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Ekka

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Couple of pics.

Tree is a Sydney Blue gum, Eucalyptus saligna, DBH 15.3" and ht is 50'.

Interested in your opinions.
 
Decay at the bottom, dieback at the top. Bark dead >1/3 circ, warty callus indicates infection by stem canker. looks like old mower damage. That is, unless E. saligna has some weird looking bark naturally. Which part looks ok to you, lopa?

High target rating. Looks like a replacement opportunity to me.

If anyone needs to be convinced, they could poke in the stem and the roots to see how much support has been decayed. If it's punky deep I wouldn't bother with calculating the formulae. Get it down before it falls in the road.

Careful climbin that sucker too.
 
a bit of thining out and a few years later you wouldnt recognise that tree
 
a_lopa said:
a bit of thining out and a few years later you wouldnt recognise that tree
Look at the basal decay in the first pic. How is crown thinning going to fix that????
 
I'm not familiar with southern hardwoods or in your case Ekka southern hemisphere trees. What tree family are those Gum trees in ???

Larry
 
treeseer said:
Look at the basal decay in the first pic. How is crown thinning going to fix that????[/QUOTE

and where did you get your eucy knowledge ???????????????????????????
 
Worked on eucs a bit in Florida, California. no pro w that species but it sure looks like a lot of rot there, and rot is rot adncanker is canker no matter the species.

Look at the basal decay in the first pic. How is crown thinning going to fix that????

Cmon lopa we're talking aboutthe tree now; save the bashing for later.

Much Later. :)
 
Eucalypts belong to the Myrtaceae family, and yes, those gums have a weird bark, all rough and orangy mainly at the base or wounds etc.

But here's the thing, there is no fruiting bodies anywhere, the timber that is exposed is discolored grey from sun but hard as a rock still (typical euc), the cambium around the rest of the trunk at the wound doesn't seem to be callusing, and seems to be seperating from the heartwood! Weird.

Now the canopy is happy as larry, stuff all die back, foliage has good color for species, no real signs of nutrient deficiencies but is infested with sap suckers and scale.

Oh yeah, the saying for where I live is, beautiful one day ... perfect the next!
 
ive done similar trees knocking half that out r.o.w go past a year or two later and you wouldnt belive its the same tree(s),a good %of my work is bluegums tassie/ sydney.where not dealing with just oaks and ash here :p
 
treeseer said:
Look at the basal decay in the first pic. How is crown thinning going to fix that????

if you had read the post i side nothing about crown thining (topping)
 
a_lopa said:
if you had read the post i side nothing about crown thining (topping)
Lopa, topping is bad reduction; it is not thinning. You said "a bit of thining out and a few years later you wouldnt recognise that tree".
Sorry if I misunderstood; what were you talking about thinning if not the crown?

Ekka said, "those gums have a weird bark, all rough and orangy mainly at the base or wounds etc." I saw the orange in the pic; looks like a symptom--sign??-- of fungal advance.

"But here's the thing, there is no fruiting bodies anywhere"
Lack of fruiting bodies means nothing; some fungi grow a long time without fruiting

", the timber that is exposed is discolored grey from sun but hard as a rock"
Our trees here get that hard too; can make measuring the cavity difficult, becasue there can be a layer of that rock-hard wood covering extreme rot.
Often that hard shell gets soft at the soil line, so Job #1 is an RCE, root collar examination. Poke around and under that hard shell and see what you can see beneath itl

"still (typical euc), the cambium around the rest of the trunk at the wound doesn't seem to be callusing, and seems to be seperating from the heartwood! Weird..
This Weird is not good. The separation just means a larger cavity.

"Now the canopy is happy as larry, stuff all die back,
Pic #2 shows a big dead branch in the top. larry must be an aussie bloke; never met him but he's bonkers if he's happy when his top is dying.

" foliage has good color for species, no real signs of nutrient deficiencies
Leaves are nearly useless as an indicator of safety.

"but is infested with sap suckers and scale.
These are attracted to stressed trees. Ekka is this your tree to manage or in a park? Do you have time to do an RCE?
 
getting pulled in

dont want to get pulled into an argument but dont trees lose branches all the time, small amounts of deadwood to me are not a problem. that is assuming i was looking at the same dead twig.

anyway thats my bit.....

ive met larry he is usually happy with most things....he lives just down the road at number 22

jamie
 
no arguments here; justmy misperceptions. I looked at the pic and that is just a littel dead wood. that it's at the tip is troubling, but it is a little bit. normal for E saligna?

The trunk of course is another issue; not normal at all.
 
As part of an assignment I have to write a detailed report on some trees and this is one of them.

Not allowed to do any lab tests etc, just VTA.

That dead wood that stands out in the canopy is a broken branch that was a co-domimant leader coming off the main trunk at about 12' high, it's the dead stub you can see. There are some dead twigs high up but that's pretty normal.

The damage to the trunk was caused one or both of these ways ... a concrete footpath was laid nearby (within 1') and consequently the tree was damaged, either the roots cut/damaged or even the tree struck by machinery and the bark torn off. I guess the path was laid about 10 years ago.

So I conclude that the damaged area of trunk is getting worse not better.

What peaves me is I've done a lot of work and with a week to hand this darned thing in the lecturer tells me on Thursday I'm not allowed to recommend removals! So I'm tossing up abandoning this tree for another with less problems or finding a different angle of attack. That's why I thru it into this forum to get different perspectives.

It's the first time I've seen cambium just crumbling away from the heartwood and seperating away, I was curious to see if anyone else knew what was going on.

Oh, by the way, this is a real busy site and this is in a traffic island with vehicles travelling all around it!
 
"Not allowed to do any lab tests etc, just VTA.
You can't even do an MTA (Manual...)? You can't poke around the defect to measure and assess it? Can you smell that orange part?

"... a concrete footpath was laid nearby (within 1') and consequently the tree was damaged,
If you dig away the dirt you'll find rotten/missing roots, betcha a shilling.

with a week to hand this darned thing in the lecturer tells me on Thursday I'm not allowed to recommend removals!
* My kinda guy. Tree could have decay excavated, pathogen(s) ID'd if possible, strength loss gauged and risk rated w/ height figured in and also woundwood's extra strength--40% in red maple. Height and sprawl reduced if warranted.

"It's the first time I've seen cambium just crumbling away from the heartwood and seperating away,
I've seen it before but I don't know thecanker/ pest.

"this is a real busy site and this is in a traffic island with vehicles travelling all around it!
If removals are not allowed, then regular monitoring.
"
This form the latest ASCA newsletter:

"It was a wet and windy day. Dad sat idling in his SUV in the line in front of the school, waiting to pick up his child. The next time he saw her, he was in the hospital. A gust had toppled a sugar maple, crushing his car and his back. ,,, the roots that lifted out of the soil in a line parallel to the sidewalk were all dark in color. No living root growing toward the sidewalk was evident. This indicated that the cutting of roots and resultant decay during sidewalk replacement resulted in a loss of stability....


I reviewed the site conditions with the public works director, who told me the sidewalk was replaced six years before. Deadwood was pruned a year before the casualty, but since the leaves were in good shape, the tree was judged to be healthy. An affordable program of tree management was proposed, and high on the list of changes was methods of sidewalk repair. With the publication of Reducing Infrastructure Damage by Tree Roots ( synopsized by Dr. Costello at the 2004 ASCA conference), towns are looking more at other ways of managing pavement near trees. Creatively merging the green infrastructure with the gray, many strategies for resolving conflicts between mature trees and sidewalks are detailed in this book. In order of impact they are:

1. Remove old panels. Install a new sidewalk of packed stone, asphalt, pervious concrete or concrete curved away from buttress roots.
2. Remove old panels. Bridge buttress roots with packed structural soil and sand under fabric. Install sections of recycled rubber, asphalt, bricks, pavers, pervious concrete or concrete above. (If concrete, reinforce with fiberglass rebar, wire mesh, or standard rebar)
3. Leave heaved sidewalk in place and make the surface smoother by either grinding down the lifted edges or making ramps.
4. Remove old panels, prune roots, and install new panels at original grade.

When liability and replacement cost are factored in, strategies #1-3 cost less, but #4 is still by far the most common in our area. I hope I never get another call like this one, but as long as sidewalk installers cut roots, more losses are inevitable."

The book's only $20. here; can you get it in AU?

What will you give us for helpin with yer homework? :p
 
Wow, if damage was done 10 years ago and there is still no sign of compartmentalization, bad sign!

Any sign of base swelling? It didn't look like it, bad sign - no adaptive growth at all then.

Defiantly sounds like the tree is declining / insenecent beyond the point of return. Not in a state of uniform stress at all.

You might get extra marks for calculating the root plate radius and looking at the risks of wind throw seeing the road is so close and there is a high target rating. At the same time you can check for root decay.

I dont think it is a good idea lifting the pavement as the roots will become further more destirbed/damaged.

It doesn't look like a perfect specimn tree by any stretch of the imagination, unfortunately removal and replanting looks like the best option.
 
Thanks for your help guys.

I'll make some long winded story up of how we can crown reduce it to minimize risk etc but the prognosis is ... removal in the long term.

It would be a good one to dissect and see wtf is going on with that base. I can't even drill a flamin hole in the tree. Very frustrating to write a grade 1 report when you're grade 3.

Here's a pic of another one across the road at the very same intersection, check out this one, I can write a mountain of stuff as it doesn't have a visible canker but look at the swelling and dead wood in this baby.
 
Sounds like a good plan.
I was just gona say it would be interesting to disect the base and see whats actually going on!
That tree looks worthy of a report!
Even when studying, see if you can report on trees that you might score a job from
 

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