Using a truck to pull a tree down

[teamtree]

Getting back to my point earlier...you need to be a professional and assess the situation.

If you assess the situation you should look at the ground conditions (is it wet, muddy, sandy, loose soil). Maybe a winch would work better in these conditions. Maybe you can get a redirect and have the truck going downhill to reduce of the risk of the vehicle getting pulled.

Again, IMO, the method you use to pull the tree is secondary to the cutting technique and communication between cutter and driver. I have learned that the cutting is the most important thing in the whole process. If you get your notch wrong or cut through your holding wood your chances of succeeding are drastically reduced.

But as long as I assess the situation and address all the issues, I will continue to use a pick up truck to pull trees over. I like to work smarter than harder.

Furthermore, I feel by using a truck I can use this method to cut trees safer than either climbing or using a bucket. I am sure I will get many comments about this but it is my opinion.

I would rather pay for a new house than deal with a death of an employee.

I know you can get killed on the ground as well but if you reduce the # of people in the equation and the number of cuts it is safer. One cut and one person in the drop zone. We use plenty of rope and get everyone clear.

I have ground guys that constantly walk into the drop zone without looking up while I am in the bucket. If I don't see them all I will not make the cut. Even if they are at the other truck getting a drink. I just don't want to get anyone killed or badly hurt. I have come to expect this and make sure they are looking up when I cut. We try real hard to be safety minded.

Anyway. I like the truck thing and I will use it whenever the situation calls for it. I will use a winch and other methods.

I don't think it is sloppy at all. I think it is smarter and safer if done properly.

 

[clearance]

I often rig a truck pull with a 2/1 mechanical advantage.

Make no mistake. Pulling with a truck is a big stakes game! Minor mistakes equal thousands of pounds of pull.

Thats right, it is a big deal, best leave it for the men if you don't like it.

 

[lees trees]

Well it sounds like if you can save time and money if you take some chances. :monkey:

 

[John464]

I use a truck on back leaners when I can to drop a spar or a whole tree. If I have 4 guys with a tag line and I don't think they have enough muscle to pull and its a clear shot to drop the tree with additional force. Then we achive the addition force by either a come a long or a truck. If you do not atleast consider the additional force you are not thinking efficiently.

the name of the game on removals is to get them done as efficiently and as safely as you can. Trying to be too safe will dampen your efficiency and trying to be too efficient(in a hurry) will dampen your safety.The proffesional knows how to walk the thin line of both safety and efficiency. The more experienced you get the more tricks you hold in your bag of confidence.

 

[clearance]

Well it sounds like if you can save time and money if you take some chances. :monkey:

Nothing is left to chance, it is impossible to cover all the variables though. I prefer the term "highly calculated risk", sounds better than chance. TeamTree makes some good points, less risk to the guys, I like that.

 

[teamtree]

answer these questions...

do you take a chance when you climb into the tree?

do you take a chance when you climb into the bucket?

can you eliminate all risks, no matter how it is cut?

what are we talking about here, bodily injury or property damage? strike doesn't matter...still think it is safer if the situation calls for a pull

at any rate, I think it is important skill that we (my company) have in our tool bag. I will continue to use it as a technique in cutting trees if the situation allows for it to be done.

I am out on this subject.

 

[Timberhauler]

I have pulled more trees down with either the truck or the skid loader than I care to count...Here are the main factors...

1..Is there room for the tree to fall safely...I've been falling trees many years,and lots of times I'll fall trees into tighter spaces than alot of guys will,but that's beside the point.
2..Escape path...One of the most important
3...How much lean are you pulling against...Any decent pro will know,if there is too much side lean,or too much in the opposite direction,then it's better to climb it and get some weight out....
4...You need good ropes..
5...It's a matter of simple physics...If the tree is standing without too much weight one way or the other and you are able to get a rope in the very top of the tree,and I mean the very top...Say 15 feet below where it meets the sky,then you have huge leverage over that tree.I've seen hundreds,maybe thousands where a couple of strong guys could have pulled it down by hand...So the bottom line is if you're not dealing with too much weight leaning one way or the other and you get a rope as high up in the tree as is safe to pull,then I would have to say the risks involved are much lower than if a climber goes up it and brings it down in peices..As long as the person doing the cutting knows what he's doing....I have also seen many humorous situations where pick-up pulling was involved....Usually it involves people who should not be doing it in the first place..The first biggest mistake is not placing the rope high enough..The second being the truck wasn't on a surface where it could get maximum traction....I assumed most everyone in this particular forum either ran their own business or did this every single day...So it's not very wise for a weekender or hobbyist to come in and tell a business owner he's taking too much of a risk..A smart business owner is well aware of what can happen every time he makes a move.

 

[Timberhauler]

is it possible to loose traction, how many pounds of pull forward how many backwards, on clay? sand? grass? I don't think any one knows at least with rope and saddle's wench you know that you have 8000 or 12000lbs of line pull. hay I just thought is the grass wet? Don't think I've never pulled a tree with a truck. Its just not consistent

That is another variable to consider...If one attempts this where there is no traction,then it's just plain stupid..I've never lost traction using a truck,because we simply won't use a truck where there is no traction...Two weeks ago I fell six poplar trees that were over 36 inches in diameter.Every single tree had an obstacle to clear,a couple of them had a very tight space to fall into.We pulled every single tree with the truck.The particular truck used has a manual tranny,it has over 150,000 miles and it still has the original clutch...I'm gonna laugh about that comment for as long as I can remember it.A good climber or faller with enough years of experience is not going to do anything stupid...I know many very well established tree services and many good fallers.I can't think of one who would think using a truck is too risky..Mind as long as all the variables are in his favor.

 

[lees trees]

18 years ago my little company took over a large removal from a national line clearing co. that sounds like aspl... anyway the reason I got the job was they were pulling a large pine away from a 4 lane hwy truck over pulls tree splits cutter gets thrown into traffic he lives DOT hires us. YES THERES RISK IN TAKING A SHOWER I SAY LIMIT YOUR RISK. you can climb without lines is it wise? maybe someone can show me a osha or ISA publication or recommendation so I might learn the proper way pull trees with road vehicles thanks in advance Lee

 

[ropensaddle]

18 years ago my little company took over a large removal from a national line clearing co. that sounds like aspl... anyway the reason I got the job was they were pulling a large pine away from a 4 lane hwy truck over pulls tree splits cutter gets thrown into traffic he lives DOT hires us. YES THERES RISK IN TAKING A SHOWER I SAY LIMIT YOUR RISK. you can climb without lines is it wise? maybe someone can show me a osha or ISA publication or recommendation so I might learn the proper way pull trees with road vehicles thanks in advance Lee

Well if they would start paying better and quit alienating
their old timers and causing them to quit stuff like that would
not happen. I have worked for line clearance over twenty years
and they keep promoting friends and family sometimes with little
or no experience put them in and get them certified and sorry
but certified is good but does not trump twenty years experience.
I once knew a guy that had a notebook every where he went and
that was his nickname 'notebook' he never really had done an honest
day and got promoted to supervisor and then he thought he knew
what to do on a tree I was planning to fell. He came out and said
I will show you how to fell a tree and I watched this certified idiot
fall it straight into 3phaze and knock half the town out of lights.

 

[clearance]

Good story Rope, I hear ya. Lees Trees, the accident you speak of was a barberchair, I would surmise bad communication between the faller and the guy in the truck. Remember what you have been told here, and this won't happen to you. I know a guy who worked for Orange who was hit by a chair when the truck yarded the tree before he finished his back cut as well. If someone crashes a Corvette because they are drunk, does this make Corvettes dangerous?

 

[Grace Tree]

Who was driving the corvette?
Phil

 

[teamtree]

Lees...i am sorry I said I am done on this subject. You still have not answered my question. You said you have never pulled a tree over with a truck. Have you pulled a tree using any other method?

I still believe using a truck is a perfectly acceptable method. I have never had any problems. Done it hundreds of times and will continue to do so. I have made the decision to rig out many trees when that is what the situation calls for. I will continue to do that as well. I will stick to what I know and I am sure I will be fine. I am sure the same can be said for you. And I am sure people will continue to have accidents doing tree work.

In the case you speak of...it sounds like poor communication, stupidity, poor assessment of situation, failure to plan the work and work the plan. Can't say i have ever had one barber chair due to it being pulled by a truck but then again, I know how to set up the cut so it won't happen. I also communicate with the driver and make sure he understands the signals. IMO, if you barberchair during a pull, you have seriously ????ed up. Point blank.

If you forget to put yoursecondary tie in during a cut while climbing and you cut through your climbing rope....would it be a consensus that the climber ????ed up. Point blank.

So are we really talking about human error in 97% of accidents? Forget about methods.

 

[lees trees]

teamtree you misunderstood me. in my years of cutting trees I have pulled trees with a truck manual and auto I will use any thing to my advantage to bring down a tree I'm going to complete the job yea yea.

 

[joesawer]

teamtree you misunderstood me. in my years of cutting trees I have pulled trees with a truck manual and auto I will use any thing to my advantage to bring down a tree I'm going to complete the job yea yea.

WTF???? You witch and moan. Then come off with an answer like that.
I worked for a pretty big line clearance co many years ago. It was against their rule to even tie a rope to a truck for an anchor. They were trying to make everything idiot proof. Well I am not an idiot and I know how to drive a truck without overheating the torque converter, burning the clutch, breaking the rope, etc,etc. Further more I can recognize these qualities in someone else. If I don't have confidence in their abilities I will not use them in an area above their capabilities.
You sound like you have been thoroughly indoctrinated with the idiot proof BS that is being made into law and crippling this country.

 

[lees trees]

WTF???? You witch and moan. Then come off with an answer like that.
I worked for a pretty big line clearance co many years ago. It was against their rule to even tie a rope to a truck for an anchor. They were trying to make everything idiot proof. Well I am not an idiot and I know how to drive a truck without overheating the torque converter, burning the clutch, breaking the rope, etc,etc. Further more I can recognize these qualities in someone else. If I don't have confidence in their abilities I will not use them in an area above their capabilities.
You sound like you have been thoroughly indoctrinated with the idiot proof BS that is being made into law and crippling this country.

ok smartguy why was it against their rule to tie to the truck at all. not every hourly employee is as smart as you tell me how long does it take to smoke a clutch or torconverter. basicly pushing your luck

 

[lees trees]

Good story Rope, I hear ya. Lees Trees, the accident you speak of was a barberchair, I would surmise bad communication between the faller and the guy in the truck. Remember what you have been told here, and this won't happen to you. I know a guy who worked for Orange who was hit by a chair when the truck yarded the tree before he finished his back cut as well. If someone crashes a Corvette because they are drunk, does this make Corvettes dangerous?

sorry to just now getting back to you. you would surmise right, communication, maybe driver not knowing strength of pull, maybe the cutter didn't cut it enough, still a bad situation. preacher-seat is what we call them. I chain a trunk when necessary. trees are the corvette and the drunk is the truck :hmm3grin2orange:

 

[joesawer]

ok smartguy why was it against their rule to tie to the truck at all. not every hourly employee is as smart as you tell me how long does it take to smoke a clutch or torconverter. basicly pushing your luck

Read my post again. The part about making things idiot proof in particular.
If you don't know what a barber chair is and don't know how to drive a truck without over heating the torque converter, or smoking the clutch, then forgive me. You are absolutely right. You should never, ever, under any circumstances pull a tree with a truck.

 

[lees trees]

Read my post again. The part about making things idiot proof in particular.
If you don't know what a barber chair is and don't know how to drive a truck without over heating the torque converter, or smoking the clutch, then forgive me. You are absolutely right. You should never, ever, under any circumstances pull a tree with a truck.

you ever hear that its the easy ones that kill you. as a pro you have to idiot proof as much as possible and when you push your luck recognize it. not unlike running a saw with a broken chain break or hauling a load overweight can be done but you should know your really pushing your luck.

 

[joesawer]

I don't push my luck. Counting on luck will get you killed.
Now you are trying to argue both sides.
Using a truck in a safe responsible manner, by some one who is capable of using it is not pushing your luck. It can be the safest and most efficient way to do the job. I refuse to make my work idiot proof, because I am not an idiot.