what constitutes a tree that should be cut in the woods?

[husky455rancher]

what i mean is my dad has 2 acres he lets me cut on. none of his trees are huge but its 99% oak. now ive harvested all the dead ones and a few live ones while i was at it.

i still wanna get some more wood but i would like to be smart about it. i dont wanna deforest his land. i guess what im asking is when your walking around in the woods.what tips you guys off? ok that tree should come down and it would be benificial to the other trees surrounding it would improve the woodlot.

ive looked at a bunch of em and i would like to know. i mean do you always cut a hard leaner down? hes got a few but they appear very healthy.


if theres no real way of doing this i guess its close my eyes an pick one lol. thanks, Mike

 

[Dok]

I like to thin the trees out that are growing close together. I also look for damaged trees, trees with a lot of mistletoe and any that are in the way. I'm sure you will get some expert advice soon.
Dok

 

[Zodiac45]

If there's nothing but healthy trees left (you said nothing is very big) and they are well spaced for future growth, then I'd start thinking about finding another area and leaving your dad's for sometime down the road. Two acres will provide no more than 2 cord a year and still maintain itself.

 

[Mike Van]

Might be nice to see something there besides oak? if you've got some other species there, maybe lose a few oaks & give the others some sunshine?

 

[PA Plumber]

What I have done...

Any trees that were showing major distress through the growing season could go.
Main branches/spars/leaders missing leaves and/or dead.

Trees that are very crooked.

If there are two trees growing off of the same root system, I tend to leave them alone, unless they both need to go.

If there are two or three growing very close together(not on the same root system), leave the dominant(strongest/biggest/straightest/healthiest/etc one and remove the other one, or two.

There's more, but maybe this will help a little.
This stuff is easier to just show a person on a woods walk than trying to explain.

If the stand is full of 16 diameter breast height oaks, or bigger, I would probably try to find another place to cut.

We have a few trees that have large holes in them where birds and other critters live. I try to leave these as den trees. If/when they fall, they get turned into firewood. Our woodlot does consist of more than two acres and it allows me to be able to leave the den and woodpecker trees alone.

Great question. I hope the above helps a little.

 

[LumberjkChamp]

Two acres will provide no more than 2 cord a year and still maintain itself.

Yeah, thats a good rule. But two cord for your two acres is the max. even if its good and healthy like you say.

 

[ShoerFast]

Thinning runs into a catch-22 once in a while.

In the West, your more thinning for crown-spacing, while trying to keep the genetically superior trees. Trees with huge crowns can quicker to meet crown spacing requirements, but sometime be your better trees to keep. Culling the scrub might be a better plan in the long run.

I have not meet a County or State planner yet that has a use for Lodge Pole pine, favoring keeping the more advanced Ponderosia and Douglass Fir.

In the east, cutting the ugliest knarrly hollow widow maker might be your best tree for wildlife habitat?

From the hip, I would not have a problem culling trees that just have not developed the crown or reached well into the canopy. Or anything that will not develop good mill-logs, (dog-legs and banana curved trees would be the first to hit the ground. .

 

[Octane]

If all of the trees are healthy, Id look for trees that are encroaching on one another.
If you have 2 trees that are competing for pretty much the same spot, you might as well take one of them down because either one of them wont survivie, or they will compete with each other so much that they wont grow to be as big as they possibly could.

 

[Butch(OH)]

Ya know, until you mentioned it I had not ever given it a thought, which live tree to cut? On the farm we are kept busy keeping the fence rows cut back and the ever dying Elms are probably 1/2 of our wood, add a storm or two through town and we dont need to cut anything else. Around here we have county foresters and they can really help a guy out with things like you are asking. I had ours out several years ago when we had some Walnut harvested and it was well worth the time to take him around the woods.

 

[TJ-Bill]

good answers.. I've been wondering the same thing myself. I have a fix forest with few hard woods though.

 

[BaldSawRunner]

I am currently cutting in a field on my uncle's land, and I only take the trees that have dead limbs on them or the crown has dead tips in them. I have not gotten down into the wooded areas to cut yet, but I have walked it and he has several bent and leaning trees in his woods. Most are bigger trees, and he does not like cutting those down anymore, so he leaves those for my twin brother and me to take down to cut up. Next time I am out there I will try to take a few pics of some of his trees. One has the trunk growing almost parallel to the ground.

 

[husky455rancher]

thanks for the replies guys. i would say imo that his land and along with most of the land on the street used to be a field back in the day. reason i think this is cuse he had really long stone walls cound across 3 directions on the property pretty far back in the woods. now hes owned it since 76 i believe and it was like it when he had the lot cleared to build the house. my other observation is that all the trees he and his neighbors have are under day 2 feet across. theres not one single old growth tree to be found anywhere.

im gonna try to get there on sat and maybe take a walk and look for anything crowded or any real bad leaners.

on a side note his neighbor across the street has 12 acres i think that she had never touched. i wanna ask her if i can cut the dead standing and the dead on the ground. theres gotta be alot there just waiting. i just dont wanna put her on the spot , feeling she has to let me cut. i duuno yet but it sure would be nice.

 

[beerman6]

This is a good topic.I've never cut down a tree just to keep me warm,but after living here on almost 9 acres for almost 7 years I walk thru my woods and think...man that tree is focked up and will never grow like that.

Keep the suggestions coming...

 

[Scootermsp]

Find some "woodlot management" sites on the net

thanks for the replies guys. i would say imo that his land and along with most of the land on the street used to be a field back in the day. reason i think this is cuse he had really long stone walls cound across 3 directions on the property pretty far back in the woods. now hes owned it since 76 i believe and it was like it when he had the lot cleared to build the house. my other observation is that all the trees he and his neighbors have are under day 2 feet across. theres not one single old growth tree to be found anywhere.

im gonna try to get there on sat and maybe take a walk and look for anything crowded or any real bad leaners.

on a side note his neighbor across the street has 12 acres i think that she had never touched. i wanna ask her if i can cut the dead standing and the dead on the ground. theres gotta be alot there just waiting. i just dont wanna put her on the spot , feeling she has to let me cut. i duuno yet but it sure would be nice.

Print out some guides and show her that cutting the standing dead (leave 1 per acre for wildlife) and cleaning out the dead branches on the ground is beneficial to the woodlot that she has. You might also inquire that if she burns wood you might be willing to cut some of hers up for her.....good luckopcorn:

 

[Scootermsp]

Same boat

This is a good topic.I've never cut down a tree just to keep me warm,but after living here on almost 9 acres for almost 7 years I walk thru my woods and think...man that tree is focked up and will never grow like that.

Keep the suggestions coming...

I have 9.5 acres and am cutting standind dead still as well as branches on the ground. I have some huge hemlock trees that are dying from blight and will be a boatload of wood. I still had to shut off the tree guys too, they buried me with 25-30 cords about 70% HW and 30% pine. That will be next years and this summers wood. I have a 200 year old red oak in front of my house (it never got cut because it's right at the intersection of 2 stone walls) and it really is a nice tree and I wouldn't ever cut it down.
I also am cutting back 10-15 feet all the way around my clearing to open it up and prevent any from hitting the house should they fall. One of my tree guys told me this alone would be enough for at least 3 years.
My point here is, with some thought and planning you need not destroy a woodlot so long as it is harvested smartly.

 

[beerman6]

I've got the EAB thing going on here...at least one huge ash is gonna come down this winter not really looking forward to it but...

 

[Marc]

thanks for the replies guys. i would say imo that his land and along with most of the land on the street used to be a field back in the day. reason i think this is cuse he had really long stone walls cound across 3 directions on the property pretty far back in the woods. now hes owned it since 76 i believe and it was like it when he had the lot cleared to build the house. my other observation is that all the trees he and his neighbors have are under day 2 feet across. theres not one single old growth tree to be found anywhere.

Besides the other clues you pointed out, the other way you can tell it was most likely farmland is simply because it's in southern NE. Remember in 1850, according to Bill Bryson's book, we were at about 70% cleared, 30% wooded. You can make a sure bet, anything near a stone wall was clear, even if there's some old stuff near the wall.

Back to your OP, I agree with what's been said so far. If the trees are quite young, I'd pursue that neighbor. It couldn't hurt to ask. If you feel bad about putting her on the spot, tell her she should think about it and get back to you.

 

[TallElf]

I have nearly 4 acres that is mostly open but along the creek I have a pile of Locust. In addition to that, my father has about 98 acres mixed HW/SW, mostly HWs. We haven't ever cut a "live one" standing. It seems that Momma Natural keeps our wood piles overflowing with knockdowns. There was also a neighbor lot that was logged out about 5 years ago. We finally caught up with the Toppers up front and now we are back to picking up the 25 knockdowns that were almost 80 feet tall 18 to 20 diameter. (Guesstimate based on my 18 inch ms290 that is cutting like a champ)

 

[savageactor7]

husky455rancher when your thinking about woodlot management the order of cutting is dead trees, the real big tree and trees that are forked.

Not necessary in that specific order but those are good targets to start. Getting rid of the bigger trees will allow the smaller ones to grow much quicker.

Forked trees or the multi trunked just become weaker over time and can become a hazard. Sometimes you can leave one of the smaller shoots go and that will become a decent tree on its own some day.

 

[sesmith]

husky455rancher when your thinking about woodlot management the order of cutting is dead trees, the real big tree and trees that are forked.

Not necessary in that specific order but those are good targets to start. Getting rid of the bigger trees will allow the smaller ones to grow much quicker.

Forked trees or the multi trunked just become weaker over time and can become a hazard. Sometimes you can leave one of the smaller shoots go and that will become a decent tree on its own some day.

I disagree about cutting the large trees for firewood. First, they may be the ones you may want to be selecting for later saw logs or for seed trees. 2nd, the big trees are the winners as far as natural selection goes. The small trees in an even aged stand may be the same age as the larger trees and may never grow as well. By cutting the best trees and leaving the junk you degrade the forest. Firewood cutting should be used to thin and improve the forest for the better trees to grow. Also, leaving some of the dead and downed trees is a good thing for the forest floor and the critters that use the standing snags.

Here's a link for some free pdf publications from the department of natural resources at Cornell. Lots of interesting stuff here. In particular look at the "How to Choose Firewood Trees" under "Forest Connect".

http://www.dnr.cornell.edu/ext/info/pubs/

Scott