Unfortunate Arborvitae Accident

[lazerdriver]

I have/had 6 arborvitae trees in my yard, 3 in front/side yard, 3 in back/side yard that have been on my property for the past 17 years. When I planted them they were about 5 feet tall. The 3 in front were over 15 feet tall and provided a great privacy screen for my front patio, obscuring the 5 windows on the side of my neighbors house.

The 3 in back were in bad shape. They were half dead, so I requested my tree service to take them down. The problem? The service cut down the 3 good ones instead of the 3 dead ones. I had provided photos of the ones to cut down, clearly different looking than the good ones and next to my neighbors fence. I clearly told them the ones in the backyard. The work order they gave me stated the ones in the backyard. Someone from the service even came out and marked them with red tape. But the people who did the removal just ignored it all for whatever reason and cut down the wrong ones. You can imagine my frustration when I pulled into my driveway when I got home from work after they had been cut down. Still a little in shock over it all. I have used this tree service for many years for pruning and other tree removal with no problems.

So what to do now? The service has offered to replace them. They said they are going to try to get the tallest ones they can. But I don’t know what to expect. When I planted them, the biggest I could find were only about 5 feet tall. Do they sell taller ones than that? I think they were Pyramidals, but not 100% sure.

I feel like if they tell me 5 footers are the best they can do, then I am getting short changed. They won’t reach the height they were for at least another 10 years and that’s the end of my privacy screen for years. For the arborists out there, what would you do to make this right? For the homeowners, what would your expectations be? I just want my nice tall trees back

 

[cookies]

Start looking around for yourself, get on the phone and start asking nursuries where to get bigger transplants and send the tree company the bill for them and set a date for the correct removals and re planting

 

[TNTreeHugger]

Start looking around for yourself, get on the phone and start asking nursuries where to get bigger transplants and send the tree company the bill for them and set a date for the correct removals and re planting

Ditto.

And yes, you can buy them taller than 5'.
A nursery I used to work at, we had arbs up to 10'.

 

[lazerdriver]

Ditto.

And yes, you can buy them taller than 5'.
A nursery I used to work at, we had arbs up to 10'.

Thanks. I think 10 footers would be an acceptable replacement. I will check some of the local nurseries and see what they have.

 

[ATH]

Option B:
Hire someone qualified to give you an appraisal of the trees and go after that appraised value. In theory should be more than replacement cost using 8-10' trees. But that still leaves you without trees. If they cannot get 8-10' trees you may start discussing loss of value to see if that helps them find any. If they try to plant 5' and call it good, you probably want to talk to an attorney before letting that happen as you don't want to accept a settlement you didn't want to accept.

PS: are they still removing the correct trees?

 

[lazerdriver]

Option B:
Hire someone qualified to give you an appraisal of the trees and go after that appraised value. In theory should be more than replacement cost using 8-10' trees. But that still leaves you without trees. If they cannot get 8-10' trees you may start discussing loss of value to see if that helps them find any. If they try to plant 5' and call it good, you probably want to talk to an attorney before letting that happen as you don't want to accept a settlement you didn't want to accept.

PS: are they still removing the correct trees?

So far not much action on this in the12 days since the “accident”. If 5’ is the best they can come up with, then one thing I thought of is they should give me one foot of width for every foot of height they can’t give me back. So in addition to the three they would be replacing (which were about 15’ high and about 4’ wide), they owe me 30’ of width or about 7 additional trees. Not ideal, but that is probably the minimum offer I would consider.

I did check around as others suggested and found one nursery that has some at 12’ which sounds pretty good. So I at least know they exist in my area. That nursery charges about $1500 for a B&B tree with planting.

And yes, they are going to remove the correct trees and grind stumps (both at no cost) which sounds good. But I told them I didn’t want them to do anything until they have a plan for replacing the others. Hopefully this can all be done without legal intervention. It would more than likely be a small claims case. They are a pretty big, established service in this area, so I am hoping they can make it right.

 

[cookies]

Considering the value and damages being in the multiple thousands of dollars it is not small claims, they have insurance for these very things...there i a timeline you can file a case and the clock is ticking.

 

[ATH]

....

I did check around as others suggested and found one nursery that has some at 12’ which sounds pretty good. So I at least know they exist in my area. That nursery charges about $1500 for a B&B tree with planting.

...

Just an estimate...but if that nursery will sell the trees wholesale its probably less than 1/3 of that. So they really shouldn't balk at $1500 total plus their crew planting. But I'd wait until fall to plant. Get the promise to plant in writing now.

 

[lazerdriver]

Considering the value and damages being in the multiple thousands of dollars it is not small claims, they have insurance for these very things...there i a timeline you can file a case and the clock is ticking.

In Minnesota up to $6000 is considered small claims. I’ve been on the phone with several nurseries in my area and with one exception anything greater than 6 foot just does not seem to exist.

I talked to the nursery that had a few 12 foot again today. He said the only reason he even has these is because he got them at around 7 foot several years ago for a project that fell through, so he put them in the ground at his nursery. His price list says $1500 for 12 foot, a few feet shy of what I had but close enough. He also told me these were pretty common prior to the pandemic, but have been hard to find since then. I’m going to look at them Friday and see what condition they are in.

The situation seems kind of hopeless. With nurseries telling me bigger one don’t exist, it’s kind of hard to get a good read on my loss. Maybe in the $6000 to $7000, based on the nursery that has the few 12 foot ones. I don’t know how I would even begin to find someone qualified enough to tell me my actual loss. They would have little motivation to help, especially if there is no benefit to them.

And I’m not too confident how this would play out in the legal arena. I have no evidence of their height or condition. Just three stumps where my trees used to be. Maybe the height can be inferred from the stump width, but that might be subjective. No recent photos. Eight years ago is the most recent and not even a very good photo to show the height. Not to mention the stress and anxiety associated with going to court. They are a pretty big company, serving 30+ states, so they probably

The service sent me an email saying the biggest they can get is 7 foot, but they would keep looking. I’m considering telling them replace the three they shouldn’t have cut down, replace the three that they should have cut down, and add three more - all 7 foot. This makes up in width the amount of height they took from me by my estimates. If taller than 7 foot really don’t exist (other than the three 12 foot I found by sheer luck), then this might be the best I can do. I mean if the alternative is to go to court and try to win $7000, that still wouldn’t do anything to replace my loss if they don’t exist.

 

[cookies]

In Minnesota up to $6000 is considered small claims. I’ve been on the phone with several nurseries in my area and with one exception anything greater than 6 foot just does not seem to exist.

I talked to the nursery that had a few 12 foot again today. He said the only reason he even has these is because he got them at around 7 foot several years ago for a project that fell through, so he put them in the ground at his nursery. His price list says $1500 for 12 foot, a few feet shy of what I had but close enough. He also told me these were pretty common prior to the pandemic, but have been hard to find since then. I’m going to look at them Friday and see what condition they are in.

The situation seems kind of hopeless. With nurseries telling me bigger one don’t exist, it’s kind of hard to get a good read on my loss. Maybe in the $6000 to $7000, based on the nursery that has the few 12 foot ones. I don’t know how I would even begin to find someone qualified enough to tell me my actual loss. They would have little motivation to help, especially if there is no benefit to them.

And I’m not too confident how this would play out in the legal arena. I have no evidence of their height or condition. Just three stumps where my trees used to be. Maybe the height can be inferred from the stump width, but that might be subjective. No recent photos. Eight years ago is the most recent and not even a very good photo to show the height. Not to mention the stress and anxiety associated with going to court. They are a pretty big company, serving 30+ states, so they probably

The service sent me an email saying the biggest they can get is 7 foot, but they would keep looking. I’m considering telling them replace the three they shouldn’t have cut down, replace the three that they should have cut down, and add three more - all 7 foot. This makes up in width the amount of height they took from me by my estimates. If taller than 7 foot really don’t exist (other than the three 12 foot I found by sheer luck), then this might be the best I can do. I mean if the alternative is to go to court and try to win $7000, that still wouldn’t do anything to replace my loss if they don’t exist.

Your stewing too much, for a fee a arborist can give you the estimated damage cost..when dealing with plants you pay for the time they have grown..the older they are the more valuable...you could always put up a 8 foot fence

 

[ATH]

.... I don’t know how I would even begin to find someone qualified enough to tell me my actual loss. They would have little motivation to help, especially if there is no benefit to them.

And I’m not too confident how this would play out in the legal arena. I have no evidence of their height or condition. Just three stumps where my trees used to be. Maybe the height can be inferred from the stump width, but that might be subjective. No recent photos. Eight years ago is the most recent and not even a very good photo to show the height. Not to mention the stress and anxiety associated with going to court. They are a pretty big company, serving 30+ states, so they probably

The service sent me an email saying the biggest they can get is 7 foot, but they would keep looking. I’m considering telling them replace the three they shouldn’t have cut down, replace the three that they should have cut down, and add three more - all 7 foot. This makes up in width the amount of height they took from me by my estimates. If taller than 7 foot really don’t exist (other than the three 12 foot I found by sheer luck), then this might be the best I can do. I mean if the alternative is to go to court and try to win $7000, that still wouldn’t do anything to replace my loss if they don’t exist.

A) Where to find somebody: look at https://www.treesaregood.org/findanarborist/findanarborist (search by zipcode). You would be hiring them for that service. You would would seek restitution of those fees as part of any settlement. Might also try Association of Consulting Arborists.

B) Does your property show up on Google Earth? How about Street View? If so, take screen shots of those now. Street View changes, so get it if its there.

C) If they don't take the deal to replace (3) $1500 trees with (6) 7' trees, they'd be fools. If that makes you happy, its always better to reach an agreement everybody can be happy about without the attorneys.

Keep looking for the larger trees. First 3 nurseries in Ohio I pulled up had 10' (Siebenthaler, A Brown & Sons, Acorn Farms) (Acorn listed as 8-10' trees...but everything I've bought from them tends to be on the larger end of the advertised range). Klyn lists a few cultivars in 8'. I know...these are in Ohio and you are not, so that isn't terribly useful. But it shows they aren't unheard of. (various varieties of Thuja occidentalis I did not include T. plicata - but Green Giant's may or may not be a good fit for your site). Of course, if they advertise they are in 30 states, maybe you should suggest they talk to a branch in SW Ohio to get some trees delivered!

 

[lazerdriver]

A) Where to find somebody: look at https://www.treesaregood.org/findanarborist/findanarborist (search by zipcode). You would be hiring them for that service. You would would seek restitution of those fees as part of any settlement. Might also try Association of Consulting Arborists.

B) Does your property show up on Google Earth? How about Street View? If so, take screen shots of those now. Street View changes, so get it if its there.

C) If they don't take the deal to replace (3) $1500 trees with (6) 7' trees, they'd be fools. If that makes you happy, its always better to reach an agreement everybody can be happy about without the attorneys.

Keep looking for the larger trees. First 3 nurseries in Ohio I pulled up had 10' (Siebenthaler, A Brown & Sons, Acorn Farms) (Acorn listed as 8-10' trees...but everything I've bought from them tends to be on the larger end of the advertised range). Klyn lists a few cultivars in 8'. I know...these are in Ohio and you are not, so that isn't terribly useful. But it shows they aren't unheard of. (various varieties of Thuja occidentalis I did not include T. plicata - but Green Giant's may or may not be a good fit for your site). Of course, if they advertise they are in 30 states, maybe you should suggest they talk to a branch in SW Ohio to get some trees delivered!

Thanks for the information on the arborists search. It took several calls to find someone who would do an assessment like this, but I did find someone who seemed to know what he was talking about and said he could do the assessment. All the others told me they either didn't do this kind of thing or told me to check local nurseries.

My property does not show up on google maps. I am right at the border of where their street view maps end unfortunately. So evidence of their height is not available (except for an 8 year old photo) if it came down to something like that.

Siebenthaler has some bigger Hetz Wintergreens (8' and 10'). Seem like a good substitute for the Pyramidals, at least in terms of height. I have seem varying descriptions of their width...some sites say they get up to 10' wide, which wouldn't work for me. Siebenthaler's info says up to 6', which would be fine. I'm just not sure which is correct.

I talked to my tree service about the possibility of sourcing them from there, since anything over 5' just does not seem to exist here in Minnesota presently (both me and they have been coming up with nothing). They do have a branch in Dayton, so if they wanted to they could probably get someone to take a look at them. They had some concerns about this. Not so much about shipping them here, but he said hardiness might be a concern. He thought there might be some survival risk here considering they were grown in a different zone (Dayton is 5a and I think the Minneapolis/St. Paul area is 3b).

Does that sound valid?

 

[TNTreeHugger]

Thanks for the information on the arborists search. It took several calls to find someone who would do an assessment like this, but I did find someone who seemed to know what he was talking about and said he could do the assessment. All the others told me they either didn't do this kind of thing or told me to check local nurseries.

My property does not show up on google maps. I am right at the border of where their street view maps end unfortunately. So evidence of their height is not available (except for an 8 year old photo) if it came down to something like that.

Siebenthaler has some bigger Hetz Wintergreens (8' and 10'). Seem like a good substitute for the Pyramidals, at least in terms of height. I have seem varying descriptions of their width...some sites say they get up to 10' wide, which wouldn't work for me. Siebenthaler's info says up to 6', which would be fine. I'm just not sure which is correct.

I talked to my tree service about the possibility of sourcing them from there, since anything over 5' just does not seem to exist here in Minnesota presently (both me and they have been coming up with nothing). They do have a branch in Dayton, so if they wanted to they could probably get someone to take a look at them. They had some concerns about this. Not so much about shipping them here, but he said hardiness might be a concern. He thought there might be some survival risk here considering they were grown in a different zone (Dayton is 5a and I think the Minneapolis/St. Paul area is 3b).

Does that sound valid?

I t does to me.
I found a list of plants hardiness. Here's the thujas that are listed for zone 3
Little Giant' Arborvitae, 'Sky Bound', species White Cedar.
Eastern White Cedar - 'Congabe', 'Hetz Midget', 'Holmstrup', 'Nigra', 'Pygmy Globe', 'Pyramidalis', 'Bailjohn', 'Technito'® Globe, 'Techny', 'Techny Globe', 'Woodwardii', 'Degroot's Spire', 'Brandon', 'Anna's Magic Ball' aka 'Anna Van Vloten', North Pole® aka 'Art Boe' , 'Danica'
https://www.mda.state.mn.us/plants-insects/cold-hardiness-list

 

[ATH]

I'm less worried about the zone it's grown in than the zone its native in and hardiness rated. It's tough to know where the seed came from...Ideally it'd be a northern source. Some cultivars you can find that info.