unions

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Unions are evil rotten mechanisms designed to destroy both the human spirit and this country.

Figured I would go for the honest approach instead of dancing around.

Having been a union member, journeyman, Forman and owner of a union company and now have a non-union company I have been able to throw rocks from both sides of the fence.

Any man who wants rise to the top in any field will not limit himself with the constraints of a union. It handcuffs both the owners and the workers and in my honest first hand experience I would not go down that path unless there where no others
 
As alluded to earlier, unions had their place and time, as did guilds. There are cottage industries now coalescing, such as permaculture, which work well in a guild structure because the members are too few and far-between to function as well alone as they do together. However, neither industry nor government are small and wild enough today that another oligarchy can do much more for their cost than to disrupt. Labor laws now protect the worker from nearly all of the early-industrial era evils that caused the rise of unions in the first place. Unions today are little more than an expensive private club where power is concentrated.
 
As alluded to earlier, unions had their place and time, as did guilds. There are cottage industries now coalescing, such as permaculture, which work well in a guild structure because the members are too few and far-between to function as well alone as they do together. However, neither industry nor government are small and wild enough today that another oligarchy can do much more for their cost than to disrupt. Labor laws now protect the worker from nearly all of the early-industrial era evils that caused the rise of unions in the first place. Unions today are little more than an expensive private club where power is concentrated.

exactly, unions were great in the days before workers comp., workplace safety, and insurance. In the days when someone was injured at work and then simply fired or replaced when they couldn't physically make it to work and when Businesses had almost zero accountability, unions were lifesavers and the only real way for the average workingman to be represented and have a voice
 
All I really have to say is that every time I try to rep someone it says I have to spread it around more. So all of you regulars, trust me, you have a bunch more rep than your tally shows. If I've missed you somehow, its cause I figured I couldn't rep you either and I'd love to.

tried to rep #### the hookers
tried to rep some permaculture- got a funny history with permaulture, ANYTHING
clever ever done on a farm is permaculture!!

Back to onions.
 
ANYTHING clever ever done on a farm is permaculture!!

Got a buddy big on permaculture. Thought it sounded like hippy BS until he made me watch the Sepp Holzer video and all of a sudden I realized that what I'm doing with my timber sales is permaculture. Never had a name for it before.
 
I'll have to read up on permaculture, but am I right to think it is another word for sustainability? And if so, we've been doing it before it was cool.

There's more to it than that. It's an integrated philosophy/process that nurtures land first to maximize yields later, often through multi-storied and multi-seasonal crop allocation. I find that it's liberal enough with its doctrines (e.g machinery is not verboten) and strict enough with its applications (e.g. do you REALLY want to cut there and risk slope de-stabilization?) that I seldom have anything more than picayune issues to complain about. It costs less, does more, and leaves more for later. I'm not formally trained yet, but I hope to be in the next couple of years so that I can begin to apply the principles of Permaculture at the landscape level.
 
One thing to remember is if a company is bidding any kind of public work in California they have to be union or pay prevailing wage (union wages) for the work being preformed. So if the line clearance company does any thing for the state, a city or county they have to contend with that. Most contracts have to go out to competative bid so time is money and profit margins are slim right now so you don't usually see too many guys leaning on a shovel if they want to have a job. Some companies pay prevailing wage for public work and a different wage for private jobs while other places find it easier to go union and just compete for the public jobs.
 
I was in a pipefitters union for over a year. Worked 7 weeks with them in that time. I got tired of paying them for nothing. The wages were way under what non union were paying.
 
Union

When I worked for Asplundh I was in local 2150. I was proud to be union when I started. I worked that job like a non-union member and caught #### for it all the time from my crew and foreman. If I drug too much brush, I'd get hollered at. If I set up tag lines too quickly for felling operations, I'd get hollered at. If I didn't get a ladder down and used my foot ascender to access a tree, I'd get hollered at. You get the point, however, none of the hollering ever stopped me from my work habits, and eventually down the road one of the GF's pulled me aside, said I've gone above and beyond expectations, and made me a journeyman.

I figured all the bs paid off, but my situation didn't change. Instead of dealing with one crews bs, I had to deal with multiple crews bull#### attitudes, so I went to the residential side shortly thereafter where hard work does the talking.

On a different note, I'm a paid on call firefighter and our department is a union shop, and I couln't imagine it anyother way. I guess it all depends on where you are, what kind of people you're dealing with, and what trade your union is representing.
 
Once upon a time, in another life, far far away, I worked for a short time in a union shop. I was given a quota. Now in my razor sharp mind, I figured a quota was the least I was supposed to do. :laugh: That was my mistake.
I was told by my forman that I was making everyone else look bad. :dizzy: Being young, and not understanding the value of brownie points, I told him that they didn't need my help to look bad.
Long story short, I didn't last too long on that job. Haven't had a union job since. But I have had a couple of onion jobs over the years.

Andy
 
I worked in a union shop as a non union welder. They had a 10% reject rate on x ray. Me and 2 others were at 2% and put out the same as their top 3 welders. They didn't like us being in there but they were behind and had too many repairs. They had job security and we didn't. They laid 2 of our guys off the first week for too many bad x rays but was less than a lot of their guys.
 
im in local 659 IBEW for trees inc wouldnt have it any other way i have never been layed off and we get a raise every 6 months when the cost of living goes up so does our paycheck but there are negatives to its alot harder to get rid of the deadweight and the politics but i have a hell of a retirement started for my age and a union pension
 
I've worked at two union machine shops, and boy did they teach me the value of not working as hard as I could. I was actually punished for working harder, faster and with higher quality than other union workers. I couldn't stand the mindset or the lack of work ethic behind the "union way" all they care about is themselves. I always figures if the company made money, then they could pay me better every non-union company paid be as good or better than union shops, because I could make them more money, as I was allowed to work to my potential.

The union figures they should get the money first and to heck with the company. Our economy is seeing the lack of benefits of that theory.

Unions suck in almost any situation. They make being lazy more beneficial than working hard, totally countrerproductive to the proper rules of successful business and life long related ethics.

My experience and opinion,

Sam
 
Update: Something interesting is about to happen with unions...

The US Postal Service is near default. There is even a countdown and web site recently set up for this...
Saving the Postal Service

The Postal Service unions gave 7 million dollars to Congress in 2010, so Congress is "bought and paid for" by the unions...

...but the Postal Service is going broke and MUST fire many of their union workers - or they will run out of money and will go out of business...

...BUT Congress knows they will not be re-elected if they go against unions...

Stay tuned... Here is story about the Postal Service unions...
Postal Unions
 
Watch Some Times a Great Notion Notion Movie. Unions are killing the USA. I agree with RandyMac, take what ever job you can and you will learn a lot of things and have skills to survive when work is scarce. Me I would never do a union job :dizzy: Me I am a free spirit do what ever I want work when I want, not bowing down to some group:hmm3grin2orange:

Bernie Madhoff and the Wall Street villains who caused the financial meltdown we are in the middle of. What union did they belong to?
I can't remember the last time a handful of Union officials stole trillions of dollars from an unsuspecting public.
Does anyone believe that if Unions suddenly all disappeared from the face of the earth, American businesses would stop at nothing to have us all working in sweatshops working 12 hour days, seven days a week for a bowl of rice a day. Isn't that why they move the plants to impoverished third world countries? If they would do that to those people, why wouldn't they do it to us?
Oh, that's right. We would unite and protest.
Unions are a necessary evil. They had their place back then and they have their place now. It is the threat of unionization that keeps American business in line.
Yes, they can be as much a bunch of lying, bottom dwelling scum suckers as any politician, CEO or attorney and often are. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. I would not want to live in a country where they weren't a strong presence.
 

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