Using a truck to pull a tree down

[ropensaddle]

you ever hear that its the easy ones that kill you. as a pro you have to idiot proof as much as possible and when you push your luck recognize it. not unlike running a saw with a broken chain break or hauling a load overweight can be done but you should know your really pushing your luck.

Hey there feller just how are you pulling over trees
you are quick to point out a truck being a no no !
I would like to know what you do to insure enough pull?
The main safety issue with a truck would be not using
a strong enough rope or cable and puttin an idiot behind
the wheel. Idiot behind the saw or idiot supervising job!
I have said this once but just know that the only time I
have ever got in trouble felling a tree was by, not, using a
truck or equipment to pull it over. I don't know who you think
you are but you have not enough experience if you don't
use equipment.

 

[clearance]

I bet most cutters have pulled with trucks, just a short cut seems faster, not better or safer. too many variables, sloppy

Now you say you have pulled trees with a truck, what a complete tool, waste of time mutt, get lost.

 

[lees trees]

Hey there feller just how are you pulling over trees
you are quick to point out a truck being a no no !
I would like to know what you do to insure enough pull?
The main safety issue with a truck would be not using
a strong enough rope or cable and puttin an idiot behind
the wheel. Idiot behind the saw or idiot supervising job!
I have said this once but just know that the only time I
have ever got in trouble felling a tree was by, not, using a
truck or equipment to pull it over. I don't know who you think
you are but you have not enough experience if you don't
use equipment.

I'm just treeman at times with as many 7 3man crews but usually 2 3man crews with one pulled muscle wc claim and no ins. claims in twenty years. plenty of equipment ment to do the job. maybe I need more experience sure always tiring to get better

 

[lees trees]

Now you say you have pulled trees with a truck, what a complete tool, waste of time mutt, get lost.

nice guy

 

[clearance]

nice guy

Thank you.

 

[teamtree]

Clearance...i think you are right about lees....he sure is wishy washy on his stance.

I can certainly understand the guy may have plenty of experience and know how. He is certainly successful in business. He can't argue his point in any fashion other than to make snippy comments.

But hey we have all met people who if you do not agree with them then you are an idiot to them.

I am certainly not an idiot and I think that pulling trees is the smart thing to do in many cases, especially with a pick up truck. It is basic common sense. Say you have a 70' ft. tree with a slight lean. You can probably notch and drop with just wedges but since the homeowner is paying you to drop the tree away from the house you take 5 minutes and install a guide rope about 50' feet in the tree. {Say the tree is 5 tons. You have a 9500 pound truck. You do the math. Do you have enough leverage to pull the tree. Assuming all the conditions are suitable for a pull (i.e. dry ground, not going down hill, etc.) } Instead of two guys pulling...you take 1 minute and tie the rope on your recovery hooks....ok...you get the communication thing down and start cutting...get your notch in the tree....tighten the line....communicate with driver....start your back cut....install a wedge or two...cut until you have your holding wood that you desire....back off the tree...signal the driver...tree is safely on the ground.

So Lees....are you telling me you would climb that very same tree and piece it down. Yeah that would be safer and more reliable. For being in business for 20 years and have so many crews...you sure haven't convinced me.

 

[lees trees]

Clearance...i think you are right about lees....he sure is wishy washy on his stance.

I can certainly understand the guy may have plenty of experience and know how. He is certainly successful in business. He can't argue his point in any fashion other than to make snippy comments.

I looked over everything I wrote if it comes off snippy not my intention even though I have pulled with trucks gotta be ten years ago I felt it was riskier than anchoring to a another tree and winching it over and allot of times especially on really large trees that could be thrown I will piece it down because it has to be cut up anyway and a huge tree thrown to the ground will have allot big branches under stress being even more dangerous you don't have to agree with me you run yours I'll run mine

 

[clearance]

Clearance...i think you are right about lees....he sure is wishy washy on his stance.

I can certainly understand the guy may have plenty of experience and know how. He is certainly successful in business. He can't argue his point in any fashion other than to make snippy comments.

I looked over everything I wrote if it comes off snippy not my intention even though I have pulled with trucks gotta be ten years ago I felt it was riskier than anchoring to a another tree and winching it over and allot of times especially on really large trees that could be thrown I will piece it down because it has to be cut up anyway and a huge tree thrown to the ground will have allot big branches under stress being even more dangerous you don't have to agree with me you run yours I'll run mine

I spend time to explain how to do things safely, in this case a few times. Why you really got on my nerves is you didn't put your cards on the table, you called this method "sloppy" and didn't say you had used this method until well into the thread. This was very weak. Now you say a big tree thrown to the ground will have branches under stress being more dangerous. So, you have no confidence in limbing trees either, its a dangerous business, sounds like you would be better off doing something else.

 

[Timberhauler]

It sounds like this is someone who took a rope,tied it from the ground as high as he could reach,then tied the rope to a 1/2 ton pickup on wet grass and they couldn't get the tree to pull over...If one considers limbing trees from the ground too dangerous,they they do not need to be limbing the tree while it's standing.

 

[teamtree]

lees...i appreciate your response....I, like clearance, felt like you were dogging us for using this method or not putting out your full stance.

I agree with the piecing down the big ones as it will need to be cut up anyway or it may be more dangerous after it is on the ground..good point. I especially like this idea if i am taking the stump out then if you make divets close to the stump you will probably be grind that area out as well so bombing near the base of the tree is an option. Less mess by piecing it down sometimes as well, espcially on dead ones that explode when they hit the ground.

My whole point is that you have to look at the situation and apply the proper method of getting the tree on the ground safely. There is no one way of doing every tree as there or no more than one tree in the same exact spot.

Have a good weekend.

 

[lees trees]

lees...i appreciate your response....I, like clearance, felt like you were dogging us for using this method or not putting out your full stance

wasn't dogging any one, hard to cover everything in a paragraph or two. every job my company does I look for ways to improve. I make more mistakes any of my employees past and present and I take responsibility for them also I work very hard at keeping those mistakes so small that no harm is done. and I believe that some of the techniques mentioned can have catastrophic results because I seen them and most everyone has a horror story themselves

 

[clearance]

I work very hard at keeping those mistakes so small that no harm is done.

How can that be fun? I have forked up bigtime, I learned, life goes on.

 

[ropensaddle]

Ok everyone we all need cranes to be safe and lees
being the concerned gent he is is ready to donate them
to us. Lees my horror story did not happen as a comealong
was not enough pull on one occasion and I hooked up a dangerous
pickup that unsafely fell tree where I wanted it. It would be great
if everyone had a helo or crane but some men in tree biz just
bought their way into it and some earned it by years of work.
I personally don't care if you use a elephant,mule,pickup,crane,
bulldozer or what just make sure it is adequate to do the job
and the rope is near twice the strength of the torque applied.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

How can that be fun? I have forked up bigtime, I learned, life goes on.

So have I. and it has allways been from poor communications, not from how I approached the actual work.

I pull trees from time to time, but as with one handing a chainsaw, it is the exception rather then SOP.

Quite often it is a force that is over applied, breaking ropes, holding wood or having the tree go the wrong way.

In my experience, those who truck pull regularly are the ones who operate in a "cut and pray" fashion.

Though there are those who approach it with a methodical practice, anchor lines, swing lines, compression rigs or a simple pulley in the tree and an anchor on the ground.

(swing line is that practitioners word for a pretensioned line that will cause the tree to pivot away from the initial direction of fall)

 

[lees trees]

Ok everyone we all need cranes to be safe and lees
being the concerned gent he is is ready to donate them
to us. Lees my horror story did not happen as a comealong
was not enough pull on one occasion and I hooked up a dangerous
pickup that unsafely fell tree where I wanted it. It would be great
if everyone had a helo or crane but some men in tree biz just
bought their way into it and some earned it by years of work.
I personally don't care if you use a elephant,mule,pickup,crane,
bulldozer or what just make sure it is adequate to do the job
and the rope is near twice the strength of the torque applied.

I'm sorry I started trimming palms with spikes in 76 at 13 when the other kids were mowing the grass and after 4 years in the service I remembered that I can cut trees this was 87 bought old used junk and made it work for us even my climbing gear. never had anyone I would trust to fly a helo so I never got one. I love crane jobs but I have to rent a company for that. so I'm just working the best I can always improving. I normally agree with you rope just not this time. I understood you parked the truck and use your big winch over rolling the truck to get it down. which is better?

 

[ropensaddle]

I'm sorry I started trimming palms with spikes in 76 at 13 when the other kids were mowing the grass and after 4 years in the service I remembered that I can cut trees this was 87 bought old used junk and made it work for us even my climbing gear. never had anyone I would trust to fly a helo so I never got one. I love crane jobs but I have to rent a company for that. so I'm just working the best I can always improving. I normally agree with you rope just not this time. I understood you parked the truck and use your big winch over rolling the truck to get it down. which is better?

Well my winch is, but I did not always have one and as some of these
guys on here may be starting out and not be blessed with money they
may not have one. What I am saying is using a truck as a tool wisely
does not in any way make you a hack or unprofessional !
I also have spent hours piecing down and still do when conditions
make it necessary. I will pull it over when it makes sense and I determine
it to be safer to pull down than climb or when it is productive and risks
to landscape,lines,fences,etc.are minimal.
To me this is like using a granny stick in a pool match do you put down
the stick on high stakes game and miss the shot just to look good?
I would rather pick up the tool and win. If I have to pull a tree over
I will make certain I have enough pull and strong enough rope cable
to do it safe!

 

[lees trees]

Well my winch is, but I did not always have one and as some of these
guys on here may be starting out and not be blessed with money they
may not have one. What I am saying is using a truck as a tool wisely
does not in any way make you a hack or unprofessional !
I also have spent hours piecing down and still do when conditions
make it necessary. I will pull it over when it makes sense and I determine
it to be safer to pull down than climb or when it is productive and risks
to landscape,lines,fences,etc.are minimal.
To me this is like using a granny stick in a pool match do you put down
the stick on high stakes game and miss the shot just to look good?
I would rather pick up the tool and win. If I have to pull a tree over
I will make certain I have enough pull and strong enough rope cable
to do it safe!

I was hoping for a response like that. you sound from what I read as a top cutter with getting the job done safely #1. probably got 6th sense and can see problems before their dangerous thus putting your abilities above the crowd maybe a reputation if no one else can do it get rope see what he says. Over the years how many guy have you trained? of those how many now have all of your skills? one of my guys had to move and went to work for another company his name sounds like Pony any way good work ethic wanted to be the best never got hurt on my job. a few months into the other job he takes a kick back to the shoulder and ear 64 or8 stitches a little disability not to much 1st day back breaks fingers just let guard down a little. for me if I know a safer way I will recommend it and on my job-sight demand it.

 

[ropensaddle]

I was hoping for a response like that. you sound from what I read as a top cutter with getting the job done safely #1. probably got 6th sense and can see problems before their dangerous thus putting your abilities above the crowd maybe a reputation if no one else can do it get rope see what he says. Over the years how many guy have you trained? of those how many now have all of your skills? one of my guys had to move and went to work for another company his name sounds like Pony any way good work ethic wanted to be the best never got hurt on my job. a few months into the other job he takes a kick back to the shoulder and ear 64 or8 stitches a little disability not to much 1st day back breaks fingers just let guard down a little. for me if I know a safer way I will recommend it and on my job-sight demand it.

The basic skills all the people lasting more than a week usually lasted
a year or so and learned well. I think it takes years to get the degrees
of skill mastered not unlike a black belt in karate learns more after making
that skill level. I have always prided myself knowing that no one under me
has ever been seriously hurt ever on my job in over twenty years.
I have performed the impossible for many years the ones no one
else wanted and have reached a level that stinks. I now know what
to do and am getting older lol. I have to say if I know a safer way
that the customer is willing to pay for I would be using it, and if
I say I have to have a crane, no one better climb it as it is a death
wish! I climbed some in my youth that I would not climb today, one
in particular was a dead pine surrounded by powerlines that had
a large wood pecker hole twenty foot up that went clean through
it,and I had to climb seventy foot up to piece down to prevent
electrocution. I would not climb that tree today I did so without
a problem but I knew I was walking on thin ice but the company
I was working for did not give me the resources ie. crane to my
disposal. That was in the early eighties and the business was different
in those times. I looked at a tree that a crane would make sense
on about a month ago and told the customer they would have to
pay for it if they wanted me to do the job, still have not heard
but just may be the first time I get to employ one.

 

[Brushwacker]

I think I should share this experiance with the tree pullers.
This happened about 25 years ago in my early woodcutting days.
I had a stockpile of logs on a hill near an old abandon homestead that I'd sold to a timber buyer. The older guy that bought the logs saw a huge white oak near where the old house was and insisted we cut it because of its veneer potential, even though we insisted it probably had metal in it. Anyway he brought an 045 with a 25 inch bar next time he come for a load. My dad had a row of old farm equipment to the east of the tree he kept for parts and the tree was leaning that way and there was about 30 mph wind coming from the south. We hooked a cable up to a 930 case tractor (near 100 hp ) and was pulling it to the west. The old guy had me run the saw while he coached me through the cut. I cut for probably 30 minutes + and was not getting to the middle,so I stopped and suggested I go get my c52 homy and mount my 36inch bar to it which I did. Shortly after sinking the long bar in it, it the wood started cracking and I pulled the saw out and headed south with the old guy after signaling the tractor to pull. The tree went south to and the tractor just spun its wheels. Something kept the tree up long enough we got further west out of its way. The upper part of the tree landed on the bottom part of an old corn elevator. The top part of the elevator went down with driving force about the speed the tree was at the bottom of its fall. After it hit the ground I saw the old guys truck driver wallering on the ground near the top of the elavator like a head shot rodent. Thank God it was not what it looked like . Turned out he was grazed enough to knock him down and he had some nasty looking bruising on his side and leg and still drove home. I didn't know he was under the tree when we were cutting. So in the end we not only looked stupid we were. The other point I wanted to expose is the tree went in the least likely direction I thought it could.
I do occasionally pull a tree to this day. I would not recommend inexperianced fallers to get out and do it. If thats what you are going to do get lots of experiance felling first and start with smaller trees first. Remember pulling to soon could cause deadly barber chairs etc, even with small trees.

 

[teamtree]

thanks for getting in on this subject brushwacker....

not trying to bust your chops but you confirmed several of my points....you did not read the situation very well, you did not plan the work and work the plan and you failed to communicate to everyone on the jobsite. I am sure you learned from the experience and took it with you the rest of your career.

How far up in the tree was the rope? Did you have good leverage?

Did you have an even strip of holding wood (from prior inspection)?

Was your plan communicated to the driver? I believe ansi standards require anyone not involved in the procedure to be twice the distance of the target tree away.

I think there was a lady up around Muncie that got killed in an accident as she was within distance of the tree and it fell back on the house and smashed the deck she was on. If they would have insisted to her to stand back they would have prevented a death.

We ask they homeowners to get out of the house and make sure their kids are in a safe place.



Even in if the wind was blowning as hard as you say, it was probably enough to make it a no go on that particular day. It is possible for the wind to swirl and gust and most definitely is too inconsistent to count on helping you.

So as I have stated before the problem with pulling trees is user error not the methodology. I still say if it is done correctly and the proper assessment of the situation is made and the tree is ok to be pulled, the worked is planned and properly communicated, this is a safe way to get a tree on the ground.