What a waste at an auction

[ChoppyChoppy]

Drove 5hrs each way to Tok on Saturday to go to an auction for a firewood/sawmill outfit.

They had a Twister wood wrapper I was interested in, log truck, etc.

The crowd wasn't too big and wasn't spending very much. I figured the bundler might see $500-600. Example an early 90s low hrs 200 Hitachi went for 12k.

Well I went with a friend who ran into someone he knew...

The first half of the auction was going pretty cheap. Then one of the family members started shill bidding and it got so bad that even the auctioneer did some shill bidding too!

I really wanted to speak up but I got the feeling it would have got really ugly. The auctioneer was terrible at his job for sure.

The bundler ended up going for $1300, about what I can buy one for brand new. It was a "battle" between the shill bidder and that "friend" of a friend. He came over after and offered to sell it, cause he had no use for it, just wanted to bid on something I wanted. I about told him where he could should it.

 

[Sandhill Crane]

Long drive for sure.
No doubt disappointing.
Last time I went to an auction I was a kid.
Someone bid on some traps. There were two dozens of them, different sizes. Some clown wasn't listening and bit $6.00 or something, and the hammer dropped, "Sold, $6.00 each... to number ---." We heard this guy go "Ugh..." He wanted the auctioneer to rebid. Auctioneer asked if anyone else misunderstood the "per piece" bid. Case closed.

We reserved a camp site for several days in July.
Never been there specifically, but to the area. Very beautiful.
Camp site for trailer was a city RV park, on a lake, next to a baseball field where they played till 1:30 am Thursday night, flood lights and loud speakers with an announcer. We were also 300' from a two lane county truck route, and less than a quarter mile from a stop light. After awhile the jake brakes, and gearing up just blend in the background. Not at all what we expected. Met lots of good people and still had a great time exploring though.

The last three day trip in August was the complete opposite. Near a stream, a woman lent us two kayaks and gear so we went kayaking with two others, in and out of the rain, quiet, peaceful, wildlife, and ended up on a sandy Lake Michigan beach. Later, we stumbled across an alpaca farm. Beautiful animals. There were guard dogs to keep coyotes away. Margaret spins wool and fleeces, so she was a happy girl. I was happy too because I found a beautiful sweater in their small shop, to put away for her for Christmas. (What do you get a woman for a gift?) Well, Christmas came early... Aug. 4

Next trip she is off on her own, with a girl friend.

 

[Sandhill Crane]

Then one of the family members started shill bidding

Shill bidding. Had to look it up, but I learned a new term.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

Shill bidding. Had to look it up, but I learned a new term.

Yeah it's where someone that isn't buying bids in order to raise the price. Usually a friend or family member of the owner.

It's not illegal, but not honest at all. Doing this at a professional auction (such as Ritchie Bros) will result in you being black listed.

 

[Wood Doctor]

A few years back I drove 500 miles north to an auction and brought a ton of cash, hoping that I would find something to buy and take home. Not a dang bargain was there. The local folks paid through the nose for items that I could have bought cheaper in my home town.

Some of these auctions are a lot of hype.

 

[cantoo]

Valley, I go to tons of auctions and know most of the regulars. I have about a dozen auctioneers that I follow around. Each one has their methods and after years you get to know it and it's easier to tell when they are pulling bids or if one of their guys are bidding. I go to a lot of car auctions too and lots of vehicles are passed by because not enough is bid. Lots of the guys run their own vehicles up but you can usually tell by their body language if they own it or not.
And I'm one of those guys who run stuff up even if they don't want it, I hate to see stuff sell cheap and I'm always selling stuff anyway so putting a few bids on cheap stuff doesn't bother me much. I very seldom go to a sale for a single item unless it's something I'm looking for to keep myself. I try to make each sale worth my time by buying something that I can resell for enough money to pay for my time. Last sale I went to looking at a stump grinder, myself and one other guy bidding on it and it ended up going higher than I wanted so I let it go. I bought 2 hay forks for tractors and have already sold one that paid for my day.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

I normally go to professional auctions, you'll be instantly blacklisted for shill bidding. What it sells is what it is. Generally auctions aren't the place to get top dollar for your stuff.

 

[muddstopper]

I was in Kissimee at a yoder and fry auction a few years ago. I was looking for a 40hp size tractor. boy that size tractor sure was in big demand that year and bidding was way more than I was willing to pay. On down the line was a bunch of MF 7000series size tractors. All looked nearly new with less than 100hrs. I watched the first few sell and they where selling dirt cheap. Not bidding, I noticed a fellow bidding one every one of them, but not buying or always dropping out when it looked like he would be the winning bidder. Well, after watching a few of the tractors sell, I decided I could buy one and stop at a dealer somewhere and trade it in for a tractor of the size I wanted. I waited and watched a few more sell, all in about the same price range so finally I decided to start bidding. Well as I suspected, that same guy jumped in the bidding when everybody else dropped out to run the bid up. It was me and him and I thought to myself, ole boy, your fixing to get a dose of your own medicine. As soon as he bid, I would throw up my hand, he would bid again and I would throw up my hand, this went on until this tractor was a couple thousand higher than what the others had brought. I guess he thought I was really eager to buy as I was bidding fast and furious, and then I stopped and walked off. Well the auctioneer tried to get me to bid one more time, nope, I bid what I bid and I was outbid, let him have it. Well, then the guy came over to me and said if I would bid one more time he wouldnt bid anymore. Nope, if you didnt want it, you shouldnt have been bidding. Turns out, he owned the tractor to begin with, and he still owned it when I left. A buddy that was with me told me later that the tractor had been placed back in the auction and sold for less than what the others had been bringing. The shill got what he deserved, he lost money and had to pay a buyers premium to boot.

 

[cantoo]

Richie Bros is about one of the only auctions here who don't allow owners or reps to bid on their items and for the most part they strictly enforce it. Every other auction here is buyer beware. I don't have a problem with it as I realize they can't give stuff away but it does make you mad if you spend a bunch of time and they either bid it back in or worse yet just skip over the item. I usually end up with a load anyway. My wife never knows what I'm going to come driving in the laneway with and it gives the neighbours something to talk about.

 

[rarefish383]

I just spent about an hour searching to see if shill bidding is legal. It defiantly is illegal on the internet. It's considered wire fraud. I always thought it was illegal in MD because if the auctioneers here catch a shill bidder they will throw them off the property. If an item doesn't get a bid, they combine the item with another till they get a bid, as long as it's in the same lot. That being said, I know it goes on. One time I was standing next to two guys talking and one stopped short and said, "gotta go, gotta bid on that tractor for my friend, don't want it to go too cheap". If the auctioneers catch you bidding on your own stuff, they might warn you once, then they will pull all of your stuff out of the sale. The sales I go to the auctioneers are so adamant about it, I just took it for granted it was illegal. I might call the states attorney tomorrow and ask, Joe.

 

[cantoo]

rarefish383, the way it works here is that most auctioneers state their rules at the start of the sale. For instance at an Estate sale they might say that the family will be bidding on items for themselves, or that guys helping on the wagons are neighbours just helping on and they will be bidding on things for themselves. They will also say if there is any items that have a reserve price on them of maybe an advanced bid etc. No one is going to admit that they are bidding just to advance the bid, well no one other than me. Lots of time I just start bids to speed things up, sometimes I end up with a deal too though, risk you take. Most sales here now have a Buyers premium too and if you bid on behalf of the owner and you end up with the last bid you can be pretty sure that the auction company is gonna want their premium, they don't care about your deal with the owner.

 

[svk]

Around here auctions bring by the best dollar to the seller by far compared to other methods of sale. Something about getting a bunch of men together and their need to win. I've seen stuff go for triple what it's worth. My friends had one at their uncle's house and they sold a little front wheel drive Buick that was about 20 years old for 4600 bucks! You'd have trouble selling that for 1500 bucks on any other day of the week. Or like when they put a bunch of junk with one antique and you need to take the whole pile if you buy.

I've gotten some good deals though too. Physically large items go for cheap, especially towards the end of the day when the main bidders have gotten what they wanted and have left.

My pole barn is full of crap that I need to go through before my wife decides to turn that place into an auction.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

It's hit and miss on what an auction will bring. I've seen JUNK, like an old Sears yard tractor with no engine, 4 flat tires and a broken deck go for $500 and a near new CAT motor grader (like 275 hrs new) go for 70k (about 400 new).

The bundler actually went for $1300, so basically new price. It was in ok shape, had lots of hrs on it though and had some farmer fabbing done. I felt 700-800 was fair.
If I end up getting the grocery store contract I'll just buy another one like I have. The contract is for about 60k bundles a year between 3 vendors.

Not 100% I want to take it on, will be a HUGE workload. I sold about 1500 bundles this year (15 cords worth of wood). It's basically my pocket $$ while logs and bulk firewood is my bread and butter.

 

[rarefish383]

Cantoo, friends, neighbors and relatives that are bidding on items for themselves would all be legal bidders. I've been at sales that make those announcements also. I like the policy, it lets you know they are not shill bidders. A shill bidder is not bidding to buy, just drive the price up. I took a bunch of stuff to an auction house yesterday and asked if it is the auctioneers policy or law. She said that in the state of MD it is law. If they let a shill bidder operate at one of their sales they can loose their license and get giant fines. She also said the the state of MD does actively pursue and prosecute shill bidders. Most shill bidders are not working for the auction house but for the seller, on the quiet. The big farm/equipment sale I go to twice a year won't except reserves on old junky stuff. But, they sell stuff for local dealerships that is warrantied, and they do take reserves on stuff like that. They just say, "we have a $5000 reserve on this mower, anybody want to start there?". If they get a bid they start, if not, they say "No sale" and move on. They still get their minimum fee, so they don't care. I was also at a sale in Virginia where a farmer passed away less than a year after he bought a new 106 HP, turbo diesel, A/C, heat radio, duel rear wheels, full cab tractor. This was in the early 80's. The auctioneer had the bill of sale where the farmer paid $65,000 for the tractor and all of the warranty papers. He started asking for $50,000 and got down to $10, with no opener. You could tell this was a tight community and every body knew everybody. A guy held his hand up and bid $5,000. The auctioneer went off on him. Called him a SOB and said, "by law I have to accept your bid, but by law, I don't have to sell it to you if I don't get a second bid, and I'm not gonna let you have that tractor and rob your friends wife." It did sell for $7500, but not to the SOB. So, there are laws, they maybe state by state. But around here an auction house that let shill bidding take place would go out of business fast.

The example of bidding on behalf of the owner, just to drive the price up, is the definition of a shill bid, and in MD is illegal.

When I asked the lady at the auction house yesterday, she actually pointed at a notice posted above the window where you get your bidding number. She was busy so I didn't stand there and read it. When I go back I'll snap a pic of it. If it's a quote of the law, or just a notice of their policy, when I figure out how to post pics I'll post it up, Joe.

 

[rarefish383]

Canttoo, what is that black thing on your trailer? I was looking for rail wheels, all I can see is the spindles, Joe.

 

[rarefish383]

I might have figured it out! Is it an Amish station wagon? Joe.

 

[muddstopper]

Just have to know what something is worth before bidding at an auction. Some folks just cant control themselfs. That auctioneer babble is designed to confuse folks and keep the excitement level up too. I like to cruise the auction site before bidding starts. I can look everything over and decide what I am willing to pay and set my maximum bid price before I start bidding. I also use strategies to run bidders out. I'll slow bid if there is more than one other person bidding. I feel this puts a seed a of doubt in the other bidders mind that the item might not be worth what they think it is. Of course this can backfire if the other bidder thinks I am about to drop out. If its just me and one other bidder, I bid fast and furious up to my maximum bid amount. Sometimes this makes the other bidder mad because I out bid them so fast and they will just give up. If the other bidder stays with me, I might jump the bid by a hundred or two, to make them think twice about bidding again. As long as I am under my maximum bid. I dont know if any strategies really work, but I like watching how other folks react under pressure. I have seen folks stomp off grumbleing and some so mad you think you might have to fight your way out. My goal is to not pay more than I have to and not to go over my predetermined maximum numbers I came up with before the bidding started. And I have seen bidding start higher then what I considered maximum value, if so, I just set back and see what the item brings.

Dangest thing I ever saw was two brothers bidding against each other. I went to the auction with them so I knew what they where looking to buy. there was only one of that items in the auction and they needed it pretty bad. Well the bidding started and pretty soon it was down to just two bidders and it turns out the brothers where bidding against each other. They had run the price up a few hundered dollars before they figured out what was going on. I think the auctioneer had already figured it out first. Everybody got a good laugh when the auctioneer announced to one brother, Dick, (I guess I have to say Richard instead) you aint going to let David out bid you are you. The look on the brothers face was priceless.

 

[rarefish383]

I was at a sale and a husband and wife started bidding against each other. It's a big sale with 4 auctioneers going at the same time, so you have to stay on your toes. After a couple bids the auctioneer noticed they were both holding up the same number. He laughed and said to the man, "isn't that your wife over there". I think most auctions are pretty honest when it comes to bids. It's in their best interest to be. Now, when it comes to descriptions, that's another story. The oldest piece of junk looks "brand new" and will "last another 20 years"

 

[LoveStihlQuality]

I was in Kissimee at a yoder and fry auction a few years ago. I was looking for a 40hp size tractor. boy that size tractor sure was in big demand that year and bidding was way more than I was willing to pay. On down the line was a bunch of MF 7000series size tractors. All looked nearly new with less than 100hrs. I watched the first few sell and they where selling dirt cheap. Not bidding, I noticed a fellow bidding one every one of them, but not buying or always dropping out when it looked like he would be the winning bidder. Well, after watching a few of the tractors sell, I decided I could buy one and stop at a dealer somewhere and trade it in for a tractor of the size I wanted. I waited and watched a few more sell, all in about the same price range so finally I decided to start bidding. Well as I suspected, that same guy jumped in the bidding when everybody else dropped out to run the bid up. It was me and him and I thought to myself, ole boy, your fixing to get a dose of your own medicine. As soon as he bid, I would throw up my hand, he would bid again and I would throw up my hand, this went on until this tractor was a couple thousand higher than what the others had brought. I guess he thought I was really eager to buy as I was bidding fast and furious, and then I stopped and walked off. Well the auctioneer tried to get me to bid one more time, nope, I bid what I bid and I was outbid, let him have it. Well, then the guy came over to me and said if I would bid one more time he wouldnt bid anymore. Nope, if you didnt want it, you shouldnt have been bidding. Turns out, he owned the tractor to begin with, and he still owned it when I left. A buddy that was with me told me later that the tractor had been placed back in the auction and sold for less than what the others had been bringing. The shill got what he deserved, he lost money and had to pay a buyers premium to boot.

Karma.

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[president]

I might have figured it out! Is it an Amish station wagon? Joe.

good guess