Wannabe Tree Trimmers

[Rftreeman]

things sure have changed over the last 19 years, I can't believe some of the baby sitting that goes on these days, I never had anyone come up a tree with me nor have I ever went up with one, my foreman asked me if I thought I was ready to climb (this was 1988) and I said yes so I was shown on the ground how to tie my knots, the rope had the old snap on it, the kind without locks, I got use to the saddle and learned the basics by going up and down about 6 feet on a small tree then went up a 60 foot pine without a lanyard (just didn't use them back then) and side trimmed it with a hand saw, using that hand saw was the only precaution the foreman used with me, that was so I could get my balance and stuff right before using a small super 2 with one hand. that's just the way it was done then, the only thing I do different today is using a lanyard going up. I don't do much climbing these days, I am a fat bastard now, 290 lb, I may still do a take down every now and then just to stay sharp so to speak, I wouldn't want to be out and a climber get hurt and I can't get to him, that would really suck.

 

[Treeinnovator]

things sure have changed over the last 19 years, I can't believe some of the baby sitting that goes on these days, .

blame it on sega, rap music, and the boomer parents. the twentysomething generation is lazy and un-hire-able these days. they want $80k a year to be a "gangsta" because that's what they saw growing up while playing video games and living rent free in their parent's $500k house.

i refuse to hire them. i hire 18, 19, 30+

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I started out OJT and self taught. I always wonder how much better I would be if I had been around people who cared about my advancement in the profession.

I know several younger guys who had that benefit and they are awesome.

It is not babysitting it is developing your workforce. Yeah, some of them may move on after you give them a little training. But if you winnow the chaff, treat people with respect, and let them know what you want, then you will retain those people who want to be around you.

With my subcontracting buisness modle I see a lot of different types of operations. Some don't keep workers for more then 2 years, others have guys working for them for 15-20.

BTW I know of companies that work out and some that do yoga together. Tree guys are not a homogeneous genotype, except maybe for an independant streak. Look at the differance between Treeseer and Clearance, both professionals in their respective niche of the industry.

 

[lxt]

things sure have changed over the last 19 years, I can't believe some of the baby sitting that goes on these days, I never had anyone come up a tree with me nor have I ever went up with one, my foreman asked me if I thought I was ready to climb (this was 1988) and I said yes so I was shown on the ground how to tie my knots, the rope had the old snap on it, the kind without locks, I got use to the saddle and learned the basics by going up and down about 6 feet on a small tree then went up a 60 foot pine without a lanyard (just didn't use them back then) and side trimmed it with a hand saw, using that hand saw was the only precaution the foreman used with me, that was so I could get my balance and stuff right before using a small super 2 with one hand. that's just the way it was done then, the only thing I do different today is using a lanyard going up. I don't do much climbing these days, I am a fat bastard now, 290 lb, I may still do a take down every now and then just to stay sharp so to speak, I wouldn't want to be out and a climber get hurt and I can't get to him, that would really suck.

Exactly, this is similar to the way I was taught, walk out there boy what are you holding on for? then the limb below me is cut off ha ha! BUT it taught me trust not the way I wanted to be taught but it worked.

The thing now is no loyalty!! I paid my dues with the big companies learned from experienced men & slowly went on my own. Today take the customer to the side cuz someones gonna hear how much, then theyll do the math in their head(leaving out many things) MMmmm I`ll get a saw, pickup truck & whalla tree co.

some employees are there only to see how you make money not to learn the trade, my areas polluted with grass cutters/landscapers doing tree work & its terrible work.

so the question is? do ya wanna learn to be a trimmer or do ya wanna loot me for knowledge,pricing & otherwise get the lowdown on how bizness works. here in is the problem(atleast in my area)

LXT...........

 

[Treeinnovator]

some employees are there only to see how you make money not to learn the trade, my areas polluted with grass cutters/landscapers doing tree work & its terrible work....

so true.
ever see the business cards or flyers left at the doors. they say tree trimming and tree removals right alongside drywall, roof repair, tile work, etc.
you can't be an expert in everything.

 

[treevet]

When I first started climbing, way back almost 40 years ago we didn t need a training school or foreman alone to teach or learn. We did it as a group. We hung out together, fishing, drinking and just had a great time together. Sometimes, just as here on AS someone would hire on talking trash and you could read it from experience. A serious form of entertainment was quite often seeing the blowhard doing the "crab" say 30 ft over your head. There was no leg straps then and there he was w the saddle stuck under his armpits rotating in a circle w a red face. After some laughs some one would help get him down.

 

[ckliff]

to do something that challenges an innate fear. .

Great post. Well said. I've had my best luck with a couple junior college kids in the fire science program. Eventually they went on, but man could they work hard! Plus they had their own professional interest in knot-tying, climbing, chain-saw use, etc...

This summer my second oldest son is helping wether he really wants to or not , but in the fall hope to get another college kid.

 

[bound]

This thread is pretty funny from my end of things. I've been working on my own, learning tree climbing. I come from a backgound of rock climbing and logging classes at Paul Smith's up in New York. I've been searching for a climbing job for a while now. I've answered a few ads, and tried out for a few companies. I fit the description to a tee of what LXT describes when I get hired, except I know that I can do the job, I like the job, I like to work. Problem is, here in south Jersey, there's a lot of tree companies, but they all seem to be run by crazies. Every one of the companies that I've worked with don't use ANY safety gear, if they've ever heard of it in the first place. Last guy I tried out with had been in the business for twenty years or so, and I knew more about climbing than he did, and I'm not trying to say I'm some god of treework, this guy just didn't have a clue, and was flat out dangerous. It was scary. I haven't stayed on with any of these companies because I just didn't feel safe at all. One guy had nearly taken his leg off with a saw, showed me the big tear in his jeans up near his crotch, and still didn't wear chaps. Too uncomfortable. I can't find a decent company to help me learn. I'm not looking to make huge money, I'm not looking to start my own company, I just want to work for someone who can really teach me the things that I can't learn on my own, and who I feel comforable working with.
In any case, it goes both ways, at least out here.
Oh, and I hear you guys on the younger generation not wanting to work for their money. I'm only 28, and even I can't stand working with folks even five years younger than me. Some of them have a good work ethic, but a good bulk of them just seem to be slackers. Drives me nuts.

 

[sawsong]

blame it on sega, rap music, and the boomer parents. the twentysomething generation is lazy and un-hire-able these days. they want $80k a year to be a "gangsta" because that's what they saw growing up while playing video games and living rent free in their parent's $500k house.

i refuse to hire them. i hire 18, 19, 30+

you know what, thank F*** you're based nowhere near me. it's not often i get this riled at a single post, but that is ridiculous. I'm 20 years old. i've gone out of my way to get my NPTC CS30 and CS31 chainsaw and felling certificates and still cant get work back home in the country. im a damned hard working groundsman but it seems like with you, my age may be a problem to a lot of people. I've never wanted for anything other than the means to further my own skills etc. I'm a full time university student, so I cant afford the time or money to go out and buy all my climbing gear and hurt myself because nobody has taken the time to show me. i work for a fairly large company in the city where granted, i cant do enough hours to warrant a large investment in myself from the company, but that isn't the point here.

yeah im a wannabe, but im doing a music degree all week long, and spending the rest of the time reading books, reading arboristsite, and dragging brash around, in the hope that one day not too far removed from today, i'll get the chance to literally move up in the world.

so don't you dare tar everyone with the same brush. you're far from the model tree care professional yourself :angry2:

 

[Treeinnovator]

you know what, thank F*** you're based nowhere near me. it's not often i get this riled at a single post, but that is ridiculous. I'm 20 years old. i've gone out of my way to get my NPTC CS30 and CS31 chainsaw and felling certificates and still cant get work back home in the country. im a damned hard working groundsman but it seems like with you, my age may be a problem to a lot of people. I've never wanted for anything other than the means to further my own skills etc. I'm a full time university student, so I cant afford the time or money to go out and buy all my climbing gear and hurt myself because nobody has taken the time to show me. i work for a fairly large company in the city where granted, i cant do enough hours to warrant a large investment in myself from the company, but that isn't the point here.

yeah im a wannabe, but im doing a music degree all week long, and spending the rest of the time reading books, reading arboristsite, and dragging brash around, in the hope that one day not too far removed from today, i'll get the chance to literally move up in the world.

so don't you dare tar everyone with the same brush. you're far from the model tree care professional yourself :angry2:

this is exactly what i'm talking about.
you are in school studying music which is nothing but partying, playing in a band, and taking a few tests.

gee, can you try and avoid real life anymore than that??????????

getting every certificate imagineable won't help pay those bills at the end of the month.
at your age, the generations before you rolled up their sleeves and worked in the steel mills and railroads. there was no bypassing work. there was no, "i'm going to "study" music for 6 years and get a bunch of certificates while milking my parents for rent money.

typical and in denial

 

[sawsong]

this is exactly what i'm talking about.
you are in school studying music which is nothing but partying, playing in a band, and taking a few tests.

gee, can you try and avoid real life anymore than that??????????

getting every certificate imagineable won't help pay those bills at the end of the month.
at your age, the generations before you rolled up their sleeves and worked in the steel mills and railroads. there was no bypassing work. there was no, "i'm going to "study" music for 6 years and get a bunch of certificates while milking my parents for rent money.

typical and in denial

music 'production'

and not that it's any of your business but i hardly go out, because i cant afford to or rather have better use for my money. my parents are not paying my way through university, im doing it all myself.

no tests, just a tonne of coursework, as for playing in bands, yeah, a number of guys on here do too, what's your point!

6 years? try 3! and i already said that im working part time alongside it.
yes I am at uni studying something completely unrelated. this is because at the age most people enrol at university, very few are really aware of what they want to do

it becomes evident to me and probably a good proportion of this site at this point that you will argue the toss at any point. your arguments never have any basis other than sweeping generalisations or general complete and utter BS

you also seem to have a bee in your bonnet about the uni thing? could this because you dont have the neural capacity for any form of further or higher education? no? see what a generalisation is?

you certainly have no idea what it's like for me having to do uni assignments, work, teach myself what i can about this industry and get enough rest all at the same time.

so no, you are correct that im not a navvi working on the railroads or in the steel mills, you made us all proud with that one didnt you!

but in order to conclude that i am in denial and somehow hiding from the real world??? I conclude that it is you, who is in some kind of dream world, where the normal rules of decency seem not to apply

 

[masiman]

I conclude that it is you, who is in some kind of dream world, where the normal rules of decency seem not to apply

Ignore him sawsong, he is a troll. See the red dots under his name. No one likes his posts.

In his mind he wins when you respond. :notrolls2:

Your gen may or may not have some big task to fulfill in their time. Just live up to when it comes around.

 

[DDM]

here's what i do to solve the occasional "i wanna climb" guy. start him as a groundie. if he wants to climb throw him up in a tree after hours on his time unpaid.
you'll find out right there if he's afraid of heights, etc. PLUS you get some trimming done for FREE.

At the wages you boast of paying you had better hope you hire 20's something that are living with there parents rent free.

 

[lxt]

sawsong, I to am a musician, I teach part time in the winter when the tree biz gets slow, I ran my own biz while studying at berkley(summer session program) in boston (summer program is all I could afford).

I know the rigors of school and work, my hats off to ya!! rare in deed & if your mindset is what it seems to be by your posts, You will move up!!

good luck in the music, I envy ya! follow what it is that you want & you will receive.

good luck, take care & be safe!!

LXT....................

 

[computeruser]

so true.
ever see the business cards or flyers left at the doors. they say tree trimming and tree removals right alongside drywall, roof repair, tile work, etc.
you can't be an expert in everything.

I can only imagine what your flyers would say, assuming you were being honest in them.

 

[Froggy]

I think you've got to look at a climber in many ways. You don't want your super stars who think they can climb and not do anything else,you don't want people who shake like leaf every time they go up, but you need an all around climber. One who can trim as well as rig. Rigging and trimming are both equal factors in determining a well rounded climber. Just because they can get off the ground dosen't make them a climber. They've got to realize what it takes to get the job done and be able to take constructive criticisim along the way. We've all got to admit taking on an experianced climber is a challange if they're not willing to adjust to your sistem and taking on a new climber is difficult because there is a window af adjustment and learning.

 

[fastlil1]

For the record, I think it is kinda weak to just write off someone for being in their 20s. Although, I do have to admit that MANY kids my age (22) do severly lack work ethic, it isn't all of us. Hell, I switched from a Forest Managment Major to Urban Forestry Major because it was more work. I love getting home at the end of the day feeling almost too tired to take your boots off. Gives me a sence of accomplishment. Given, I'm not too worried about you not hiring 20 somethings, there are plenty of companies around here looking to hire good help.
But more so, I think the biggest thing is you get what you deserve. I'm not worried cause I know I am a hard worker, I try not to talk myself up too much (just standin up for myself in this post), and most people I meet like me. There will be a place for me somewhere, and same for all of you if you are hard workers. There really is no way to know if someone is a good worker, or good climber unless you give them a chance. Although, you can usually tell if they are worth it pretty quick.
Also new to the site, but seams like another good way to kill time now and then.

Good luck to ye'all, and stay safe.

 

[04superduty]

this is exactly what i'm talking about.
you are in school studying music which is nothing but partying, playing in a band, and taking a few tests.

gee, can you try and avoid real life anymore than that??????????

getting every certificate imagineable won't help pay those bills at the end of the month.
at your age, the generations before you rolled up their sleeves and worked in the steel mills and railroads. there was no bypassing work. there was no, "i'm going to "study" music for 6 years and get a bunch of certificates while milking my parents for rent money.

typical and in denial

lol now this is a funny. thanks for a good laugh.

 

[nytreeman]

True.
The first times I climbed I was scared, not scared to admit it now though. I was scared, had to force myself to do it. I had been running saws for years, had worked many tough jobs, but climbing 60' up a tree and coming down on the tautline I hoped I tied right took a lot. I wasn't sure, the only thing that kept me going was willpower, now I have climbed to 180', climbed many skinny, scummy trees over or above three phase power lines and its no big deal. So, its not about liking it to begin with, its getting past the fear/survival instinct that keeps you on the ground and getting up the tree. I have nothing against those that won't do it, at least they tried. Be patient LXT, most people think we are a little bit crazy to do what we do, it sure ain't for everyone.

Very true,and anyone who says they have never been scared at some time in a tree is either a liar or an idiot

 

[nytreeman]

Thats interesting. I don't like to admit to the "rush", but its there, I don't do real stupid things, but I like doing doing things that have potential for mayhem if something goes wrong. There is a real satisfaction (rush I guess) in doing those things succesfully. I guess I justify the heavily calculated risk taking many ways but really its about satisfying myself. Some of it you don't want to admit, like dominoing trees, fast cutting tops beside powerlines so they drop straight down, falling big trees beside houses or lines with no rope in them. Stuff like that, I like removals, I like being in control and making sh&t happen. It took a while to get the confidence, and I know there is always more to learn. But you have to be honest with yourself, and I guess I will have to pay the piper when I roll the dice once to often.

Clearance you know theres always the rush,nothing like climbing that tall nasty tree and and wondering what if,or falling something huge with no room to spare,or limbwalking 100+ ft in the air to get that last bad limb tied off,I love the adrenaline,I think thats what keeps me going at times, just have to channel it and keep focused.Its all a calculated risk,but experience and will is what keeps us going and alive.

Some days are better than others but at the end of the day,dead tired or not it's a great sense of accomplishment to know that you did something that very few others would or for that matter could ever do.