What Chain To Use

[028AV Super]

Hey Chainsaw Gurus!:greenchainsaw:
I'm a weekend saw warrior and currently using 72LP on my 028AV Super. Mainly cutting/clearing winter and wind damaged trees (Firs and Alders) to fire wood. Some are dirty (leftover from clearing) and seems to do a job on the chains. What do you guys think about MultiCut(M72LP) with extra-heavy-duty chrome plating for dirty conditions. Are they worth the money? What chain profiles takes the most beating and keeps cutting? Are the JP(skip) chains that much quicker then full comp? Have anyone used the Dremel chain sharping attachment? :I've been taking it to Madsen's when all 6 chains (various kind) are dull. Although they do super job and I don't mind the cost, I have to drive 45minutes. I do have hand files but the results are day and night. Please help.:monkey:

Yelm, WA

 

[clearance]

Can't answer everthing, full comp is a little faster than skip, but you need skip for this job for sure. Learn how to hand file, it takes some determination and practice but once you learn it is very satisfying and quick. You can take a cheap axe and hack a bit where you want to cut. Use the search on this site to see how to file, lots of info, I am sure lots will pitch in to help, thats it for me, good luck.

 

[1953greg]

use a clamp on bar file guide w/ the correct file. its fool proof.
works for this fool.

good day 1953greg

 

[028AV Super]

Will try hand file w/guide

Okay, you guys twisted my arm. I'll get a guide and try it out. Anymore recommendation on types of chain profiles?

 

[Lakeside53]

If you're running a 20 Inch bar, try the Stihl full skip - Madsens will give you a deal if you buy two chains or more... If 18, stay with full comp unless you are completly buried and bogging. For your lower HP saw, length in the wood will determine whether you need full skip or full comp. The full skip will keep yout rpm up in big wood and out cut a bogging full comp. I assume you're bogging in the fir?

For dirtier wood like Alder on the mud, try the RM skip (NOT RM2!) for clean wood WITH clean bark, use RS or RSC. The RS is available square ground or round. The RSC is currently just round. After the first blunting, the square will get sharpened to round anyhow... All types available in skip or full comp.

Wish I had RM on my 066 in the weekend - cut a lot of fir and alder... real careful near the ground cut, but... did in a couple of nice RS.. (O.K. the fir was 32 inches across and dented deeply in the ground, so no rolling these baby's over!)

And yes, like others have said, get a stump vice and sharpen by hand..

 

[Lakeside53]

Okay, you guys twisted my arm. I'll get a guide and try it out. Anymore recommendation on types of chain profiles?

I find the clamp on bar guide a PITA... More time fiddling with it than it's worth. Just use a FILE GUIDE and a raker measure. Dead easy to use and in a few chains you'll be happy with how to use it.

 

[RaisedByWolves]

Have anyone used the Dremel chain sharping attachment? :I've been taking it to Madsen's when all 6 chains (various kind) are dull. I do have hand files but the results are day and night. Please help.

Yelm, WA

AGhhh, not the dremel, anything but the dremel...........AAAAGGgghhhhh:jawdrop:



Get a Granberg file-n-joint.

Once you learn how to set it up its simple to use and will set you back less than your paying to have them sharpened.

 

[MikeInParadise]

AGhhh, not the dremel, anything but the dremel...........AAAAGGgghhhhh

Why not the dremel?

I hand sharpened for 30 years and last year tried the dremel and I will never go back. It is much quicker and I just get a better cutting chain. Plus I keep the chains sharper because it is so easy.

Quick and easy, I use an inverter in the truck so when I am back for coffee or lunch a quick touch up and away I go. I use the oregon bits in my dremel without a guide and I am very pleased with the results.

 

[TimberPig]

Why not the dremel?

I hand sharpened for 30 years and last year tried the dremel and I will never go back. It is much quicker and I just get a better cutting chain. Plus I keep the chains sharper because it is so easy.

Quick and easy, I use an inverter in the truck so when I am back for coffee or lunch a quick touch up and away I go. I use the oregon bits in my dremel without a guide and I am very pleased with the results.

If you know how to file a chain properly, it will be sharper than one done with a Dremel and stone. The Dremel also has the unpleasant side effect of potentially burning your cutters if you aren't careful, as well as shorter chain life if you take more off the chain, as occurs more often since the Dremel cuts into the teeth faster. Filing shouldn't take you very long to bring the teeth back to razor sharpness. If it does, you're rocking out chains. That's where a grinder is nice to bring back the shape of the cutter, before a couple file strokes give it a really nice edge.

 

[MikeInParadise]

If you know how to file a chain properly, it will be sharper than one done with a Dremel and stone.

Out of curiosity is this a scientifically proven fact or just your opinion?

I am not trying to be argumentative I would just like to know what the actual science and research shows as my person experience is just the opposite.

From my experience in sharpening wood working tools, planes, chisels lathe tools etc the only way the you can really tell what method of sharpening is best is to look under a microscope.

Anyone got any links to sites on chainsaw sharpening where there are pictures of the two different methods under the microscope?

To be honest the diamond burr bits in the dremels are even better than the oregon bits but I don't have a local supplier.

 

[TimberPig]

Out of curiosity is this a scientifically proven fact or just your opinion?

I am not trying to be argumentative I would just like to know what the actual science and research shows as my person experience is just the opposite.

From my experience in sharpening wood working tools, planes, chisels lathe tools etc the only way the you can really tell what method of sharpening is best is to look under a microscope.

Anyone got any links to sites on chainsaw sharpening where there are pictures of the two different methods under the microscope?

To be honest the diamond burr bits in the dremels are even better than the oregon bits but I don't have a local supplier.

Do a search on here, it has been discussed so much it will make your head spin.

 

[RaisedByWolves]

Out of curiosity is this a scientifically proven fact or just your opinion?

I am not trying to be argumentative I would just like to know what the actual science and research shows as my person experience is just the opposite.

From my experience in sharpening wood working tools, planes, chisels lathe tools etc the only way the you can really tell what method of sharpening is best is to look under a microscope.

Anyone got any links to sites on chainsaw sharpening where there are pictures of the two different methods under the microscope?

To be honest the diamond burr bits in the dremels are even better than the oregon bits but I don't have a local supplier.

Well, youll have to forgive me as my microscope is in the shop.........



But speaking as a Tool & Die maker I can tell you this much and it goes for diamonds as well as stones.

Whenever you attempt to sharpen something you must push material in order to do it. In order to properly push the material as to remove it, the material must be "Backed up". In other words it must have material behind it so you can effectivly push on it without simply bending it out of the way.


With a file you have the choice to push the material into the face of the cutter or away from the face of the cutter. Pushing into the sharp edge (leading edge) would be the proper way.

Pushing twords the leading edge Will result in the file/stone/diamond leaving a burr (a slight feathered edge).


Upon contact with the wood this burr will break off and take some of the base material (witch should be your sharp edge) with it leaving an undesirable angle on the chains edge. At this point your chain is no longer sharp, even though it may look/feel/seem to be and the condition will rapidly degrade.


The problem with using the dremel (other than the fine examples mentioned above by T pig) is that there is no material behind the edge you are trying to sharpen witch causes the stone to Push a larger burr than a file would even if you were using it incorrectly.

This coupled with the fact that the heat imparted to the knife edge of the cutter has nowhere to go, ruins the heat treatment propertys of the steel the cutter is made of and failure of the edge happens even faster.


Not to mention all the grit and carp that gets loaded into the chain using these type sharpeners.



Phew, felt like I was back taking my meatlurgy finals again.






Yes, I said......Meatlurgy

 

[Lakeside53]

Never thought I'd say this but I agree with raisedbypoodles, and timberpiglet

I see more butchered chains because of the dremel attachments than any other method. I'm sure it's possible to do a good job with one (and even I have now and then), but they do burn, burr and make it way to easy to take off a bunch of material in error resulting in uneven teeth and weird angles.

Customers think I'm kidding when I say it will cost 2 sharpens to fix their worthless butchered chain (that's $20 out here)... or I can sell them a new one for $19.50, then it sinks in...

BTW, I run diamond on my USG grinder, and like it, but it also wants to push out a big burr way to easily.. The stone wheels WITH COOL GRIND actually do a better job, but more fussing with profiles etc..

 

[RaisedByWolves]

Never thought I'd say this but I agree with raisedbypoodles, and timberpiglet

ROFLMAO.....



Im buyin you a beer on that one.

 

[028AV Super]

I guess my question is like asking all of you how do you like your egg cooked... I can tell all of us are passionate about our saws. I'll try to perfect the file w/guide. I think there is room for all of these sharpeners.
Hey Andy, you are right! it does bog on the big stuff. I guess 24" bar on 028is too long, but that's how I bought it. I guess the guy set it for limbing. I'll try a set of full skip next trip to Madsen's and final sharpening service! 028 is a nice high RPM saw but little down on the HP. I've looking to buy either Stihl MS280 (quality, known track record) or Husky 359 (good price, quality) as primary saw. I just own 2.5 acres with Fir and Alders so I don't need a Hot Rod saw, you know w/blowers, fuel injected chain bars, tuned headers, 411's, tubbed chain covers, wheelie bars (he, he)! Thanks for the info gents.

 

[TimberPig]

.............
Hey Andy, you are right! it does bog on the big stuff. I guess 24" bar on 028is too long, but that's how I bought it. I guess the guy set it for limbing. I'll try a set of full skip next trip to Madsen's and final sharpening service! 028 is a nice high RPM saw but little down on the HP. I've looking to buy either Stihl MS280 (quality, known track record) or Husky 359 (good price, quality) as primary saw. ..............

Ya a 24" bar, especially with full comp and buried is a little much for that saw. Even in softwood, it's too much for it. Skip will make a noticeable difference.

Just so you know as well, the MS 280 is in no way based off of, or the newer version of, the 028 despite the similarity in names. It is a newer design, that combines some design elements from the homeowner line (crankcase design) with some pro features. Common complaints seem to be that it has a soft feel to the anti vibe. It isn't built quite as ruggedly as an 026 or 028, but is a newer, more advanced design than the 029/ 290 style of the homeowner line.

 

[028AV Super]

Thanks TimberPig,
Everyone I talk to swear by Stihl MS280. I guess that's where professional upgrades is reflected on the price as well.

 

[SawTroll]

I find the clamp on bar guide a PITA... More time fiddling with it than it's worth. Just use a FILE GUIDE and a raker measure. Dead easy to use and in a few chains you'll be happy with how to use it.

I agree on the clamp on guide not beeing worth the trouble...:taped:

Otherwise, the Husky/E-lux combo roller guide/raker guide should be worth trying. The one with the blue body will fit the 72LP etc, and it will also work with 3/8" RS/RSC/RM if slightly modified.
Enter "roller+guide" in the search window, and a lot of reading matter on the subject will turn up.

 

[RaisedByWolves]

I agree on the clamp on guide not beeing worth the trouble...:taped:

Otherwise, the Husky/E-lux combo roller guide/raker guide should be worth trying. The one with the blue body will fit the 72LP etc, and it will also work with 3/8" RS/RSC/RM if slightly modified.
Enter "roller+guide" in the search window, and a lot of reading matter on the subject will turn up.

Can somebody throw me a pic of this? I looked all over, lots of discussion, no pics left, just red X'es.


Once I realized you need to lubricate the slide on the grandberg and keep the cutters gripped properly, I really started to like it as it lets you set all the different angles and raker heights and play with your own specs if you are so inclined.


For me it was just swipe/swipe/index and so on. I also liked the accuracy of it, but if there is something better Ill check it out also.

 

[Dale]

Hey 028AV Super. I have the same saw (028AVSuper) and just love the heck out of it. It's my understanding that the MS260 compares to the 028AV Super, and the MS270 and MS280 has even a bit more HP, but are MidRange saws compared to the Professional MS260. Problem is though... MS260 around here costs $ 450 pre tax. You may want to keep that Super running.

GOSH 24" Bar on an 028 Super ??? They reccommend 16,18, or 20" bars. that has to be a dog no ?