Twin Oak down....what is my safest bet?

[Flintknapper]

Extremely wet weather here lately, LOTS of rain has saturated the ground. A large (double) Water Oak in my pasture toppled over and now I have two rather large root balls to deal with. The trunks fell exactly opposite one another (180° apart). One fell slightly uphill, the other slightly downhill.

Both have a lot of upward growing branches that are now stuck in the ground, so the main trunk(s) are off the ground at both ends. I've dealt with this before...but not a tree as large as this one (approximately 44" in diameter...above the swell).

Normally, I would start at the top and work my way back toward the root ball, but there are a lot of big limbs under a lot of tension on both trees. On the other hand...if I attempt to cut away the root ball(s) first, I'll have to deal with the compression (try to avoid getting my saw pinched) and IF that doesn't happen...watch for the root balls to stand back up (they are still pretty much in the hole).

I am fairly certain the trunks are solid (haven't bored into one yet), but many of the Oaks around here (that size) have some amount of hollowness or are 'dody', which could also present a problem. Kind of hate to wade into the tops and risk 'multiple' limbs under pressure...VS. the root ball possibilities, but maybe you Pro's can offer your best advice and/or techniques.

I'm experienced with saws....but certainly no 'Pro'. My inclination is to support under the trunks (6'-8 from the root ball) so the trunk can't fall (far), come up from the bottom about 1/3 rd, bore through...then down to make an undercut. Then move to the top. Get some wedges in there as soon as I can. Go slow and watch for movement. Danger there...is that root ball might stand back up, trunk might roll some, compression might pinch my saw, then I'd be faced with cutting it out with a somewhat smaller saw.

The only equipment I have...is a small 50 HP 4WD tractor...so not much help there.

Sheeeesh, after writing and reading that....maybe going REALLY slow and topping it first....is the better choice. What say you guys?

Yeah, I know...you're going want pics.

Thanks, Flint.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

Yessir, pics would help a lot. Just in general though, on an uprooted tree, I like leaving it on the stump as long as possible to prevent rolling. Take the easy stuff first and constantly reassess. Get it down to those few load bearing points.

 

[blumtn969]

Yessir, pics would help a lot. Just in general though, on an uprooted tree, I like leaving it on the stump as long as possible to prevent rolling. Take the easy stuff first and constantly reassess. Get it down to those few load bearing points.

You mentioned having a 50 horse 4x4 tractor, that with some steel cable and a snatch block could work wonders for making this safer. I don't know how steep of ground your talking about, but that tractor will help more than you think. Its good to think safety in this situation a 75 year old man was killed in my town last summer when he cut the wrong limb on a big pine and it rolled on him.

 

[Flintknapper]

OK couldn't get decent pics with my cell phone in the low afternoon sun, but maybe you can get some idea of how these two tree trunks are sitting. I couldn't get a picture of the entire thing, because they fell 180° apart and from tip to tip are 58 big paces long (I am 6’-5” and have a pretty good stride).

Anyway, first pic shows how they fell away from one another... and that one of them (to the right) is still very much supported underneath by limbs. Some of those limbs are 20 + inches in diameter.

Second is just kind of for ‘scale’. Hard to get a really good perspective for how things are sitting from a picture alone.

Suffice to say, lots of limbs way overhead, lots of limbs under tension.

 

[Flintknapper]

Yes, definitely want to be safe doing this. Probably just start with my pole saw to get the stuff I couldn't reach otherwise, then clear everything away. Would be nice to detach the root balls...so I could pull the trunks over with the tractor (tractors maybe). The one...(to the left) really isn't that much a challenge, but you ALWAYS have to be careful. The one on the right (see pic) is going to be a slow go, if I am going to keep from hurting myself.

If it gets too "hairy", I'll just bring in a pro.

 

[Marshy]

Regarding the stumps, its really hard to tell from the pics if they will stand back up after the cut or not. There isnt a wrong way to do it as long as you do it safely. The name of the game is Risk and the purpose is to do it with the least amount of risk. That being said, if you asked 10 different people you'll get 10 different answers. The best response you'll get is "if you do this you can expect that".

I usually go for removal the root ball first but these are big and heavy trees. It looks like you can do plenty of cutting up top without risk of the stump shifting and trying to stand back up. However, those branches in the mud can act like anchors and when making the cut for the stump the more mass and branches plunged into the ground the less likely the trunk will shift far.

Going to use the Solo for this job?

 

[Flintknapper]

Regarding the stumps, its really hard to tell from the pics if they will stand back up after the cut or not. There isnt a wrong way to do it as long as you do it safely. The name of the game is Risk and the purpose is to do it with the least amount of risk. That being said, if you asked 10 different people you'll get 10 different answers. The best response you'll get is "if you do this you can expect that".

I usually go for removal the root ball first but these are big and heavy trees. It looks like you can do plenty of cutting up top without risk of the stump shifting and trying to stand back up. However, those branches in the mud can act like anchors and when making the cut for the stump the more mass and branches plunged into the ground the less likely the trunk will shift far.

Going to use the Solo for this job?

Yes, the Solo will see the lions share of the work...I am sure. Naturally, I will use the smallest saw feasible to do my 'limbing' but it won't be long before the wood demands something with some 'grunt'. I have 24", 32" and 42" bars for the 603...so I can swap in whatever is needed, but its a heavy (old school) saw and will tire you fast. If you run a 'tank' through it.....you'll be ready to sit down and rest for a bit.

My 'ancient' Poulans will be put to work as well. I know folks like to laugh at them, but the 'old' Poulans (magnesium cased, reed valve saws) were no slouch...(in their day). They are saws I grew up with and I admit to being a bit nostalgic, where modern saws would do a better job. Can't help it.

 

[Marshy]

Yes, the Solo will see the lions share of the work...I am sure. Naturally, I will use the smallest saw feasible to do my 'limbing' but it won't be long before the wood demands something with some 'grunt'. I have 24", 32" and 42" bars for the 603...so I can swap in whatever is needed, but its a heavy (old school) saw and will tire you fast. If you run a 'tank' through it.....you'll be ready to sit down and rest for a bit.

My 'ancient' Poulans will be put to work as well. I know folks like to laugh at them, but the 'old' Poulans (magnesium cased, reed valve saws) were no slouch...(in their day). They are saws I grew up with and I admit to being a bit nostalgic, where modern saws would do a better job. Can't help it.

Nice looking saws. For some reason I couldnt see you photos until I quoated you... IDK... Happy cutting.

 

[derwoodii]

.maybe going REALLY slow and topping it first....is the better choice.

yes take your time peck away by then end of the job you'll have learned a lot about fallen tree dynamics and how to un jam your saw hint plastic wedges crow bar and axe will bee your friends.

When on the big solid rolling rocking stuff have your wtf escape route planned and clear of debris & try not to work alone & then try not to have 2 within harms way one cut while other stand clear till surveyed secure.

hope your fit your going to get tired the cutting easy bit the hauling it away hard & what you doing with the wood n limbs

 

[Marshy]

Cutting will become the easy part. The real work becomes moving those big rounds and all the splits. Looks like a good time.

 

[square1]

I have nothing to add on the trees, but your bars have no paint worn off them What's up with that!?

 

[Flintknapper]

Pic taken after some of the saws were rebuilt/freshened up/new bars installed. Not to worry, they ALL look like hell now and have been used MANY hours.

Believe me, every saw I own... gets used here on the ranch.

 

[cus_deluxe]

man those old poulans should be on a shelf, those are tough old saws. There hasnt been a poulan dealer anywhere near me to my knowledge, and ive only occasionally seen a 3400 or too, never seen one of the bigger ones. I guess theyre probly more common other places

 

[Flintknapper]

man those old poulans should be on a shelf, those are tough old saws. There hasnt been a poulan dealer anywhere near me to my knowledge, and ive only occasionally seen a 3400 or too, never seen one of the bigger ones. I guess theyre probly more common other places

3400's pretty common around here. It was a very popular size (56 cc) and a LOT of them were sold to homeowners/farmers/ranchers. Not a 'pro' saw...but a well built saw. The 3800 is (61 cc) same story as the 3400 basically, just a tad bit more displacement. Finally the 4000 (65 cc) was less common for homeowners but used by some entry level loggers. The 4900 (77 cc) was a pro quality saw. Even the top handle S25 (38 cc model) was considered an arborist's saw (back in the day). Remember...these saws are between 30 and 35 years old. But that doesn't mean they don't cut!

There has been more than one person that STOPPED laughing at my 'old' saws, once the cutting started. They are NOT the equal of some more modern saws, I would be the first to say that, but they don't lack much... and many folks are surprised at how well they do.

 

[cus_deluxe]

I cut a bunch of trees up last spring with a friend with an old beat up 3400 that was his dads saw, who bought it new in the 80's or whatever. That thing was a tank for sure, very heavy for 56cc but they sound mean and they just plain keep on runnin it seems like.

 

[bikemike]

Yes, the Solo will see the lions share of the work...I am sure. Naturally, I will use the smallest saw feasible to do my 'limbing' but it won't be long before the wood demands something with some 'grunt'. I have 24", 32" and 42" bars for the 603...so I can swap in whatever is needed, but its a heavy (old school) saw and will tire you fast. If you run a 'tank' through it.....you'll be ready to sit down and rest for a bit.

My 'ancient' Poulans will be put to work as well. I know folks like to laugh at them, but the 'old' Poulans (magnesium cased, reed valve saws) were no slouch...(in their day). They are saws I grew up with and I admit to being a bit nostalgic, where modern saws would do a better job. Can't help it.

On private property id run the crap out of your saws. Some newer saws i cant say im to fond of strato and auto tune not my cup of tea. You have plenty of power in that stash of saws to do the job and also if one gets pinched

 

[rwoods]

Anyone using a FJ80 for scale doesn't need my help. But since you asked, carefully unload the trees from the top. This will give you more time to meditate on how to approach the root balls. A root ball is not a guaranteed anchor but it is usually better than none.

Ron

 

[c5rulz]

Looks pretty straightforward to me. Start at the top and work your way down. When hit large limbs firmly on the ground, leave those till last as they add stability. When cutting key sections, never stand on down hill side.

 

[Flintknapper]

Looks pretty straightforward to me. Start at the top and work your way down. When hit large limbs firmly on the ground, leave those till last as they add stability. When cutting key sections, never stand on down hill side.

Well a full month has passed....(where does the time go) since the twin-oak went down. Just now finding time to get out there and try to clean it up. Funny thing, it was just 'budding out' when it fell, but moisture left in the trunk and the deluge of rain we've had lately, let it completely leaf out.

I'll tell you right up front...this old man (60 yrs. old) didn't get as far as I would have liked to. About 4 hours into the project, I was pretty well 'played out'. That is a good time to STOP...when using a chainsaw.

Mid eighties here today. Humidity...hovering around 300% (felt like). Not a breath of wind!

Anyway, started by using the pole saw to remove all the smaller leafed out limbs. Dragged those off out of the way...so I could see what I was dealing with. Used the pole saw again to 'score' the larger (non supporting) limbs, and just popped those off with a chain hooked to my 4x4.

Bucked those up (mostly) then went back to see what would be needed to safely get the trunk closer to the ground.

Had quite a few limbs supporting the trunk that were under tension. Several were jammed into the ground...which has the effect of compressing the trunk. That was my concern about possibly cutting the root ball free first. Too easy to get your saw pinched, etc.

I cut this limb using a series of three kerfs spaced about 4" apart. Applied to the top (tension side)...going slowly and watching carefully. I got out of the last cut just as it started to 'open'. Got out of the way and let gravity do it's thing. Amazing to watch the other two cuts slowly close while last one opened. Took about 5 minutes of popping and creaking, then it suddenly turned loose!

LOTS of stored energy there folks! You can see how far the two pieces bypassed each other. A good indicator of what kind of pressure was pushing back against trunk. No surprise to you Pro's I am sure, and I knew it was going to happen (from previous experience), but a novice could get hurt in a hurry...if not careful to take their time and evaluate.

Anyway, I now have the worst half of this thing down where I can work on it better. Pretty sad though...when you look at this small pile of wood (in addition to what is laying on the ground).... that this is all I accomplished! Twenty years ago...I would have had that entire tree on the ground and bucked up by days end.

Thanks to everyone who offered advice. It very much helped to keep me safe!

Flint.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

Good job, way to respect it.