treesurgeon
ArboristSite Operative
Tzed250 said:
1. canola oil does not seem to clog up or cause any problems with oil pumps.
2. stihl bioplus at my dealer is going for $20.00 per gallon.
Vegetable oils for bar lube? Is there really a need for bar specific oil?
- Thread starter rustyb
- Start date
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1. canola oil does not seem to clog up or cause any problems with oil pumps.
2. stihl bioplus at my dealer is going for $20.00 per gallon.
vernalis
ArboristSite Lurker
Wast veg bar oil
I smell like the stuff already, so why not..... revive an old post.
I've been running waste fryer oil in a dirty application saw without major issue given the lack of tack. It (canola) does eat at (some) plastic so if a saw were to set for a long while you might use it up/drain/blend with dino. It can also go rancid if there's water lying about but most of that is settled out and the fats removed in cold filtering.
I would like to use it in primary saws 'cause I just hate to leave the stains lying about the landscape especially in wetted areas where I do watercourse alteration such as bridges and bench cuts. And the New Brunswick fell'er in the other post about adding tack who was talking about skidders, porters (and of interest "circle" and 'shadow' cuts - I wonder if the circle cut is synonymous with patch cutting?) would probably attest to the lack of availability of the veg oil stuff even if anyone could afford to try it. Most regular workers in my neck of the woods continue to use dirty stuff. I'd be pleased to be able to offer a cost competitive alternative to waste motor oil for the bar and chain.
So I've been batting about the question of how to add tack to the WVO and am happy to have found these threads. I would love to find some household OTS kind of thing locally for the tack.. Some suggestions were Algin from seeweed (actually an emulsifier), corn starch..., pectin... tried that; no misc., horse hooves, glue... but so far just batting it about. Learning that there's tack made for plant oils is cool. But I bet the same stuff that goes into dino bar oil would do the trick. Any thoughts as to the availability of other tack products that might work??
I smell like the stuff already, so why not..... revive an old post.
I've been running waste fryer oil in a dirty application saw without major issue given the lack of tack. It (canola) does eat at (some) plastic so if a saw were to set for a long while you might use it up/drain/blend with dino. It can also go rancid if there's water lying about but most of that is settled out and the fats removed in cold filtering.
I would like to use it in primary saws 'cause I just hate to leave the stains lying about the landscape especially in wetted areas where I do watercourse alteration such as bridges and bench cuts. And the New Brunswick fell'er in the other post about adding tack who was talking about skidders, porters (and of interest "circle" and 'shadow' cuts - I wonder if the circle cut is synonymous with patch cutting?) would probably attest to the lack of availability of the veg oil stuff even if anyone could afford to try it. Most regular workers in my neck of the woods continue to use dirty stuff. I'd be pleased to be able to offer a cost competitive alternative to waste motor oil for the bar and chain.
So I've been batting about the question of how to add tack to the WVO and am happy to have found these threads. I would love to find some household OTS kind of thing locally for the tack.. Some suggestions were Algin from seeweed (actually an emulsifier), corn starch..., pectin... tried that; no misc., horse hooves, glue... but so far just batting it about. Learning that there's tack made for plant oils is cool. But I bet the same stuff that goes into dino bar oil would do the trick. Any thoughts as to the availability of other tack products that might work??
Hi,
I'm not certain I fully understand your post but why even worry about tack? You haven't had any problems without and that's the case with a number of people, including myself (I run straight vegi oil in all 4 of my saws w/ nary a issue).
Adding something that isn't needed just seems like an unnecessary step and expense...not to mention the potential health implications...personal & planetary. Does anyone even know what "tack" is? Has its ecological affects been scientifically studied? How about dermal absorption and inhalation?
My winter mix...
Been using 50/50 Stihl bar oil,,and canola oil...Seems to work out good for me,,and it does blend together if you mix it well.......Alot easyer on the oiler during the cold days,,but I wouldnt use it in a day in the 50's and above....Oh,,the viscosity with the canola dont thickin or get cloudy in freezing weather....Been workin good for me so far.......
Been using 50/50 Stihl bar oil,,and canola oil...Seems to work out good for me,,and it does blend together if you mix it well.......Alot easyer on the oiler during the cold days,,but I wouldnt use it in a day in the 50's and above....Oh,,the viscosity with the canola dont thickin or get cloudy in freezing weather....Been workin good for me so far.......
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Zackman1801
ArboristSite Guru
i dont get why people keep saying that the vegtable oil dont work, i mean if someone is saying they used it for 3-4 years and it has the exact same effects as using regular oil, then how can it be bad? Just because it does not have the same composition does not mean it wont work.
The short answer is tradition or a locked-in conservative mindset :monkey: . Many people, regardless of logic or scientific evidence, just simply refuse to change their habits. They want familiarity and what the marketing people tell them they "need". It's a strange psychological phenomenon that occurs in all facets of life.
Bailey's has Arborol. I asked Gregg a question about it in Bailey's forum.
vernalis
ArboristSite Lurker
Dirty pants
Uh, the smell lingers on you when you filter a lot of the stuff.
I don't want it to fling off like crazy even if it is biodegradable and a waste resource
that's why I wanna add tack. I found it got on my pants a LOT. When I'm in eco-sensitive Nova Scotia I'll see if the shops carry the bio ready made oil and may be blend it. Try $35CAD a gallon on for size. Any hosers know cheep bio bar oil manufacturers?
Click on the 'here' link to see the thread on adding tack.
V
<may be it sticks better when it's fresh out da bottle>
Uh, the smell lingers on you when you filter a lot of the stuff.
I don't want it to fling off like crazy even if it is biodegradable and a waste resource
that's why I wanna add tack. I found it got on my pants a LOT. When I'm in eco-sensitive Nova Scotia I'll see if the shops carry the bio ready made oil and may be blend it. Try $35CAD a gallon on for size. Any hosers know cheep bio bar oil manufacturers?Click on the 'here' link to see the thread on adding tack.
V
<may be it sticks better when it's fresh out da bottle>
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treesurgeon
ArboristSite Operative
canola oil
still using canola oil. in all the saws except the larger saws. tends to dry up in some types of woods with the larger saws but not in any of the small ones.
another plus, its cheaper than most bar oil.
still using canola oil. in all the saws except the larger saws. tends to dry up in some types of woods with the larger saws but not in any of the small ones.
another plus, its cheaper than most bar oil.
This may be the solution that y'all are looking for - it is water based to keep our environment from turning to crap and it uses a thick gel formula for lasting lubrication that stays where needed, just like the Stihl stuff with the tackifier. Suitable for all uses including carving, limbing, and general bucking, but particularly well suited for felling and butt end work.
GASoline71
Mr. Nice Guy
job247
ArboristSite Lurker
I take it computeruser is a little "anal" about what he uses for bar and chain lube
...sorry..had to say it. I was wondering about lighter oils having more sling off than regular bar and chain oil. I have never used anything other than regular chainsaw oil.
...sorry..had to say it. I was wondering about lighter oils having more sling off than regular bar and chain oil. I have never used anything other than regular chainsaw oil.I take it computeruser is a little "anal" about what he uses for bar and chain lube
All oils, tack or not, sling off. If they didn't, think how heavy your saw would get after a few hours of cutting. Where do people think the bar oil goes after it disappears from the saws oil tank? It sure doesn't stick around or the saw would become this heavy unrecognizable glob of oil.
It has been four yrs since I started this thread. In that time, I have not used anything but straight vegi oils in all four of my saws. Besides that personal experience and not experiencing ANY of the so-called issues, I have given this a lot of thought and conversed with others who have used straight vegi oil far longer than I have and in professional day in and day out settings...with the same positive results as me. That said, and I know I'm not going to win any popularity contests for saying this here....but, I believe those still using the specialty bar oils, including the bio stuff, are just simply being hoodwinked and are having their wallets unnecessarily vacuumed by the marketeers.
Besides that, straight vegi oils have scientifically been proven to be healthier (than petrol based oils) for both the user and the eco-system. Adding all this up, what more do people need/want?
In reality though, there will always be those unwilling to change their minds for the simple fact they do not want to be associated in any way with a movement that could be perceived as being enviro, green or whatever one wishes to call it. That stuff's for sissies, gays and/or liberals... and by damned, they're much too tough for that regardless of logic or science. :monkey:
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job247
ArboristSite Lurker
Well Rusty, it sounds like you have proven vegtable oil works just fine. Looks like I will be trying it in the near future also as it will definately save some money and being environmentally friendly dosent hurt either. It just irritates me how some are pushing their so called environmentally crap just to make money when it really isnt environmentally friendly at all. Although your idea is a sound and proven idea and is environmentally friendly at that so I applaud you for letting others know it works. Thanks!
Thank you. But it really isn't just me who has proven that straight vegi oils work. I got the idea from the poster Tree Machine on this forum. Tom Dunlap and others here have also used it with success. Also, for what it's worth, from what I have been reading, more and more carvers are using straight vegi oil as well...and with success.
Just remember this. This (& many other things) isn't just an environmental thing. Yes, straight vegi oils are healthier for the environment but they are healthier for the user too...in terms of misting inhalation and dermal absorption. I can post links to studies if I didn't already some where in this long thread. It's been a while.
job247
ArboristSite Lurker
I went back and read some other threads from other people and it sounds like veggie oil is catching on quite rapidly. I see your point in that it is healthier as far as breathing and getting it on exposed skin. I cant wait to try it myself. Looks like it is veggie oil for me!
Tree Machine
Addicted to ArboristSite
Trying it yourself is how you really know.
And that genius of an idea came from my wife, Elizabeth. Poor girl has asthma, and environmental sensitivities, and I'm a treeguy. See the obvious problem? She asked me point-blank one day, "Why don't you just use vegetable oil?" I'm like, "ya can't..... it's gotta have tack in it."Rusty said:
She's relentless. "Tack..... what for?"
"It makes the oil sticky."
"So you need this bar oil to be sticky"
"Yah."
"I thought it needed to be slippery."
"Yah."
"Sticky and slippery."
"Yah."
"That makes no sense to me?"
"Yahh?"
"I understand why you need it slippery, buy why sticky?"
"It stays on the bar better."
"If it's sticky?"
"Yah."
"It stays on the bar better if it has tack in it and it's sticky."
"Yah."
"Sticky, but slippery."
"Yah."
"But don't you fill-up a tank of this sticky oil every time you fill up with gas?"
"Yah."
"So more of it stays on the chain if it has tack in it."
"Yah."
"Hmmm."
"You're not satisfied with that answer, are you."
"Only because it makes no frickin sense, at all. If more of it stays on the chain, where on the chain does it stay?"
"Well, since you put it that way...."
"Where does it go, Mr Tree Expert husband, Huh? Where does the oil go?"
"Uhhh, mmm..."
"I'll tell you where it goes, it goes flying off the bar while you're using it and out into the environment. The rest is on your frickin pants and stinks up my laundry room and its all on your saws and tools and it smells like an oil refinery around here and it makes me not want to be nice to you, if you know what I mean."
"awww baby, what can I do?"
"TRY THE GOL DANG FRICKIN CANOLA OIL!"
Then she really started attacking the whole industry, based on her one tank in=one tank out fact, like they've brainwashed us treeguys into using toxic crap in our saws for their benefit, and how big oil is controlling the saw manufacturers to say that petro oil with tack is necessary, and that they put tack in it just so you won't just use 10-W40 motor oil.
She was on a rant, guys;
"So have you ever thought they might be taking the crappiest, low-grade, bottom-of-the-barrel petroleum crap oil, then they add stickiness to it and sell it to you? By making everyone think tack is necessary, they have a consistent market for their sub-grade nasty.
And you guys believe this???"
"Baby,...its like..."
"SHEEP! You're all a bunch of frickin ShEEP!"
"Uh, darlin..........
"Do you love me, boy.....?"
"Yahhhhhh."
She pointed out some indisputable things, in and amongst the conspiracy theory. Really had their balls over the barbeque, if ya know what I mean.
It made me think, "OK, well, why not?" Actually it was seeming like I had everything to lose if I didn't change.
So that was 7 years ago. Dunlap and others knew this long before me.
JONSEREDFAN6069
Wheeler McDealer
i tried it on one of my cheap bars and it seemed to fly off the chain and i had more oil on me than on the bar. so i turned down the oiler from 3 to 2 same thing, went down to 1 same thing only a little less so i figured what the hey
lets give it a whirl. ended up smoking the bar i know it's only a $60 dollar 20" power match but...... i'm not gonna use it on my cannon or gb, i'm gonna stick with my regular old tacky summer grade bar oil. at least i tried it.
lets give it a whirl. ended up smoking the bar i know it's only a $60 dollar 20" power match but...... i'm not gonna use it on my cannon or gb, i'm gonna stick with my regular old tacky summer grade bar oil. at least i tried it.
