What a waste at an auction

[dave_dj1]

All good reads. Where exactly did the buyers premium come from anyway? I thought they auction houses made a percentage off the sale. I refuse to go to auctions that have buyers premiums. I've even called them on it and they say "you still get good deals" I told them not when I have to pay an extra $13 on a $100 item. Years ago there was some good deals to be had but not so much anymore, at least around here. I have a rule I live by, if I can't buy it used for 1/2 price then I may as well buy new and get a warranty. I believe the internet and television has ruined the prices.

 

[LoveStihlQuality]

All good reads. Where exactly did the buyers premium come from anyway? I thought they auction houses made a percentage off the sale. I refuse to go to auctions that have buyers premiums. I've even called them on it and they say "you still get good deals" I told them not when I have to pay an extra $13 on a $100 item. Years ago there was some good deals to be had but not so much anymore, at least around here. I have a rule I live by, if I can't buy it used for 1/2 price then I may as well buy new and get a warranty. I believe the internet and television has ruined the prices.

The half price is usually my limit as well.

Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk

 

[cantoo]

rarefish383, It was an Amish limo but now it's a $50 playhouse for my Grandchildren.

 

[Dogsout]

I don't understand why you are so concerned that a shill bidder was bidding against you. I know what my highest bid on an item will be and when it reaches that level I'm done. Can't be that hard. If you get caught up in a bidding war and pay more then you want to it is on you not a shill.

 

[SeMoTony]

Just have to know what something is worth before bidding at an auction. Some folks just cant control themselfs. That auctioneer babble is designed to confuse folks and keep the excitement level up too. I like to cruise the auction site before bidding starts. I can look everything over and decide what I am willing to pay and set my maximum bid price before I start bidding. I also use strategies to run bidders out. I'll slow bid if there is more than one other person bidding. I feel this puts a seed a of doubt in the other bidders mind that the item might not be worth what they think it is. Of course this can backfire if the other bidder thinks I am about to drop out. If its just me and one other bidder, I bid fast and furious up to my maximum bid amount. Sometimes this makes the other bidder mad because I out bid them so fast and they will just give up. If the other bidder stays with me, I might jump the bid by a hundred or two, to make them think twice about bidding again. As long as I am under my maximum bid. I dont know if any strategies really work, but I like watching how other folks react under pressure. I have seen folks stomp off grumbleing and some so mad you think you might have to fight your way out. My goal is to not pay more than I have to and not to go over my predetermined maximum numbers I came up with before the bidding started. And I have seen bidding start higher then what I considered maximum value, if so, I just set back and see what the item brings.

Dangest thing I ever saw was two brothers bidding against each other. I went to the auction with them so I knew what they where looking to buy. there was only one of that items in the auction and they needed it pretty bad. Well the bidding started and pretty soon it was down to just two bidders and it turns out the brothers where bidding against each other. They had run the price up a few hundered dollars before they figured out what was going on. I think the auctioneer had already figured it out first. Everybody got a good laugh when the auctioneer announced to one brother, ****, (I guess I have to say Richard instead) you aint going to let David out bid you are you. The look on the brothers face was priceless.

Thanks for letting me know my method isn't original and maybe works. I have had an auctioneer ask why I started where I did. On an 066.that a tree service guy had used for a while and replaced p&c a few times. From the TP thread here I started at less than half of the rate typical here. Could have been less and won since no one there thought it was worth what I got it for. Then I put mix into the tank and the music out of the muffler said I probably was right.
Another auctioneer suggested I jump bigger increments at his garage auction, that stopped the other bidder from further bids for that item. And they used to say coloring outside the lines was not good!

 

[hanniedog]

The problem of the shill bidder is they run the price up you have to pay for an item. As for buyers premiums oh hell no.

 

[muddstopper]

I have been to auctions where there was only a seller or a buyers premium and to a few where they charged both seller and buyer. You really have to be on your toes when it comes to buyer premiums, especially with big ticket items. I have also been to a few auctions where they tag on sales tax. Bid $3-$4000 on a big item and then tag on a 5% buyers fee and 7% sales tax and you find out your bargain aint the bargain you thought it was.

 

[rarefish383]

I don't understand why you are so concerned that a shill bidder was bidding against you. I know what my highest bid on an item will be and when it reaches that level I'm done. Can't be that hard. If you get caught up in a bidding war and pay more then you want to it is on you not a shill.

My problem with the shill is that it's illegal in my state. If I'm high bidder at $100 and I plan on going to $1000, and no one else is bidding, then a guy standing next to the owner runs it up to $800, then slaps the owner on the back and says I got you a few hundred extra on that. Why would I be happy it went for less than my max. I want it for the honest sale price not what some one illegally runs it up to. If I wanted to pay my max right off the top, when the auctioneer opened at $50, I'd yell NO, $1000. Don't see why you want to pay your highest when it might sell much lower, Joe.

 

[Dogsout]

My problem with the shill is that it's illegal in my state. If I'm high bidder at $100 and I plan on going to $1000, and no one else is bidding, then a guy standing next to the owner runs it up to $800, then slaps the owner on the back and says I got you a few hundred extra on that. Why would I be happy it went for less than my max. I want it for the honest sale price not what some one illegally runs it up to. If I wanted to pay my max right off the top, when the auctioneer opened at $50, I'd yell NO, $1000. Don't see why you want to pay your highest when it might sell much lower, Joe.

On your above example what if your high bid was $780 and your done and the shill bids $800. How is that going to be a good deal for the owner? How in the he!! would he have any idea what your high dollar is so he can stop and not own it. Don't see any benefit for the seller to pay commission and still own item should he read you wrong and bid to much running it up. Personally if I get it for my set price or lower I'm happy and don't sweat the small stuff.

 

[rarefish383]

In my example my high bid would have been $1000, so the shill was still below my bid. No body cares if it's a good deal for the owner. People go to auctions to get good deals for the bidders. If it's a quality item it will sell good anyway. What if it drops 30 degrees over night and rains all day, and hardly anyone shows up. Makes good deals for the bidders that did come. Too bad for the owner, he should have put a reserve on it. Oh, but a reserve usually cost a little more or you have to pay a base commission if it doesn't sell. My point is it's against the law and you can be prosecuted for it. A seller takes the chance of not making any money when he puts it on the block. He probably had it in his front yard for a month with his want price on it. Didn't sell. Then he probably put it on CL with a lowered price, didn't sell. Then his wife told him to get the piece of junk out of the yard or go sleep in it. So, it winds up at the auction. It's not the bidders obligation to see to it the seller makes money. I already posted that I called the MD States Attorney and they said it is illegal and they do prosecute. So, with the wonders of the internet, I'll call the Iowa States Attorney and see if it's legal in your state. I'll post what I find out Monday. I'm going to a shooting event over the weekend. I'm sure if the Iowa states attorney says it's illegal in your state also, you'll just tell us how stupid the law is and how stupid people that follow it are. Here, I made it easy "Office of the Attorney General of Iowa" "Consumer Protection Division" 515-281-5164. I found it interesting that they call it the consumer protection division and not the seller protection division.When I was a kid I thought speed limits were really stupid. Then I hit a tree in a 69 340 Swinger at over 90 MPH. I still think a lot of speed limits are stupid, but I tend to obey them now, Joe.

 

[rarefish383]

Geez, here's what I can find in a few minutes. From the website of the Bureau of Consumer Protection: "The Bureau of Consumer Protection stops unfair, deceptive, and fraudulent business practices---". In the case of internet shill bidding, "Shill Bidding is considered "Wire Fraud", and "Shill Bidding was included in the definition of criminal fraud" in the 2006 Fraud Act. Federal Trade Commission 2004, Shill Bidding, "When fraudulent sellers or their "Shills" bid on sellers item to drive the price up." The 2006 Fraud Act is a UK law. That still leaves our Federal trade Commission, Federal Communication Commission, and the Bureau of Consumer Protection that say it's illegal. What's not to like, Joe.

 

[rarefish383]

On your above example what if your high bid was $780 and your done and the shill bids $800. How is that going to be a good deal for the owner? How in the he!! would he have any idea what your high dollar is so he can stop and not own it. Don't see any benefit for the seller to pay commission and still own item should he read you wrong and bid to much running it up. Personally if I get it for my set price or lower I'm happy and don't sweat the small stuff.

If I misunderstood your point, and kind of went off the deep end, sorry. If all you were asking is "what if the shill screws up and wins the bid? How's that good for the seller?" Well, it's not good for the seller. He's stuck with a piece of junk and has to pay the commission too. As long as he doesn't get caught. If he gets caught, it might be quite bad for him, and we will all be laughing at the dumb arse that got busted for buying his own stuff back, Joe.

 

[Dogsout]

Um............Ya...............I am stupid and you are right and I am wrong Joe. Thank you for showing me the light. Here is to hoping you win all of you auction items at bargain basement prices and anyone that should try and shill you be struck dead by a bolt of lightening with their bidding hand up in the air.

 

[Wood Doctor]

Shill bidders are everywhere at auctions but they tend to concentrate on the high-ticket items. Some have been known to be plants and paid commissions by the managers of the auction. They look for legitimate buyers and then bid them up. Yes, it's a racket and it's disgusting.

One time a shill bidder was working on me. I suspected it based on how he was bidding, trying to lure me higher and higher. I let him have it by closing my mouth. I imagine he never found out that I had the same item already on board. Another bidder said to me afterward, "Nice catch. That guy was a shill." I said, "Exactly what I suspected. I wanted a backup, but I hope he enjoys his new equipment."

 

[rarefish383]

Sorry Dogsout, my bad. I said I kinda went off the deep end. I went through another discussion where some one said that a law was stupid and anyone that followed it was stupid too, blahblahblah. That's why I made that statement, meaning I was stupid like the other person said, because I tend to be a very rule oriented person, not meaning you were stupid. But rereading what I said I didn't express it all that well. I know they are out there, if I suspected a shill, I'd just quit bidding. Auctions are social events for me, most of what I buy I resell, except for old model 1899 Savages. I owe ya a beer, Joe.

 

[Dogsout]

All is good Joe thanks for the clarification.

 

[cantoo]

The auction Gods giveth and the auction Gods taketh away. I'll likely never stop going to auctions anyway. I buy what I want and stop when I want regardless of other bidders. I use different "methods" to "win" the items I want, they don't always work though. Just took a quick look thru my auction receipt file, since
March 01 I've bought items at 16 auctions and spent approx $19,000. I don't buy at every auction this includes several online auctions too. This year is less than my normal year. I buy and sell in my spare time. I'm only going to one auction this week, busy doing other things on Saturday.

 

[aokpops]

Almost never go them anymore .

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

All good reads. Where exactly did the buyers premium come from anyway? I thought they auction houses made a percentage off the sale. I refuse to go to auctions that have buyers premiums. I've even called them on it and they say "you still get good deals" I told them not when I have to pay an extra $13 on a $100 item. Years ago there was some good deals to be had but not so much anymore, at least around here. I have a rule I live by, if I can't buy it used for 1/2 price then I may as well buy new and get a warranty. I believe the internet and television has ruined the prices.

I know Ritchie Bros has one. 2500 and under is 10%, over is 2 or 3%. I bought a dump bed this summer... $2500. Had I thought about it I would have bid 2525 or something, would have saved me ~$200.

Was a pain to get it loaded, at first they refused, claiming it was too heavy. IT28 forklift, rated conservatively at 10k, dump bed maybe weighs 4000lbs.
Then it was that the F450 flatbed I brought wasn't able to hold that much. I had to sign papers saying it was on me if the forklift or my truck broke.

 

[cantoo]

Valley, that's one of the reason why I don't go to Richie's anymore. Load out is a hassle. That any minimum bidding amounts.