You are totally gettin' good, Dude!
Jeff
Jeff
Well arborist game just for fun
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Sorry Rope. The correct answer is MULCH makes plants thirstier!
Plants above mulch transpire (and need) more water than either turf or bare dirt. Here is why:
Mulch insulates the ground, preserves moisture, right? Along the way, it reflects heat back up to the plants above it, making them hotter than other ground covers. The retention of moisture also means that there is no evaporative cooling beneath the plants, so...mulch makes the area above it less hospitable. Of course, this effect does not go much further than 6' up, so mature trees are not heavily influenced like smaller shrubs and transplants. Apparently, giving the plants a cooler root zone with more moisture available does NOT translate to reduced water consumption for the plant.
Lawn absorbs sunlight and does not reflect the heat back up to the plants above it. It's transpiration of water provides additional evaporative cooling beneath the taller plants. This increased evaporation also provides increased humidity beneath the plants, so their transpiration rate is reduced from either mulch or bare ground. Plants above lawn areas have the LOWEST water requirements.
Bare ground, while it does not provide the same evaporative cooling that lawn does, still absorbs more heat from the sun than does mulch, and it clearly provides more evaporative cooling than mulch, so it's reflected heat up to the plant above is actually lower than mulch.
This seems counter-intuitive, but it is very well documented, and I found this from doing a search inspired by Treeseer.
Pretty bizarre, Eh? I expect that a lot of readers will say that I am nuts, so here is the documentation: http://auf.isa-arbor.com/request.asp?JournalID=1&ArticleID=2814&Type=2
Somebody owes me a good question!!!
Plants above mulch transpire (and need) more water than either turf or bare dirt. Here is why:
Mulch insulates the ground, preserves moisture, right? Along the way, it reflects heat back up to the plants above it, making them hotter than other ground covers. The retention of moisture also means that there is no evaporative cooling beneath the plants, so...mulch makes the area above it less hospitable. Of course, this effect does not go much further than 6' up, so mature trees are not heavily influenced like smaller shrubs and transplants. Apparently, giving the plants a cooler root zone with more moisture available does NOT translate to reduced water consumption for the plant.
Lawn absorbs sunlight and does not reflect the heat back up to the plants above it. It's transpiration of water provides additional evaporative cooling beneath the taller plants. This increased evaporation also provides increased humidity beneath the plants, so their transpiration rate is reduced from either mulch or bare ground. Plants above lawn areas have the LOWEST water requirements.
Bare ground, while it does not provide the same evaporative cooling that lawn does, still absorbs more heat from the sun than does mulch, and it clearly provides more evaporative cooling than mulch, so it's reflected heat up to the plant above is actually lower than mulch.
This seems counter-intuitive, but it is very well documented, and I found this from doing a search inspired by Treeseer.
Pretty bizarre, Eh? I expect that a lot of readers will say that I am nuts, so here is the documentation: http://auf.isa-arbor.com/request.asp?JournalID=1&ArticleID=2814&Type=2
Somebody owes me a good question!!!
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That is why I was so careful in phrasing my question. And no, the plants were not placed ON the surfaces, they were planted in holes dug into the soil, and the mulch layer was 6" deep. Yes, I knew they were containerized; I suspect that this was done to facilitate water measurements.
Still, this study does demonstrate that lawn is not the villain to trees that is commonly thought, and there is a downside to mulch that is not generally considered by us "experts".
The study does not evaluate total water consumption nor availability in the three surfaces, so it cannot provide a meaningful conclusion about whether plants in mulched areas have more water available to compensate for their increased needs.
That, of course, would be a really big experiment.
Still, this study does demonstrate that lawn is not the villain to trees that is commonly thought, and there is a downside to mulch that is not generally considered by us "experts".
The study does not evaluate total water consumption nor availability in the three surfaces, so it cannot provide a meaningful conclusion about whether plants in mulched areas have more water available to compensate for their increased needs.
That, of course, would be a really big experiment.
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I am sorry you won't just believe me. You seem to dislike the reported results.
You should read more carefully. Here is a direct "copy & paste" quotation from the article:
"Throughout the growing season, all shrubs remained
in their containers. To moderate root-zone
temperature, holes were dug in each surface treatment
area such that the top of each container
would be slightly below grade."
Next question please ! TreeCo: give us a good one. We need more participation to make this thread work.
You should read more carefully. Here is a direct "copy & paste" quotation from the article:
"Throughout the growing season, all shrubs remained
in their containers. To moderate root-zone
temperature, holes were dug in each surface treatment
area such that the top of each container
would be slightly below grade."
Next question please ! TreeCo: give us a good one. We need more participation to make this thread work.
Ed Roland
Addicted to ArboristSite
Whoa, slow down. before moving on to a new one, explain this if grass plants play so nice with trees.
http://joa.isa-arbor.com/request.asp?JournalID=1&ArticleID=2816&Type=2
or this one...
http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~jrudgers/Reprints/rudgersOrr_JEcol09.pdf
or this one...
http://www.botanyshop.com/Tree_Turf1.pdf
"clearing turfgrass away from the root zone of newly planted trees can
dramatically increase growth of those trees."
What about the crazy fertilization regime recommended by Scott's and Lesco Hort Supply? Lesco recommends 5 applications of fertilizer annually to centipede. This will cause harmful effects to large woody perennials. Can you apply a treatment to the lawn and not effect the tree if their roots share the same space within the soil?
I will choose the correct mulch to reside under a tree over grass plants - EVERY time. All the way to the dripline.
I'm glad we cleared that up.
I figure that you still owe me a question, and I'll bet you come up with a real good one, too. Something obscure or not easily found in a book would be nice.
I figure that you still owe me a question, and I'll bet you come up with a real good one, too. Something obscure or not easily found in a book would be nice.
I would love to open that mulch vs lawn topic again, but not at the expense of a good idea. I like Rope's idea of a question and answer thread where everybody gets to post a question as well as an answer.
Let's beat the turf vs mulch topic in another thread.
ropensaddle
Feel Lucky
Tricky lol but as far as cooling which is more important roots or leaves trunk and twigs. I fell because of thirsty which means lack of available water. Still very interesting indeed.
treemandan
Tree Freak
That is interesting. I don't really get into it all but I bring in soil/compost when I plant new trees and it seems to work. I recently have been getting the guy at the supply yard to mix mushroom soil,unscreened fill and topsoil for me if I run out of the stuff I have at my place which is just debris from tree jobs that have turned to dirt. Whatever I plant in either grows like crazy.
ropensaddle
Feel Lucky
Many plants are more adaptable so yes I believe that. My biggest problem at the farm is I have not done a good soil test. I got one of those kit thingys but they don't work so good. I have been telling my self that I will take samples to the extension service but have not yet. I have more shale,quartz and clay than anything!
OKAY! No more trick questions, (or), oh well.
Jeff
Jeff
ropensaddle
Feel Lucky
OKAY! No more trick questions, (or), oh well.
Jeff
Well ask one Jeff !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
For you Rope, I will. I like the path that is obviously a path to you being a challenger that makes us think.
Jeff
Gonna get a bud and respond under the pressure of 'The Rope'.
Jeff
ropensaddle
Feel Lucky
For you Rope, I will. I like the path that is obviously a path to you being a challenger that makes us think.
Jeff
Gonna get a bud and respond under the pressure of 'The Rope'.
Jeff
Lol I just like the input gets my lenticels breathing lmao
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Lol I just like the input gets my linticels breathing lmao
I just gotta find my lighter! Then the question, oh, here it is! Yeah. In 2or 3 minutes! Get ready!
Jeff
ropensaddle
Feel Lucky
Lol opcorn:
opcorn:
So, a property that has the Pacific winds with the salty air has about 400 Queen Palms, ( Arecastrum romanzoffianum), and beautiful views. On the walk-thru, 4 of the palms heads were almost sideways and looking weird. That was 2 years ago and I will finally be removing them because I was right.
A little info, pruned every year, maintenance done by Landscapers.
Jeff
A little info, pruned every year, maintenance done by Landscapers.
Jeff
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