought the splittet. I originally bought it to split wood for myself. And I don't want to "strike it rich". I Just don't want to go out waste my time by working for nothing.

This is what you need to keep in mind. Focus on this fact, and then realize that when you split extra wood it pays for the splitter you need for your own purposes.

If you want to make money then I would consider selling firewood rather than offering a splitting service. Either way, focus on that $8,000 being a fixed (sunk) cost, and any revenue generated over incidental costs being recoupment of that cost.

 

[damato333]

The discussion is revolving too much around the hourly rate, which is based in part on the original cost of the splitter. The real bottom line, as has been pointed out is what is the final cost of a cord of wood for the end user. In your market of $200 a cord for split wood, your proposed splitting service must be able to undercut that $200 mark by at least $50 to get people interested. After all, with the rounds sitting there waiting for you, an awful lot of the work, (dropping, limbing, dealing with the brush, cutting the wood to length), has already been done by someone else. If that work was done by a tree service, the property owner has spent a fair amount of money to get that far. There may be some times where a homeowner has a tree or two taken down, and would pay you to split it. But if it's just one or two trees, there may not be enough wood to make the trip worthwhile for you. And the people most likely to call you will be folks with enormous sized blocks of wood that will be way more labor intensive than the average firewood log.

Now, charging by the cord has a few logistical problems of it's own. You pull into someones yard and there's a big pile of wood there. It's tough to accurately estimate how many cords are in that pile. The only way to be sure is to stack it as you go, but that would add a bunch of labor to the project.

Not trying to shoot down your idea; just trying to point of a few things that you might run into. You got yourself a nice splitter, and you're ready to dig in and go to work, (and I admire being stubborn). But I think it's best to get as much wood from the tree companies you are hooked up with and process and sell the wood yourself. Then you are dealing in the known quanity of $200 for a cord of wood. But to try and insert yourself into the middle of the process and just do the splitting exposes you to an ever changing set of variables where the numbers are seldom going to come out right.

I agree with everything you said. The only way to accurately charge by the cord is if I stacked all the wood I split for someone. And if I had split that 60 cords for that guy there is no way I would stack all of that. I guess I will try focusing on selling wood that I split.

 

[Swamp Yankee]

How long does it take you to split a cord?

Fill in the blanks

Am I working off a pile of tree length in the landing or a takedown that's on uneven or uphill terrain with lots of brush, stumps, and rocks to trip over?

How big and what species is the wood?

Is the wood straight grain run or full of knots and crotches?

How close to the wood can I get my splitter?

How often will I have to move the splitter?

Is there room to get the big pieces with a bucket or do I need to noodle and drag with a hookeroon?

What size am I making the splits? 24 inch OWB or Wood / Oil boiler split big, 12 to 14 inches split small for a Jotul 702 or somewhere in between?

What am I doing with the splits after, leaving in a pile at the end of the outfeed, throwing them into the bed of a truck, etc?

Who does the raking and clean-up of the sawdust and splitter trash?

In short, the time on the splitter matters little. The logistics of getting wood on and off the splitter takes the biggest amount of time. My TW2-HD has auto-cycle so the splitting time is spent staging the next piece. Working alone it is waiting for me most of the time except under the best conditions.

In answer to the question about $80 / hour, as I said before feel free to charge whatever you wish just be aware there is not a lot of demand for the service and you'll be in competition with the beer money crowd.

Take Care

 

[ddhlakebound]

Now, charging by the cord has a few logistical problems of it's own. You pull into someones yard and there's a big pile of wood there. It's tough to accurately estimate how many cords are in that pile. The only way to be sure is to stack it as you go, but that would add a bunch of labor to the project.

No real need to estimate beforehand, and it can be measured after splitting as a loose thrown pile. A loose thrown pile of 16" firewood is 180 cu. ft..

To measure the volume of a cone shaped pile, use this formula:

V = 1/3 * pi (3.14) * radius squared * height.

If that seems like too much trouble, and stacking to measure is necessary, it should only be a few cords before measuring and math start to look pretty good.

Just as an example, 2tree's pic of the pile under the elevator I'd estimate from the pic to be roughly 11' tall, and 20' diameter. (10' radius) So....

.33 x 3.14 x 100 x 11 = 1139.82 cu. ft. or 6.33 cords of loose thrown wood. Of course, that's only as accurate as my estimation of the height and diameter of the pile.

 

[ponyexpress976]

I'm hooked up with a tree company in my area and all they do is drop the tree, chip the limbs, and cut the logs into manageable pieces. They call me to take it away as long as if its enough wood and if its close enough. I could call them and ask them to recommend me to homeowners that need there logs made into firewood.

One thing for sure is it never hurts to ask.

 

[jrider]

Ok I can admit that I might be a little high. So I'll drop it down to $80 an hour. Those first guys have a fly wheel splitter. First knot they hit they won't know what to do. And they don't have a log lift so how are those guys going to split a 100 pound log. And how come you didn't mention they carge $100 an hour for logs larger than 24 inches. What are they going to do measure every log to check if it's 24 inches. It'll turn into $100 an hour for one 24 inch log and 5 cords of 12 inch logs. The last guy is charging $35 an hour so he is probably using a vertical splitter. If it's a vertical splitter that is basically stealing money cause he will end up making more money than me for splitting the same amount wood cause it'll take him 2 or 3 times as long as me.

This is by no means a dig on you and your thinking but if a guy couldn't lift a 100 pound log on his own, he shouldn't even think about doing this kind of work. And they have 2 guys. I split a lot of wood and would love to upgrade to a larger model with a log lift but I sure as hell wouldn't be using it on 100 pound logs because it would slow me down too much.

 

[damato333]

This is by no means a dig on you and your thinking but if a guy couldn't lift a 100 pound log on his own, he shouldn't even think about doing this kind of work. And they have 2 guys. I split a lot of wood and would love to upgrade to a larger model with a log lift but I sure as hell wouldn't be using it on 100 pound logs because it would slow me down too much.

I can lift a 100 pound log but it's not like I want to do it more than a few times a day. Even though I can do it it doesn't mean I want to. Stop lying that was a dig and it was a pretty good one:msp_tongue:.

 

[zogger]

Read all of my posts first and then tell me I'm not taking advice. I already conceded and said I think I might lowe it to $80 an hour. But it seems like I would be better off going out and buying a $1,000 vertical splitter and charging $35 an hour cause I will end up making more money. I don't know who would pay that cause you might as well just use the cash in your stove to heat your house. At $80 an hour I think I am reasonable compared to a vertical splitter at $35-$50 an hour. With my splitter I get more production so I have to charge more.

I'd skip that charging by the hour stuff. Charge by the cord. That's how wood is sold, so it is the figure people want to discuss and are familiar with. You don't have to explain anything to anyone then, and joe customer can decide what is is worth, if your service makes more sense than buying his own 1000 buck splitter and doing it himself.

I know I would think twice over a 750 a day figure because you can near buy a new one and get a lot more than ten or whatever cords out of it, even just splitting now and then in your spare time. 750 is a lot for someone to come up- with.

Heck man, I am a scawny old guy now and can bust 1/8th of a cord a day in spare evening time by hand, total fifty dollar equipment investment, and most likely 1/4 cord if it is mostly all straight grained and I skip and chuck all the uglies into the bummer pile. And it doesn't take all that long, either.

So what is it worth to a customer? What you can get. No takers at 750 a day or 80-100 an hour, try by the cord instead. How much, can't say, maybe 40 bucks? See 40 sounds a lot less than 100 an hour, but, if you can put out three cord or better an hour..see? The customer is happy,you have made even more than you thought.

Marketing is tricky. It is half of any business, the "work" of the business is the other half. A little bit extra thought in how you are selling yourself will go a long way.

 

[Steve2910]

I'd skip that charging by the hour stuff. Charge by the cord. That's how wood is sold, so it is the figure people want to discuss and are familiar with.

The problem w/ that is you're going to get a lot of requests to split big/ nasty wood. Everybody loves a bargain & most don't mind getting one by taking advantage of "the other guy". You'll either work yourself to death earning your (priced too low) "per cord" $$, or (if you price your service so that you're actually making $$) they're going to realize they could get a cord delivered for what you're charging.

As you alluded to, not a lot of calls to split straight grained Red Oak or Tulip Poplar, most people would just bust that stuff up by hand themselves.

 

[rmount]

I think I should make more then some guy with a vertical splitter that will take a week to split the same amount of wood that I can split in a day. What does everyone think about $80 an hour?

I think you're going to have a real hard time selling that argument to customers. Why not drop the whole by the hour thing and charge by the cord. That way, if they've been paying someone $35/hr to split a cord in 3 hours they'll be real happy to get your bill for only $80 and have the job done sooner.

 

[spidermonkey17]

I can lift a 100 pound log but it's not like I want to do it more than a few times a day. Even though I can do it it doesn't mean I want to. Stop lying that was a dig and it was a pretty good one:msp_tongue:.

i would just quarter it and pick up 25 pounds four times:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:

I agree with what a lot of people are saying and i think you have the correct idea going with the firewood processing and making some money back that you spent on the splitter but here is another way to think about marketing yourself to your customers.

First all i can tell you no customer is going to want for you to be on there property for a day or more splitting firewood, especially if you are in a nice neighborhood. They are going to want that wood backed in to there driveway, dropped and stacked and you gone with the money for that load of wood. Just point blank that is the way they want it, its one thing if they have tree work going on there and its several days that they are going to be on site that's fine they don't want someone standing there for hours splitting wood on there property.

If i were you i would hook up with a couple reputable tree companies in the area and see if they can drop the logs off at your property to be split then advertise wherever you can for firewood. Let them put your name out and you also put your name out, and see what happens

 

[ponyexpress976]

I've only ever had one taker charging above $60/hr. Had a few at $35/hr but felt like I busted my A$$ AND NEVER MADE ANY COIN. The key to making a go in the world of firewood is to keep as many expenses as close to zero as humanly possible. Get as much wood dumped at your site as you can. Process into firewood only when a more effecient dollar can't be made(rainy days, slow times throughout the year, etc). Deliver the finished product only if you have to...helping to load someone else's truck is a lot better than loading your own, driving it, unloding, and returning. If it's been said once it's been said a thousand times...the best way to make a million dollars selling firewood is to start with two.

 

[mitch95100]

I cant even split my own wood let alone someone elses

 

[mikereynolds]

You got good advise over and over!

Now what are you gonna do with it? Here's an anticdote for you....A backhoe cost about $85,000 new...I need to get $100 bucks per hour to make it pay for itself. I rarely charge by the hour so I don't have to justify the "perceived high hourly rate" so I charge by the job and the client can put a set price on his investment. For example, I might bid a septic leach field dig & backfil for $1100 and usually be done in less than 8 hours. do the math...It's simple psychology.

 

[Gavman]

Now what are you gonna do with it? Here's an anticdote for you....A backhoe cost about $85,000 new...I need to get $100 bucks per hour to make it pay for itself. I rarely charge by the hour so I don't have to justify the "perceived high hourly rate" so I charge by the job and the client can put a set price on his investment. For example, I might bid a septic leach field dig & backfil for $1100 and usually be done in less than 8 hours. do the math...It's simple psychology.

Yes thats the way to do it, I just quoted demo and removal of a single car garage plus foundations for 2600, one days work for me with about 7 to 800 in expenses.... But I am bringing over $120,000 worth of equipment there for the job, I would be way less interested in doing it hourly and making say 800 for the day....

 

[lmbrman]

Curious thing has been going on around here in the firewood business. firewood stacks are being assessed as personal property and taxed on the property tax bill if there is any hint is it a business.

Several loggers around here do firewood as a sideline on account of the cash, but they are throwin in the towel after being taxed for inventory.

lots of money in firewood, but tough to get the money back outta it.