Weights and measures called me today

[arlen]

I haven't sold that much bundled wood certainly not enough to pay for the equipment. Monday afternoon I got a call from weights and measures. the guy told me he was going to this business on a complaint about firewood. From another seller, all of his wood was gone but he saw my bundled wood with my name and phone number on it. He said he was going to send me some information on how to properly label my bundled wood for sale I just wanted to do this on a cash basis with no receipt and put my name on the wood for a reference so customers could call me back:monkey: I hope state franchise board wont be calling me on collecting tax and getting a resale license. David

 

[Circle B MN]

"In this world nothing is certain but death and taxes."

Benjamin Franklin

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

I hope state franchise board wont be calling me on collecting tax and getting a resale license. David

Count on it.

 

[mga]

I haven't sold that much bundled wood certainly not enough to pay for the equipment. Monday afternoon I got a call from weights and measures. the guy told me he was going to this business on a complaint about firewood. From another seller, all of his wood was gone but he saw my bundled wood with my name and phone number on it. He said he was going to send me some information on how to properly label my bundled wood for sale I just wanted to do this on a cash basis with no receipt and put my name on the wood for a reference so customers could call me back:monkey: I hope state franchise board wont be calling me on collecting tax and getting a resale license. David

i would have just put an email address on the label and not a name and phone number....but, i know you wanted the business and not everyone is going to email you for wood.

but, since he now has your name and all that and will inform you how to "properly label" your wood, it appears he might be keeping an eye on you for a while.

you sure some "friend" didn't turn you in for making cash on the side?

but, c'mon....some one complaining because they felt they got shorted a couple of pieces of wood????

we certainly are a nation of whiners.

or, do like the cereal boxes do: "this product is sold by weight and not by volume"....lol....that oughta get him.

 

[Billy_Bob]

Leave your name and phone number on it, but just learn how to properly label the wood. Many laws are online now and many state departments have web sites with easy to understand information about this and that.

Each state has its own laws on selling firewood, especially by the cord. But they also have other laws on labeling *any* products for sale. I would be interested to know what is required. Might want to look at other bundles of wood for sale at big chain stores and see what information is on the label.

So far as sales tax, this is not collected if you sell wholesale.

 

[avalancher]

In our state there is only one way around the sales tax issue. The wood is free, but you charge for the labor which is non taxable. I used to deliver only, which helps substantiate your "labor only" charge, but in the recent years have gotten a little lax in watching out for the tax guy.
If you got a call from the state, I would for at least this year get a license or sell only to folks you know really well and keep your ad out of the paper. And of course, dont take any checks for payment that would help the state in nailing your hide to the wall.
I lived most of my life in Washington state, and ran into the same problem that you are facing. Sold wood on the side while going to college, and ended up paying a $750 fine for selling without a license. The gave me 30 days to pay the fine, or risk some time in the county clink.
Needless to say, I was doing some frantic scrambling to come up with the cash. Yep, you guessed it, sold a bunch of wood real cheap to pay my fine, and didnt lift a stick of wood for years after that.

 

[arlen]

I didn't want to respond to the weights and measures guy yesterday. But, I didn't want to piss him off. I am sure he could find out who I was by my cell phone number and first name.

I have a question for the members who sell wood.

How do you do it ?

How do you stay out of trouble ?

I would be interested in the responses, and if any members have had any problems or success thanks Davidopcorn: opcorn:

 

[avalancher]

There really is no way to stay out of trouble if someone wants to make some bones on you. But, you can minimize your exposure. If you get a license, then you stay out of trouble for the most part, but you will soon find out that a lot of your efforts will go into paying taxes. You might even find out that selling wood this way doesnt pay.
However, you can avoid a lot of exposure to the state and feds by only accepting cash for payments, or if you take a check cash it at the customers bank, not your own. What ever you do, dont deposit in your account.
Pay for all expenses out of your cash stash, dont use your credit cards for gas purchases, parts, and repairs.
Make a receipt for every sale, it will help you to avoid customers that might want out of pure meaness to turn you in. The receipt will give the allusion that you are officially in business. Get a rubber stamp made with a name for your business, but the name should not include your own name, such as MIKE'S FIREWOOD. If you really want to stay off the radar, get a prepaid cell phone, and pay for the refills with cash at the curb store.
Most folks will quickly round file the receipt or if you are lucky stick to their fridge. It will however settle their desire to do a dirty deed if they think that you are not paying your taxes. Some folks have nothing better to do than make phone calls.
Do everything that you can to make your customers happy within reason, it will minimize the grumpy folks from making phone calls. I try and always give a little bit more wood than what they actually paid for. A few sticks wont hurt me, and it makes them happy and less likely to make phone calls.
The biggest thing to remember is, stay off the radar if you are selling for cash without a license. Once you have come to the attention of the state or feds, its only a matter of time before they show up at your door. An audit of your banking practises takes only minutes for the state and feds. I have found that in most cases, most of the state governments are not really that interested in nailing little guys like you and me.
I ran a small General Contracting firm some time ago, and did really well for myself until I forgot to claim the income from one contractor. I got audited every year for three years after that by the IRS, and it was amazing the extent they went to too nail my hide to the wall. My biggest mistake was getting lippy with the first auditor when he found a discrepency in my books for the amount of $61. I regret not keeping my tongue in my mouth after that for years to come.

 

[arlen]

Avalancher thanks for the reply and the advice. David

 

[avalancher]

I wouldnt go so far as to call it advise, just my opinion. I could be wrong in all of it, but so far it has kept me out of trouble for a little over 6 years now

 

[KsWoodsMan]

Sounds like his plans for prosecuting an unscrupulous supplier were foiled. I wonder if the other guy was shorting his customers.

Probably best to be polite and thank him for bringing an oversight to your attention. be sure to tell him you appreciate the information, when you have the opportunity to talk to him

Odd though that the business was out of the other suppliers wood bundles.

 

[Butch(OH)]

A few years ago weights and measures here in Ohio made a huge deal out of stopping "unscrupulous firewood dealers" from shafting the public by making illegal the sale of firewood by any measurement other than cords or fractions of. They then fined and put out of business a few evil enemy's of the state who were selling by the pick up load. Now that having a fire is cute amoung the yuppies dealers sell thousands of cords of firewood in little bags at about any convenience store you go into yet I have never seen one mention of cord on the packaging?? What does this have to do with your dilemma? Avalancher has it about right, if who ever complained is persistant or the agent is zelous in his work your in for a tough life until you get all the permits, licenses etc. Otherwise you can go on with it and will likely never hear from them again if things work there like they do here.

 

[avalancher]

I was surprised when I checked this thread that there werent more posts on this subject. I have wondered before how many of you guys actually get all the permits that you need to stay within the confines of the law, and actually pony up all the tax dollars that we are supposed to hand over to Uncle Sam.
How about it guys, how many are operating with a permit/license?

 

[yotehowler]

I did check into going "legit" here in California. What a nightmare! I don't think a small operator could make it. If you were retailing wood you'd have to have a full-time bookkeeper just to keep track of sales tax. Not only do we have a State sales tax but most munincipalities (and some counties I believe) have a sales tax as well. Sales tax also has to be charged for delivery here. There's a lot more B.S. as well.

I feel for you Arlen, hope it works out. Did you have the size stated on your bundle labels?

 

[arlen]

I did check into going "legit" here in California. What a nightmare! I don't think a small operator could make it. If you were retailing wood you'd have to have a full-time bookkeeper just to keep track of sales tax. Not only do we have a State sales tax but most munincipalities (and some counties I believe) have a sales tax as well. Sales tax also has to be charged for delivery here. There's a lot more B.S. as well.

I feel for you Arlen, hope it works out. Did you have the size stated on your bundle labels?

Yes i did have the size of the bundle stated between 3/4 and 1 cubic foot.

The weights and measures guy said I need to be specific like 3/4 of a cubic foot and also list the metric size I believe fraction of a cubic meter ? It need to have my name or a business name on it and an e-mail address or a phone number. I guess a good example would be to look at that crap soft wood firewood that is sold at supermarkets and see what they have on their label. David

 

[Butch(OH)]

Yes i did have the size of the bundle stated between 3/4 and 1 cubic foot.

The weights and measures guy said I need to be specific like 3/4 of a cubic foot and also list the metric size I believe fraction of a cubic meter ? It need to have my name or a business name on it and an e-mail address or a phone number. I guess a good example would be to look at that crap soft wood firewood that is sold at supermarkets and see what they have on their label. David

Yup, The W&M guy could care less whats in the package, you could put paper in it and call it hardwood as long as it has a proper label he is OK Lets have a hu-rah for more regulation!

 

[strongback]

Is it ever good news when the government bureacrats call? Not only is it a PITA when they call, it almost always costs me money. Even then it wouldn't be soooo bad if they cared enough to do the job correctly. I have NEVER. EVER. EEEEVER! Called a government office 3 times and got the same answer more than twice. More often it's three different answers. That's why we have the 3 call rule around here. Anytime your dealing with a government agency (city/state/federal) it pays to call, ask you question, recieve the BS answer, hang-up, repeat 2 more times, take an average of the BS. Bureacrats are lazy, expensive, useless and stupid. I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

 

[Jkebxjunke]

Yes i did have the size of the bundle stated between 3/4 and 1 cubic foot.

The weights and measures guy said I need to be specific like 3/4 of a cubic foot and also list the metric size I believe fraction of a cubic meter ? It need to have my name or a business name on it and an e-mail address or a phone number. I guess a good example would be to look at that crap soft wood firewood that is sold at supermarkets and see what they have on their label. David

surprised he didn't want it also in Spanish...

 

[ropensaddle]

Wow, another lets take a swing at the most underpaid overworked crowd
in our industry. I would bet it is the big operators with the processors
complaining. I don't sell it hardly ever, don't advertise to sell it and I
may not ever sell a stick, because; it does not pay. They say crime
don't pay but every time I hear that, I think of the White House
and go, yeah right This is proof we have paid in too many
taxes, they have too many dept's set up today. The gimmie people,
gimmie this or we will take that, mean while we let illegals steal
your work and not pay a dime and give them free health care.
They need a friggin wake up call they are supposed to be
working for us

 

[avalancher]

Wow, another lets take a swing at the most underpaid overworked crowd
in our industry. I would bet it is the big operators with the processors
complaining. I don't sell it hardly ever, don't advertise to sell it and I
may not ever sell a stick, because; it does not pay. They say crime
don't pay but every time I hear that, I think of the White House
and go, yeah right This is proof we have paid in too many
taxes, they have too many dept's set up today. The gimmie people,
gimmie this or we will take that, mean while we let illegals steal
your work and not pay a dime and give them free health care.
They need a friggin wake up call they are supposed to be
working for us

I couldnt have said it any better myself. I have been asked a number of times if i feel guilty about not paying income tax on the money that I earn, once by a neighbor who makes his living on a fraudlent back disability.
I figure that I am just evening things up a bit. The govenment takes such a huge wack out of my paycheck, then hands the money over to people who dont want to work. They pay healthcare for illegal immigrants. It just makes me sick to see our tax dollars at work.
My wife teaches middle school, and almost half of her students now are Hispanic. Since they dont speak a word of english,my wife is having to learn Spanish, all the textbooks are printed in both English and Spanish, as well as any bulletins and lunch menus.
I makes me sick to walk around that school, there are signs all over the place in Spanish that I cant even begin to understand.
Yep, our tax dollars at work. They arent going to get a dime of the money that I earn working in the woods doing some of the toughest work there is.