It would probably be more reliable... if thats practical or not...well...
Welding bars together to make them longer
- Thread starter knezzer97
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This would be interesting to try. I might add that you will want to retain some sort of "belly" on the bar to keep the chain tight. As was stated earlier fit up and heat control are essential. Be careful not to fill or distort the rails.
calamari
ArboristSite Operative
I think that northmanlogging mentioned that bar sag would be an issue when starting the cut with a bar that long. I think he said that a stand is used to level the bar at first and then taken away. Consider that and an auxiliary oiler to increase the saw's supply.
Probably harder to get them lined back up that way and more welding which means more warping.
i took a 28, cut it in half, added 17" from middle of 36, both oregon power match, so "bellys" lined up almost perfect
lil grind n file...
rails welded w/ copper in the groove
ended up w/44" useable length
buckin w/394
lil grind n file...
rails welded w/ copper in the groove
ended up w/44" useable length
buckin w/394
camel2019
ArboristSite Guru
Little short of what you want but
https://www.toolstorm.ca/products/s6263185w
https://www.toolstorm.ca/products/s6263185w
Was this bar ever built?
Wondering if it was anealled before the guide rails were welded up?
It can be done. Getting the metal tension right and avoiding cracks will be the big issues milling long term if you got the rails hard enough to hold up. Three very large bow bars here need some repairs like stellite or hard faced rod added to a section in one to replace the missing material. They never flipped the bar. The other is just worn out but in good shape and only needs facing. The tail was easy to redo. None of these bars have stellite on the tail like a race bar does so they don't wear out the chain chassis in short order.
Where does the chain have the most drag?... no need answer.
Stellite is added to most of the Cannon race bars but in particular places where it will not flex much. Using it on a very long springy bar is a huge mistake imho. Think what your doing with a standard bar that your bow never does. I actually use my bow bars and they are NOT wall hangars. Welding on a chunk of steel or heat treating the guide rail is what you to do in that area. Just remember welding will cause many stress riser because it's not heat treated after welding near the guide rail. Not welding that area is better if you can add on enough hardened steel to not ruin the edge bit. Adding tension and hardness to the steel by hammering it might work. Heat treatment with a quick quench done correctly could make or break it just like a custom knife blade. They are the qualities your looking for. Hardened edge with a flexible yet rigid backbone while maintaining a very hard outer edge only.
Wondering if it was anealled before the guide rails were welded up?
It can be done. Getting the metal tension right and avoiding cracks will be the big issues milling long term if you got the rails hard enough to hold up. Three very large bow bars here need some repairs like stellite or hard faced rod added to a section in one to replace the missing material. They never flipped the bar. The other is just worn out but in good shape and only needs facing. The tail was easy to redo. None of these bars have stellite on the tail like a race bar does so they don't wear out the chain chassis in short order.
Where does the chain have the most drag?... no need answer.
Stellite is added to most of the Cannon race bars but in particular places where it will not flex much. Using it on a very long springy bar is a huge mistake imho. Think what your doing with a standard bar that your bow never does. I actually use my bow bars and they are NOT wall hangars. Welding on a chunk of steel or heat treating the guide rail is what you to do in that area. Just remember welding will cause many stress riser because it's not heat treated after welding near the guide rail. Not welding that area is better if you can add on enough hardened steel to not ruin the edge bit. Adding tension and hardness to the steel by hammering it might work. Heat treatment with a quick quench done correctly could make or break it just like a custom knife blade. They are the qualities your looking for. Hardened edge with a flexible yet rigid backbone while maintaining a very hard outer edge only.
Ingenuity at it's finest. Great job
Thought about that idear with claw foot bath tubs,, too many variables so I found something else to concentrate on (?CAD?) I like your idea but only have a few buggered (Bent) 24" bars at present.. Thanks for posting that info.
Sure you can. Unless the bars have no curvature, it will be a really lumpy profile, though.
Use MG 600 rod. If there is a TIG equivalent to that alloy, I don't know what it would be. This rod is magic, and can join almost any two ferrous metals. Furthermore, it flows like a dream, leaving no bubbles. I butt welded the single leaf spring on my chipper once; it was still unbroken 2 years later when I sold it. Of course, it's hard to find and costs about $5.00 per stick.
Pre-heat to 400°, then weld away. You will get a single piece of metal that is uncanny how strong the weld is. 180,000 psi is the strength rating of the rod.
I have no idea how you think you are going to machine that groove into usable condition, though. I think that by the time you buy two 36" bars, weld them together, then machine a whole new rail on both sides of your large bar, you would be money and time ahead to just buy a bar that size.
So basically: is you nuts?
(ME THINKS)
Airco 308-16 or eutectic 680 as stick rod fits into alternative rods to your mg 600 I
It has to do with mass production. Not many long bars get sold, so they are a lot more expensive "per inch".
Here is a source for 72" bar Husky or Stilh $276. These are 3/8/.063 but the nose can be changed to 404/.063 husky stock#hv7263210w Large mount Stilh #s7263210w they do not list the mount # but an 084 takes a 3002 mount ( iirc) easy enough to open up a 3003 to the 3002
Ahlborn Equipment, Inc web is ahlbornequipment.com ph is 18004727600 there are in WI USA
Have fun Be safe
Ahlborn Equipment, Inc web is ahlbornequipment.com ph is 18004727600 there are in WI USA
Have fun Be safe
j-jock
ArboristSite Operative
I welded two 36 inch Oregon/Husky bars together to make an Alaska mill bar that would support 2 powerheads. I used ER70 wire, and hammered it, to de stress it, before welding the 2nd side, and it worked like a charm. The only reason I sold the bar, was because I got an offer I couldn't refuse. I wouldn't hesitate to do it again.
I know from welding 4130 steel in aircraft fuselages, that it is approved to use mild steel rod. The reasoning is, that there is so little weld metal involved in the joining, that if anything, the joint will be stronger and less likely to crack after the welding process.
It is important to cool the bar slowly down to a temperature of around 600 degrees, and then dunk the bar to temper it.
Assuming that you have used good bars to join, the weld will be as tough as nails and will wear well. I used my bar on large maple, fir, and cedar, and when I sold it, it was still like new.
I know from welding 4130 steel in aircraft fuselages, that it is approved to use mild steel rod. The reasoning is, that there is so little weld metal involved in the joining, that if anything, the joint will be stronger and less likely to crack after the welding process.
It is important to cool the bar slowly down to a temperature of around 600 degrees, and then dunk the bar to temper it.
Assuming that you have used good bars to join, the weld will be as tough as nails and will wear well. I used my bar on large maple, fir, and cedar, and when I sold it, it was still like new.
Welding bars together isn't a new concept. Lumberjacks have been doing that since before there were chainsaws.
I wonder how many days it took for each cut?
I wonder how many days it took for each cut?
Very easy to open this bar up in the slot. The issues comes up when you don't have enough tail height to feed the oil hole location. Cannon normally has a fast rate of rise on the tail of longer bars intended for larger saws like the 14mm 3002. Some will move the slot off center so your then limited to the use of one rail only and the chain tends to drag on the lower case area as the chain stretches and the bar moves ahead to take up your slack. At some point the loop tends to start chewing on your case area. Key point to check before considering a short tail height on a larger taller mount system. A simple paper template or a test fit with no mount studs installed tends to shed some light on this one key issue. It can also pinch the chain between the bar plates, if you have them, as things move forward and that won't be good.
I did an overlay of the 41" 3002 ES WN and the 36" 3002 ES WN bars and you don't gain as much as one might think when you keep the elliptical shape of the rail guide areas from going flat or worse yet inverted slopes. That seems like a great spot to unload the cutters if done incorrectly. The only fix if your not splitting the bar on center to gain height is to have a ditch in your trailing area on the back side. That should pack chip into your groove and be an oil robbing point that causes the drivers and chain to lose all it's oil. In a worst case it might jam chip in the sprocket nose.
Nice explanation for a detailed analysis.
Electric welders weren't a thing when that pic was taken. so not only was it welded, it was forge welded, and hand saws are actually tempered and heat treated unlike chain saw bars, so the smith that pulled that off knew his work.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut accidentally ;-)
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