Video: Adjusted gun/tapered hinge experiment

[clearance]

There are people of all skill levels that read here. Some whose head this will all go right over, some who might learn somethings, and some who think they know it all and still won't understand the subtleties of the art of felling.
Clearance might fit into the third category. He's known since he was a teenager that he should use tapered hinge on leaners, but misses the point on these tapered hinge vs. adjusted gun arguments. Even some of the most published "experts" disagree on the subject.

I am not a faller, faller is a big word means a lot, many people think they are fallers, not. What I mean is why is the "tapered hinge" not in Arborist 101? I am amazed some don't agree with its worth, I guess thousands of fallers are wrong?

 

[smokechase II]

Root pull

B-Edwards:

I'm gonna suggest that root pull should be under a separate heading. Pretty powerful stuff, a root that lines up with a back-cut being completed in some manner.
"The root happened to be beside the hinge and I cut very low." That is the most common instance.
Generally, potential to root pull is something to be removed, rather than utilized in the training I've received. Removal is by cutting the root as low as possible prior to any falling cuts above or near it.
Those that can utilize root pull predictably are better, more experienced fallers than I.

A similar story to yours is a 16" or so diameter burl on the side of a dead 90 foot tall/28" dia. Ponderosa Pine.
The cutter did an essentially perfect job of face direction, even back cut/ hinge etc. Except he placed the face into the bottom of the burl.
It appeared the burl, being a denser stronger wood - even though this was a dead tree, pulled the Pine over to its side by about 4-5-6 degrees. My suggestion to the cutter was move down the tree next time and avoid the burl altogether.

Ekka:
What we are taught locally and I believe you may find to be true. Is that the wood from the start of the butt swell, is denser and stronger, the lower you go. It is holding the tree up, providing both support vertically and resistance to being blown over.
When cutting this wood at the trees base, it is harder to saw through.
(Framers; before nail guns, used to be able to tell quickly when they had the end of a board that came from the butt of the tree.)
So the roots and very bottom of the butt remain wetter longer and maintain strength that way. You bet.
They also are just very strong, within the context of their species.

 

[John Ellison]

That is hard to believe a training course that says a tapered hinge is inefective. Unless they are talking about a tree that is being pulled with a line and has a line set to counter the lean. Heck, if you have enough lines set you would not even need a hinge. This isnt an arb. attack, just think we might be talking about two different things.
A faller working a clear cut will start at the bottom of his strip and work up. Most all of the trees [ usually ]will lean downhill. To keep from breaking timber and maintain a lead the timber has to be fell parallel to the slope. At least most of the time. This means you are always falling to one side or the other of the head lean. You will be using some kind of a tapered hinge [more holding wood on uphill side than on lower side] or else you will be pounding on wedges till the cows come home or you will lose a lot of trees.[ hinge is too thin on the uphill side, breaks early and the tree falls straight downhill and makes a big mess.
Someone mentioned that a tapered hinge will break earlier on the thicker or uphill side. I believe that is just because the uphill side is doing all the work, just because it starts to break earlier on the outside dosnt mean its not doing its job. The lower side is being compressed and is hardly doing any work at all.

 

[trevmcrev]

I've used the tapered hinge for the past 16 years and in my experience it does not steer the tree.

Dan

Then I have to ask, WHY DO YOU USE IT? Or have you now ceased to use it?
Why did you do something for 16 years that was not working?

Trev

 

[clearance]

Nice Video!
I have never used wedges!

Never? Hmmm, why not?

 

[trevmcrev]

I use it to give a little stronger hinge when a tree has a side lean to the direction I want it to fall.

Dan

Soooo, if your tapered hinge helps a tree to fall where YOU want rather than where IT naturally may go without employing this technique and relying on the face cut alone, then would it not be fair enough to say......................

It works.

Trev

 

[Ekka]

OK, couple of things.

It was said earlier the fibres at the back of the hinge break first ... of course. As the thicker side of the tapered hinge has more fibre further back they will break sooner.

But at the same time the work those fibres were doing was resisting a sideways breakage. For example the tree not falling straight down the hill.

Anyway.

I did another video, only had stupid palms but it proved the point yet again. Actually it was handy having palms as they are symetrical and straight so little else plays with the felling direction.

Here you go, around 5mins and 23.5mb wmv

www.palmtreeservices.com.au/video/piecuts2.wmv

I did two, one with just a tapered hinge ... the other I kept cutting the hinge away on one side as it was falling to show that as mentioned earlier that is a way (although risky) to have a little control over the direction of fall.

By the way, I was also taught that a tapered hinge opposite the lean was an effective way of having a little extra support to prevent losing the tree off to the side.

What I am trying to do now is see if that tapered hinge changes the fall direction ... and you need straight symetrical trees to do that (pines etc)

All good stuff, getting slow motion video is good, I do prefer shots from the back but couldn't in this case coz was a house there.

 

[Spockbob]

I've been felling for about 35 tears, some virgin timber, dead trees and hollow. I use a tapered back cut all the time. It doesn't turn the tree, but helps to keep the load bearing side from failing. Try felling a hollow tree with a lean, I have left 6-10 inches on one side and 3-4 on the other, and not had one fail yet. Just remember to never cut one side off completely.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

I've been felling for about 35 tears, some virgin timber, dead trees and hollow. I use a tapered back cut all the time. It doesn't turn the tree, but helps to keep the load bearing side from failing.

With a leaner, the tapper strengthens the hinge and makes the tree fall in the direction of the face cut, but with a perfectly straight tree, tapering the hinge will steer the tree somewhat. When cutting a tree without lean, and using a tapered hinge, the tree will fall somewhere between the angle of the face cut and the back cut.
This shows the taper steers the tree.

 

[joesawer]

IMO the tapers in the video were not enough to turn the trees out off the face.
Any one who thinks that a tapered hinge will not swing a tree is sadly lacking in practical experience.
A slightly tapered hinge to keep the tensile strength higher on the tension side of a leaner is just basic common sense.
Swinging a tree is a whole different game and has a lot more tricks than just a tapered hinge. turning or swinging trees does not have very much practical application in residential arbor work, it is just to inconsistent.

 

[rbtree]

Bump for this very good thread.

I was not impressed at all by the Arbormaster training guys who follow Tim Ard's methods. Open face, bore cuts on all trees regardless of favor, and saying a tapered hinge doesn't work.

bollocks!

 

[Nailsbeats]

Well, I will throw my 2 cents in here.

My dad taught me to hold one side on a leaning tree aka a tapered hinge. He does this in the woods and will steer a tree around obstacles as it falls by adjusting the taper. It isn't a major amount, but it does affect it and give you the desired result. In the thick stuff I use a low notch so the hinge breaks early and the tree is allowed to roll through the fall.

It works, just watch the top and make slight adjustments early on in the fall. Like he says, "sometimes you need to walk the top over to get around something and then bring it back."

 

[BillC]

I work in mostly residential areas and will use a tapered hinge leaving more wood on the strong non leaning side. This is not to steer the tree (for me at least) but to add a little insurance that the hinge does not break too early from the stress of the lean and cause it to veer away from the aim of the notch. Especially true when the bar is too short for the full back cut in one pass where you are cutting the weak side first and finishing on the uphill side. Great thread and it is nice to hear the info from the seasoned pros out there.

 

[secureland]

How do I view Ekka's Videos?

A special program?

 

[ray benson]

Just click on the link in his first post. It plays in Windows Media Player.

 

[treemandan]

I couldn't get to see Ekka's video and all this reading has just, well, not helped.
So, I guess a tapered hinge is when you just cut more of the hinge wood on one side? Oh, that's all?
Hell, if you drop em slow enough you can steer em pretty good. Sometimes I make it go one way then another BUT it will only steer when its still relatively standing up, once it starts to go it goes.
I swear to God I drove a tree around one to one side then tucked it back to the other. it really depends on the tree though.
One time the boss was notching the tree I had just stripped out and it started to go towards a shed( he was alittle off, it happens). The other two guys bailed but I sucked the slack out of the pull line and ran in the other direction with it. I was able to pull the falling spar ( pretty big) off its course of diaster enough to save the day... again. I wouln't of had to if he had steered it better.
Adjusted gun/ tapered hinge? Oops, I thought I had invented that.Sorry.

 

[treemandan]

Bump for this very good thread.

I was not impressed at all by the Arbormaster training guys who follow Tim Ard's methods. Open face, bore cuts on all trees regardless of favor, and saying a tapered hinge doesn't work.

bollocks!

That is what was confusing me. I thought everybody was hip to a tapered hinge. Works great! Bore cuts on the other hand...

 

[treemandan]

How do I view Ekka's Videos?

A special program?

didn't work for me but all I know is point and click ( maybe a #### site or two).
I have been reading this for months trying to figure out what everybody was talking about.
Its just leaving more hinge wood on a particular side... I think.

 

[ray benson]

I sent Ekka a PM to see why the his videos aren't working.
If I click on the link it doesn't work. Get this error
This program cannot read this webpage format
HTTP 406
What you can try:
Go back to the previous page.

More information

This error (HTTP 406 Not Acceptable) means that this program was able to receive information from the website you visited, but the information was not in a format that it can display.
.................................................................................

But if I right click on the link and open it in another tab the video works.

 

[Tr33Climb3r]

Very cool and interesting to watch your techniques.....a lot different from my dad and mines