unions

[056kid]

I was down in CA when I saw the line clearance Trees inc. Same company as Asplundh. I stopped to see if I could get a # or an application for some work and the guy told me that of I wanted a shot at a job I had to go to Medford to sign the books. VA is a right to work state so maybe I was out of the loop, but I never expected tree workers to be union. They are under "electrical workers 659" haha. I bet if I signed those books I would find a good job that Friday. . . . . . . . .
. .
what are your opinions on unions?

 

[hammerlogging]

they have their reason for existance and we all have a better life for them.

Unfortunately, they are prone to similar problems as found in politics, non profits, certification bodies, and such.

 

[paccity]

oh, i thought it was about onions.

 

[wowzers]

They had their place in time but now I feel there not necessary.

 

[056kid]

they have their reason for existance and we all have a better life for them.

Unfortunately, they are prone to similar problems as found in politics, non profits, certification bodies, and such.

I have to go through about 4 months of training & other nonsense to even be on "line clearance" status. #### that this boy got skills. . .

 

[madhatte]

I'm with Wowzers; I'm represented by a union whether I want to be or not, bosses are afraid to discipline, many workers get away with #### they never would in a non-union job. Still, I suppose it's nice to know there's a disinterested third part... wait, what's L&I for? What's OPM for? OSHA? HR? Waitaminnit, do those guys just want a bit of my money?

 

[slowp]

They have good points and bad. I used to give ours money until I went to ask our union rep a question and got told I made too much money for him to help. So, I quit.

He was a fire guy.

 

[wowzers]

There is a forester union?

 

[Gologit]

I have to go through about 4 months of training & other nonsense to even be on "line clearance" status. #### that this boy got skills. . .

Yes, you do. But why not pick up a few more? A lot of training is nonsense...but some of it isn't. Take the training, use what you can.

Why not learn something new? You can make a tree fall over with a chainsaw...so can a lot of other people. :msp_wink:

 

[floyd]

Keep your eyes on the prize.

Will you be paid for this training? If it is a union thing I expect you will be paid.

What do non union jobs pay in that area? Are there any non union jobs?

 

[forestryworks]

Yes, you do. But why not pick up a few more? A lot of training is nonsense...but some of it isn't. Take the training, use what you can.

Why not learn something new? You can make a tree fall over with a chainsaw...so can a lot of other people. :msp_wink:

Well said, Bob.

Learning new skills is a must these days. Especially in this economy (our new standard of living).

I finished forestry school in May and I start range management school next week. Why not learn something new, increase my chances of employment?

Besides, if you ever get hurt manufacturing a stump, you'll need something to fall back on.

 

[Samlock]

I've seen the dark side of not having the union jobs (we don't). If you go and ask for more money, they say "There is plenty of jerks coming to your place." And if an another contractor gets somewhere stupid enough people to do the job for even less chips, you'll be out of job in no time.... On the other hand, that kind of job protection is indeed vulnerable to corruption and makes it hard to enter the business.

Well, you can't have it all - if you bow to someone, you'll show your arse to someone else.

 

[bitzer]

Kid, I would not go that route. If you have any ambition at all you will not be happy. I have never worked for Asplundh or the like, but I could never work at that type of pace. SLOW! I'm sure some guy who works there will kick my ass for this, but thats my 2 cents. Also I checked into that several months ago, pay rate is 11-25 bucks per hour. The guys at 25 bucks have been there a long time. My guess is that you would get through all of that training, which some will pay for and you'll still end up as a brush monkey at tht end of the day. Lots of beaurocracy involved I would imagine.

 

[Billy_Bob]

Some unions via their greed and inflexibility have caused businesses to go bankrupt. Or go out of business entirely. Read about Eastern Airlines.

And where possible, companies have moved U.S. jobs outside the U.S. where the wages are lower and they don't have to deal with inflexible unions.

But some union jobs can't be moved outside the U.S. Like jobs with cities, counties, and states. What is happening is some of these are quite broke and can no longer pay money into the retirement pension funds for their workers. (Some unions have demanded very early retirement, health benefits, and high pay for retired workers. Some governments can no longer afford to pay for this. Somethings has got to give!)

Here the US Postal service is going broke...

"Testifying before the Federal Financial Management Subcommittee of the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs, Postmaster General Patrick R. Donahoe said that the financial condition of the Postal Service is such that in the absence of comprehensive legislation, there are required federal payments that are now in jeopardy. “As things stand, we do not have the cash to make a $5.5 billion prepayment for future retiree health benefits due Sept. 30,” he said"
Postal Service Faces Financial Shortfall Unless Congress Addresses Mandates

Here New Jersey does not have the money to pay for their pensions...

"But even with all of those cuts, New Jersey is still facing a $10 billion budget deficit next year, and the state has $46 billion in unfunded pension liabilities and $65 billion in unfunded health care liabilities that it is somehow going to have to address in the future."
Municipal Bond Market Crash 2011: Are Dozens Of State And Local Governments About To Default On Their Debts?

Here they are saying layoffs may be on the way...
"public employers have little choice but to resort to layoffs, furloughs, five-year salary freezes and outsourcing as ways to cut payroll costs to "feed the pension dragon."
Pep Talk for Pension Reform

Bottom Line: Might be a better long term plan to NOT take a union job! (or don't count on having that job forever and don't count on any promised retirement.)

 

[Sport Faller]

My family's steel fab shop was union once upon a time way back when, the only thing I remember was: a whooooole lotta #####in and moaning if somebody had to even think about doing something outside their specified position(i.e. most of the guys were far too high and mighty to clean up or take a delivery out), a lotta money going out to the union and not much love comin back, and pretty much not being able to run your own business for all the rules, guidelines, and stipulations from the union

 

[2dogs]

If you bow to someone, you'll show your arse to someone else.

Not sure what that means but I like it.

 

[Gologit]

Well, you can't have it all - if you bow to someone, you'll show your arse to someone else.

Well said.

 

[056kid]

Yes, you do. But why not pick up a few more? A lot of training is nonsense...but some of it isn't. Take the training, use what you can.

Why not learn something new? You can make a tree fall over with a chainsaw...so can a lot of other people. :msp_wink:

Of course, I guess what I do not want to learn is how to become a flagger & everything involved with that:_mellow:

 

[RandyMac]

Ted, you landed in an area with a long history of high unemployment. I grew up here, good jobs are tough to find.
I lucked out, through high school I worked two maybe three part-time jobs, kept me busy and mostly out of trouble. I took whatever there was, this was a tough time, the mills were closing, logging was just about through. Pretty much the way it is now. The first day out of high school, I chopped off the parental chain and hit the trail. Logging work was sporadic and of limited duration, I traveled a lot, camped out at many of the sites. I had fallback plans, forestry, ranch work, trucking, whatever I could find. I picked up a great deal of experience and knowledge working with small outfits, the wide range of places and people meant learning new things, a ton of gold could not replace what I gained. I did blow off some long term jobs, I left PL because of family interference, I gave LP the finger because I didn't agree with their practices, both would have lasted at least ten years. Instead I took the Knothead's path, spent the better part of 20 years chasin' tail and timber all over Northern California.
The point of the ramble is, take whatever crap job you can find, keep your head up, watch for better things.
A start is all you need, the right work will follow, or hit the trail, be a knothead.

 

[HILLBILLYREDNEC]

Nay to Unions

Watch Some Times a Great Notion Notion Movie. Unions are killing the USA. I agree with RandyMac, take what ever job you can and you will learn a lot of things and have skills to survive when work is scarce. Me I would never do a union job Me I am a free spirit do what ever I want work when I want, not bowing down to some group:hmm3grin2orange: