What is the benefit of .404 Chain ?

[Overkill338]

I had a chance to get a 20" ES (3003) in .404 , and I'm still thinking about it.

With my 241, I ran .325 and Picco bars from 12" to 18", with sprockets from 6T-8T. Just to see how well each combo worked.

So playing with the 462 has me curious about .404 chain. Is it for strength with the 880 and 3120 type saws ? Anyone actually use it with 70cc saws ?

.404/.063
20" ES
3003 000 9721
7T Spur
1122 640 2001
7T Rim Kit
1122 007 1002
7T Rim
0000 642 1207

 

[rwoods]

I am going to guess that a 462 isn't going to be excited about it. I run a 25" stihl .404 bar on an 82cc MAC, but it has more displacement and lives at a lower rpm than a 462. Some .404 chains have longer cutters than others. The longer ones have a longer life naturally. The semi-chisel holds up well in trashy conditions. I run it for the wider kerf (for wedging) and to just be different.

Ron

PS The chain is heavier so I assume it is likewise stronger. I have broken a couple 3/8" chains, but so far not a .404 though I have grounded the drivers off a few. One with a 123cc MAC when the chain jumped and one with the 82cc MAC when the sprocket exploded.

 

[4CornersPuddle]

Halfway through my 20+ years as a professional timber feller, I switched from 3/8ths to .404 chisel. I also switched from 5+ c.i. Homies to a 2100, a 480, and then numerous 281s and then 288s. My experiences mirror rwoods'. Never in more than 10 years of using .404 in the timber woods did I break a chain. Formerly with the 3/8ths, I'd on occasion break one after some sort of mishap.

I much preferred the more massive teeth on the .404. My felling partners all ran 3/8ths on their Husqys and Stihls. I quickly realized I was getting stuck/pinched less frequently in bucking and limbing cuts than the other guys were, and than I had been with the 3/8ths.

To this day I continue to use full comp .404x.063 on my 288s running 30" bars; .375 on the 372s stocked with 28"s. Company saws (I now work for a tree service outfit), are all stocked with .375x.050, including the 066 with its 36" bar. I'll always use my 288 before the 066 unless cutting dirty wood or something else very abusive.

When I need to insert a wedge in a backcut, I appreciate the wider kerf the .404x063 provides.

I have not tried .404 on the various modern 70 cc saws I own. The old 480 was, in retrospect, slightly over chained with full comp .404x.050 on a 28" bar My gut feeling is they would not do as well as they do with skiptooth .375. A 372 or 460 has considerably less lugging power than a modified 288. .404 thrives when a saw has lots of grunt.

 

[Overkill338]

This is something I wanted to try, but after hearing from you guys, and talking to Philbert, I believe this isn't worth pursuing even for curiosity.

 

[user 122190]

I had a chance to get a 20" ES (3003) in .404 , and I'm still thinking about it.

Where did you find this 20" bar? Got a link?

I went from a .325 to a 3/8 on my ms290. Nothing but good.

I'd like to try a .404 on my ms461, as I am very impressed with the .404 on the MS880. The problem is finding a bar at 24" that will run such a chain. My searching comes up as a fail.

 

[rwoods]

Available locally.

https://m.stihlusa.com/products/cha...743591-1781234191.1598743591&rev=BVSpotlights
Ron

 

[psuiewalsh]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Stihl-Roll...434746?hash=item3da95cc6ba:g:KRUAAOSwbp9fObIR

 

[psuiewalsh]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/24-Guide-B...682820?hash=item58f140e044:g:PS0AAOSwTM5Yystn

 

[rwoods]

$80.95 from Stihl's website - order on line pickup in store. Ebay guy wants $124.84. Ron

 

[rwoods]

... .

I much preferred the more massive teeth on the .404. My felling partners all ran 3/8ths on their Husqys and Stihls. I quickly realized I was getting stuck/pinched less frequently in bucking and limbing cuts than the other guys were, and than I had been with the 3/8ths.

... .

Similar experience. I do better with .404.

Ron

 

[Philbert]

So, am I hearing that .404 has advantages on a saw powerful enough to pull it?

If so, that supports my general theory that each saw has a ‘sweet spot’, with a certain sprocket (teeth) / bar (length) / and chain (pitch and type) combination.

Philbert

 

[4CornersPuddle]

Yes, I'd agree with your general theory.

 

[rwoods]

So, am I hearing that .404 has advantages on a saw powerful enough to pull it?

If so, that supports my general theory that each saw has a ‘sweet spot’, with a certain sprocket (teeth) / bar (length) / and chain (pitch and type) combination.

Philbert

Every machine and every situation has a sweet spot. In a race, my saw with 3/8 would likely beat .404. However, I am reminded of a former ASer's slogan relating to chisel vs. semi-chisel in his grit infested wood and dirty logging - chisel was "faster by seconds and slower by minutes." In other words, he got better production at the end of the day from semi-chisel. I seem to do better with .404 on my old saw though it may actually be slower cutting than 3/8s. I don't believe that would be the case with a 462 based upon my limited experience with the 462.

Ron

 

[Maintenance supervisor]

I run .404 chisel square full comp on a Pro mac 700 , a husqvarna L77 ( chipper) and on my 1050A homelites( semi chisel skip) ,oh and my 088.
For its intended purpose it's fantastic and durable ,would I run it on my 028 super wb ? No.
Torque is the key for .404 in my humble opinion , the tooth and spacing of the chain are physically larger so your taking a larger chip of wood with every tooth but how effective this process works is determined by the saw.
I've seen alot of people posting that 3/8 ths is faster and therefore better but if this is a consistent theory swapping over to 1/4" picco on your 660 would make it the fastest saw on YouTube.

 

[huskihl]

So, am I hearing that .404 has advantages on a saw powerful enough to pull it?

If so, that supports my general theory that each saw has a ‘sweet spot’, with a certain sprocket (teeth) / bar (length) / and chain (pitch and type) combination.

Philbert

Only because it lasts longer between sharpenings. 3/8 is still faster on big powerheads because of the thinner kerf

 

[Overkill338]

Where did you find this 20" bar? Got a link?

I went from a .325 to a 3/8 on my ms290. Nothing but good.

I'd like to try a .404 on my ms461, as I am very impressed with the .404 on the MS880. The problem is finding a bar at 24" that will run such a chain. My searching comes up as a fail.

$118 shipped
https://www.ebay.com/itm/264834422951

 

[Overkill338]

So, am I hearing that .404 has advantages on a saw powerful enough to pull it?

If so, that supports my general theory that each saw has a ‘sweet spot’, with a certain sprocket (teeth) / bar (length) / and chain (pitch and type) combination.

Philbert

Phil, that was the whole reason for my 3005 quest with the 241. It cut best with a 16" .325 and 7T.

 

[Overkill338]

Where did you find this 20" bar? Got a link?

I went from a .325 to a 3/8 on my ms290. Nothing but good.

I'd like to try a .404 on my ms461, as I am very impressed with the .404 on the MS880. The problem is finding a bar at 24" that will run such a chain. My searching comes up as a fail.

Nice to see I'm not alone! Just like I was with Mustangs and Sportbikes, I like to wring every bit of use I can out of something.

 

[Overkill338]

I run .404 chisel square full comp on a Pro mac 700 , a husqvarna L77 ( chipper) and on my 1050A homelites( semi chisel skip) ,oh and my 088.
For its intended purpose it's fantastic and durable ,would I run it on my 028 super wb ? No.
Torque is the key for .404 in my humble opinion , the tooth and spacing of the chain are physically larger so your taking a larger chip of wood with every tooth but how effective this process works is determined by the saw.
I've seen alot of people posting that 3/8 ths is faster and therefore better but if this is a consistent theory swapping over to 1/4" picco on your 660 would make it the fastest saw on YouTube.

Don't tempt me. There is a 3/8 Picco bar in 3003. Before someone asks:
Rollomatic E
16" Picco bar 3003 000 6313

 

[stihl86]

So, am I hearing that .404 has advantages on a saw powerful enough to pull it?

If so, that supports my general theory that each saw has a ‘sweet spot’, with a certain sprocket (teeth) / bar (length) / and chain (pitch and type) combination.

Philbert

Just add cutting situation also. As usual, there's no simple answer.
Never seems to be.
Like when Stihl put 1/4" on a HT130 series polesaw.
On paper, great idea. In practice, a bust.