Wannabe Tree Trimmers

[lxt]

Hire me, just wanna learn.

Anyone tired of hearing this? I see posts in the employment forum with remarks like what is stated above.

I landscape, I rec. climb, I rock climb AAHHWW horse S@#t

I hired a guy who said the same things(must be a book for it) start em off as a groundie $11.50 hr to start with all the trimmins Ins, comp, 90 days paid holidays well ya know etc, etc.....

all I hear I wanna climb, I wanna climb(dude) soooo I put em up mind ya Im up there with him, nice silver maple(if possible) not a bad tree 2hrs later can I go down 2hrs of huggin the damn thing for life & now he wants to go down!!!

next day, you got it!!! telephone rings & I hear dude tree trimmin aint my bag, im goin back to construction click.. I call em back & tell em this takes time explain it to him yadda yadda yadda.

for all you who post & wanna enter this field, this is not an easy job!! you want experience but not the work to gain it!! you want your own biz, but not the know how you think its all $$$$$$$, it can be but first you must pay your dues. if your not serious & think this is easy WAKE UP!!!

in the mean time stay outta my world & others with the trade talent cuz Im sick of re-doing your work!!

good day,

LXT...............................:chainsawguy:

 

[NickfromWI]

Woahhhh...easy tiger. You were very kind to give the guy a chance. There is no way for a person to know if they're up for the challenge...until they actually get UP in a tree. Good for him for trying.

You took the risk hiring on someone with NO experience. You coulda ended up with a gem. That's not what you got. I don't think it's something worth telling all new-comers to the field to GO AWAY for. If no one ever tried climbing, we'd all be groundies!

love
nick

 

[Treeinnovator]

well said !!!

or how about the ones who climb and think they deserve to be pampered like a celebrity and don't want to lift a finger after they get down.
"i'm a climber, i don't drag brush" i hear that way too much.

 

[Treeinnovator]

here's what i do to solve the occasional "i wanna climb" guy. start him as a groundie. if he wants to climb throw him up in a tree after hours on his time unpaid.
you'll find out right there if he's afraid of heights, etc. PLUS you get some trimming done for FREE.

 

[Ax-man]

It has been a very long time since I have had to hire anyone, but when I did it was always the guys that said that they could do it all so to speak that didn't have a clue as to what the job entailed. They were always blowhards with big mouths that never worked out for long, caused more problems because they always thought they knew more than I did and wanted to play boss and tell me what to do and how to do it, guys like this didn't last too long. I always found the guys who were honest by saying they would give the job a try just to see how it would work out and were a little on the quiet side worked out best over the long run.

I too have seen all these wannabe tree trimmers wanting to start their own business, read their credentials of how they haved worked with saws cutting firewwod, are willing to work hard, are fit to do the work, do trees on the side at present ect. ect. ect. I see the same line of -------- from these guys as the ones who try to bluff their way into getting a job. I have no idea what the big attraction is to having your own tree biz other than it maybe looks good from the outside looking in. Which is way far from the way it really is.

Larry

 

[Treeinnovator]

I too have seen all these wannabe tree trimmers wanting to start their own business, read their credentials of how they haved worked with saws cutting firewwod, are willing to work hard, are fit to do the work, do trees on the side at present ect. ect. ect. I see the same line of -------- from these guys as the ones who try to bluff their way into getting a job. I have no idea what the big attraction is to having your own tree biz other than it maybe looks good from the outside looking in. Which is way far from the way it really is.

Larry

i hear that all the time. "i wanna go into the tree biz, you just made $1500 in one day"

yeah buddy, and it also took $100,000 worth of equipment to get it done that way !!!

best is on the stump grindings. they have absolutely no clue how much those grinders cost. all they see is that a customer paid $100 for a little stump and 10 minutes of work.

 

[Jumper]

here's what i do to solve the occasional "i wanna climb" guy. start him as a groundie. if he wants to climb throw him up in a tree after hours on his time unpaid.
you'll find out right there if he's afraid of heights, etc. PLUS you get some trimming done for FREE.

You must be kidding! And if he hurt himself doing it you would be the first to say SOOOO SORRY, he was not on company time. Reputable organizations are very interested developing employees, ON THEIR NICKEL, not the employee's.

And once again, you get what ya pay for, first place I worked for our boss V decided that my fellow groundman needed to start doing some small prune jobs, and IMHO Dan would probably have done OK as a climber, given time and training. But right off the bat he told V he was not gettinginto any tree for $10 an hour, he would need $12. I ended up driving him off the property to the bus, a REALLY stupid shortsighted decision on the part of V. Big deal another $80 a week in pay, and you might have had an employee that was keen and eager to learn the trade. No way could not afford it, but these people could afford fast food every night because his slob of a wife was too lazy to cook real food. The business went tits up shortly thereafter.

On the other hand I know I was not hired at several companies because I was honest and up front with them, I really did not want to learn to climb a tree in my mid 40s. I have no doubt I can do it, but not my bag, I had enough of extreme heights in the Army to last a lifetime.

 

[lxt]

I did give him credit & talked with him for awhile about the time it takes to be proficient in this trade, he just saw the paydays & for some reason thought all that $$$$$ was mine.

I am looking for someone to train as trying to grow my business takes time away from the field for me to sell future jobs.

Im not trying to deter anyone from this trade, I have tested the waters with a few people who fit the definition of what ax-man stated, most in my area just want the money!! thinkin its easy.

I dont mean to sound bitter, but when I have to go to a customer who hired lawncare joe with his zero turn radius mowers, craftsman chainsaws & extension ladders that butchered up the crimson king in the front yard, its kinda sad.

or when they get thrown off the property & I get called in to fix it, they show up protesting, I talk to em to find out they have no experience & wanna know how or why I do it the way I do & if I can show em so they dont F@#k up the next persons tree. NICE UHH?

so I guess these are the cotractors or wannabes Im talkin most about, didnt mean to offend anyone especially legit contractors. the other wannabes I stand firm on saying go else where, sorry!!

LXT...............

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

As with any newhire you need winnow the chaff, to many small biz owners try to make it work with a guy.

If you get a bad feeling, get soemone new. String guy A along till you find guy B then let guy A go. Nothing personal, just buisness.

Do it all over again till you find people that click with you. You may need to work to halfassed workers till you find a whole one, but in the long run you will be happy.

 

[treevet]

I agree w "it s a business so....." . Sometimes you try to make them projects and it never works and leaves you worn out. Bringing them back never works either. The last ten employees or so I ve had that crapped out all have later asked for their jobs back and two of them have even cried (literally) to get job back. They didn t know they had it so good. I ve tried a few times and was worse than before.

Training a climber, and I ve trained quite a few, always worked best for me when I d just take them up, after preliminary stuff, in a big prune like a pinoak w a lot of scaffold and constantly give advice and answer questions.

 

[Rftreeman]

how the heII is someone supposed to know if they will like climbing until they try and how would you know until you let them try, I wish I had a dollar for every time someone told me "this is not for me, I'll be a groundie" I've had more tell me they weren't meant to climb than I have that made it as climbers, you must be very young.

 

[treevet]

how the heII is someone supposed to know if they will like climbing

By the time they reach you (at least 18 to work) they know if they have got the balls to do something that challenges an innate fear. They let the class bully push them around w out smacking him one and then taking a beating, or not. They dove of a cliff or high diving board. They stood in front of a fullback, giving up 50 lbs. and ankle tackled him. They spoke up when a popular group was slamming a friend of his who wasn t in w them. They got on a motorcycle and ran it up to 140 plus mph and laughed inside the helmet. What else do you say, the employer can t possibly know but the guy asking to climb sure should by then if he is honest w himself.

 

[Rftreeman]

I didn't know until I tried if it was for me or not, not everyone knows for sure not everyone was a daredevil in their younger years, I sure wasn't, my foreman asked me if I thought I was ready and I said yes and I went by my self, no one with me and found out that I really liked climbing.

 

[clearance]

how the heII is someone supposed to know if they will like climbing until they try and how would you know until you let them try, I wish I had a dollar for every time someone told me "this is not for me, I'll be a groundie" I've had more tell me they weren't meant to climb than I have that made it as climbers, you must be very young.

True.
The first times I climbed I was scared, not scared to admit it now though. I was scared, had to force myself to do it. I had been running saws for years, had worked many tough jobs, but climbing 60' up a tree and coming down on the tautline I hoped I tied right took a lot. I wasn't sure, the only thing that kept me going was willpower, now I have climbed to 180', climbed many skinny, scummy trees over or above three phase power lines and its no big deal. So, its not about liking it to begin with, its getting past the fear/survival instinct that keeps you on the ground and getting up the tree. I have nothing against those that won't do it, at least they tried. Be patient LXT, most people think we are a little bit crazy to do what we do, it sure ain't for everyone.

 

[treevet]

I m wrong in your case then rf.

 

[treevet]

True.
The first times I climbed I was scared, not scared to admit it now though. I was scared, had to force myself to do it. I had been running saws for years, had worked many tough jobs, but climbing 60' up a tree and coming down on the tautline I hoped I tied right took a lot. I wasn't sure, the only thing that kept me going was willpower, now I have climbed to 180', climbed many skinny, scummy trees over or above three phase power lines and its no big deal. So, its not about liking it to begin with, its getting past the fear/survival instinct that keeps you on the ground and getting up the tree. I have nothing against those that won't do it, at least they tried. Be patient LXT, most people think we are a little bit crazy to do what we do, it sure ain't for everyone.

I just think it is all about breaking through barriers. Seems to me that you have to had to break them in other ways when young (or not) to qualify yourself to keep doing it. Then it becomes addictive and the love of fear that gives the rush.

 

[clearance]

I just think it is all about breaking through barriers. Seems to me that you have to had to break them in other ways when young (or not) to qualify yourself to keep doing it. Then it becomes addictive and the love of fear that gives the rush.

Thats interesting. I don't like to admit to the "rush", but its there, I don't do real stupid things, but I like doing doing things that have potential for mayhem if something goes wrong. There is a real satisfaction (rush I guess) in doing those things succesfully. I guess I justify the heavily calculated risk taking many ways but really its about satisfying myself. Some of it you don't want to admit, like dominoing trees, fast cutting tops beside powerlines so they drop straight down, falling big trees beside houses or lines with no rope in them. Stuff like that, I like removals, I like being in control and making sh&t happen. It took a while to get the confidence, and I know there is always more to learn. But you have to be honest with yourself, and I guess I will have to pay the piper when I roll the dice once to often.

 

[treevet]

Thats interesting. I don't like to admit to the "rush", but its there, I don't do real stupid things, but I like doing doing things that have potential for mayhem if something goes wrong. There is a real satisfaction (rush I guess) in doing those things succesfully. I guess I justify the heavily calculated risk taking many ways but really its about satisfying myself. Some of it you don't want to admit, like dominoing trees, fast cutting tops beside powerlines so they drop straight down, falling big trees beside houses or lines with no rope in them. Stuff like that, I like removals, I like being in control and making sh&t happen. It took a while to get the confidence, and I know there is always more to learn. But you have to be honest with yourself, and I guess I will have to pay the piper when I roll the dice once to often.

Hope and doubt that dice thing never happens to you. I m w you on all that. A lot of days I got to give a late estimate so I get on my 130 hp sportsbike and go into rush hour traffic on I 75 so I can get home and eat and chill. Like tree work you cannot make any (any) mistakes and get away with it weaving thru at sometimes 100mph or so. But like tree work, you got the power (power of bike and power being knowledge and experience in tree work) and you wouldn t be yourself and maybe even more wreckless if you tip toed around the damn thing.

I m going to crash (bed, not highway). Later.

 

[SinglerM]

i hear that all the time. "i wanna go into the tree biz, you just made $1500 in one day"

yeah buddy, and it also took $100,000 worth of equipment to get it done that way !!!

best is on the stump grindings. they have absolutely no clue how much those grinders cost. all they see is that a customer paid $100 for a little stump and 10 minutes of work.

You've got that right, Tree.

People don't see the initial investment that allows you to get the work done to begin with.

Mitch

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

You've got that right, Tree.

People don't see the initial investment that allows you to get the work done to begin with.

Mitch

That guy believes in investing in his gear, but thinks people are expendable commodities like saw blades and ropes. "Ive got 300k in equipment and have a sucker of a leadman who will take less then $10 an hour, and he can do everything!"

I have no problem with starting them low and then kicking them up if they work, or out if they do not. "pay commensurate with demonstrable skills"

My way of training is to put them in a big crab apple or a smal Norway maple so they can get used to the rope and saddle.

Tie a bo'lin right to the saddle so they have a minimum of things to worry about. At that time thier job is to become familiar with the gear, and comfortable with being off the ground, not production.

Training is an investment in the asset that is the employee, so you need to loose a little on those simple gain on future jobs.

Some people do not have the patiance to train, they forget their own learning curve, or had skill sets that made it easier.

Most workers are not the adreniline junkies, but do enjoy a little risk. What they have to do is build the confidance in the equipment to be able to enjoy the work. My problem with the true risk takers is that they often become over confident, do a lot of "cut and pray" manuvers vs calculated risk. Too much free climbing, and not building the method of habitual safety where one checks attatchments and looks up down , left and right before the final cut.