What knot do you use

[Mike Cantolina]

Double Fisherman's. It's used on the snap and biner in the attached pic. I learned it from the tree climbers companion.

Mike

 

[rbtree]

If I'm not using a spliced eye line, I prefer a triple fisherman's---for an extra margin of safety over a double f. I highly suggest all you double users switch to it. It is the best termination knot of all, unless you're tying into a captive eye, as it can be hard to untie. Then a backed up anchor bend is good, or a buntline if there's no room for the two wraps of the anchor. It is those two wraps that make the anchor my line of choice to terminate a light rigging line with a carabiner, as they spread out the load at the connection point.

 

[BigUglySquirrel]

I have used the anchor, double f, and a few other methods. My favorite so far is a split tail system. I tie into a standard shaped 'biner with a bowline with a yosemite tie-off on my lineside. On the tail side I use a captive eye 'biner with a double f (cut it off when it's time for a new tail...keeps goofballs from taking it to tie stuff down. Also makes it super easy to identify the tail), figure 8 on the bridge, Blake's hitch, figure 8 to prevent rollout. If I tie in traditional I tie directly to the D's or to a standard shaped 'biner with the bowline with Yosemite tie-off, figure 8 on the bridge, Blake's hitch, figure 8. The bowline with Yosemite is a GREAT knot and very easy to learn. It basicly gives a bit more security to an already very stable knot. It also gets the tail to exit at the top of the knot so the tail isn't in the way. This also makes it more convenient for the traditional bridge. Can't remember where I learned it...Tree Climbers Comp. maybe...?

 

[BigUglySquirrel]

Sorry bout that....I currently use the anchor bend on my tail side on the captive eye 'biner. Also---what's the general concensus on spliced eye's? I'm going to go to them on my tails, but what about the lineside? Seems to me that it would get stuck easily in crotches and on foliage on retrieval. Any comments here before I pay an extra...what the?!?! $36?!?!?!? Would love to hear what all of you think and have experienced before I order one spliced....thanks!!

 

[rbtree]

Squirrel. I've never hung up a spliced eye when doing line retrieval. And they are awesome for many reasons: stronger than a knot, neater, quicker to work with by far...a real must when craning. Rapping off the ball, with a two biner permanent cambium saver set above the ball, a lot of precious time is saved.

 

[BigUglySquirrel]

No pettibones for me yet...I've used them before for heavy rigging, but not in the tree field yet. But maybe someday...............

Yeah, the splice is really atractive for all those reasons...but the first time I have to go back up a tree because the danged thing got hung....well you get the idea.

 

[Tree Machine]

12 years I have never even once gotten a (naked) spliced eye hung up in a crotch, not one that couldn't be pulled out anyway. An eye tied in with a knot, you can almost expect it to get hung.

I enjoy spliced eyes on climbing lines, rigging lines, rope-based slings and accessory lines. RB said it well, a lot of precious time is saved. Spliced eyes replace the need for knots in a lot of situations. Knots are not required, but everyone uses them as that's the way it's always been done. Nuttin wrong with that.

 

[a_lopa]

splice and biner for me,alround.

 

[Tree Machine]

Dat's what I'm talkin' about! It's so fast and swift and instantaneous, it's almost like cheating. But you know what? It's not like breaking the rules to not rely entirely on knots. I love knots, I really do. But when my job is to work safely and swiftly and earn a living, short of sacraficing the quality of the tree care, I'll take whatever shortcuts work. Biners and spliced eyes are simply where it starts for me.

 

[Tree Machine]

But let me apologise. This thread is not about how NOT to use knots. It's about which knots to USE. I'll step out now.

 

[BigUglySquirrel]

In response to the captive eye biner...the ones I have probably aren't the type you are thinking. I'll see if I can find one and send you the pic.

Tree Machine...as far as spliced eyes go...I'm all for trying it out. Just one problem....I just purchased 2 brand new 120' blue streaks. They're still in the bags, but they don't have eyes spliced. So, does anyone know who can splice these dudes for me? I don't think that Sherril will do it on customer ropes...only they're own stock before shipping. Actually..this should probably go in a new thread....sorry.

 

[Tree Machine]

In response to the captive eye biner...the ones I have probably aren't the type you are thinking. I'll see if I can find one and send you the pic.

A captive eye biner is not necessary, not on a rope. I find one necessary on my flipline adjuster; let me explain as best I can.

The only thing that a captive biner does is keep the biner from flipping upside down. On your flipline this is important because that biner never leaves. You don't need to ever take that one off, and you really don't want it flipping upside down.

On a rope, however, you Dont Want the biner affixed in any way. You want to be able to remove it and it really doesn't matter if it flips upside down because you can flip it back rightside up before you do your rigging (a biner won't flip once you've rigged.) Additionally, imagine pulling a rope out of the tree and there's a 50 kN steel biner clipped to your eye..... :Eye: You better watch where you're standing. It's always better to pull an eyed rope out of the tree without any weight on it. :angel:

Tree Machine...as far as spliced eyes go...I'm all for trying it out. Just one problem....I just purchased 2 brand new 120' blue streaks. They're still in the bags, but they don't have eyes spliced. So, does anyone know who can splice these dudes for me? I don't think that Sherrill will do it on customer ropes...only they're own stock before shipping. Actually..this should probably go in a new thread....sorry.

No, no, no. This is the perfect thread for that. Nick from Wisconsin is the ultimate dude. Just send your ropes to him. Also, Sherrill WILL splice for you if you send your ropes back, or if they're still brand new, mebbe exchange for eyed ropes. They'll cost you some pesos either way you go, but Sherrill or Nick will take care of you.

 

[Tree Machine]

Or you learn how to splice!

 

[BigUglySquirrel]

I don't see me learning to splice a 16 strand line anytime soon. That takes time to learn and time is one thing I'm runnin short on right now. In the future... How would I get ahold of Nick....I called directory assistance for Wisconsin and asked for nick the splicer guy and they said he wasn't listed. ) Okok...bad joke. I'm going to get with Sherril tomorrow see what they say. Thanks for the input!!

 

[BigUglySquirrel]

http://www.okarboristsupply.com/carabiners.htm

Don't know if this works...but the captive eye I use is the DMM captive autogate bout half ways down.

 

[sharpstikman]

hi yall, the rules in the rigging shop where i work are that the rope hasto be new rope we do not splice old rope.just remember that you will lose a couple feet for the splice

 

[stehansen]

bowline

 

[Tree Machine]

Non-captive biners can be made captive using a (very inexpensive) 'trap', a little piece of leather, rubber or stainless steel that you put on the rope/biner interface that keeps the biner from moving around.

The reason you couldn't find Nick from Wisconsin is that he's not in Wisconsin; he's in California. Just call California directory assistance. Everybody in California knows Nick.

 

[rbtree]

Tm, years ago, I tried leather and plastic corner traps, but they didn't work, or broke.

stehansen, a line termination knot should capture the carabiner tightly. A bowline can't, thus cross loading can result, and that is not a good thing! I highly recommend you switch to a triple fisherman's, which is also more secure.

 

[Tree Machine]

True, RB. The leather goes bunk after a season, especially in wet conditions. The plastic ones just break and the rubber ones, they're pretty good but don't stand up to sunlight at all. Little known fact, you can use a 2" (5 cm) piece of webbing, the thinner, 1/2" (13mm) type. Cut both ends of that short piece with a hot blade. With a super-hot (I can't actually recall what I used, mebbe the non-drill end of a drill bit, melt a hole, 1/2" in from each end, giving a 1" (25 mm) spacing between the holes, the same, or slightly smaller diameter than the biner. You have just made a 'trap'.

However, that's for eyed ends and again I'm sorry for derailing a perfectly good knot thread.

Triple fisherman's knot to terminate a rope and attach a biner. I will agree that a T.F. is a classic, bombproof knot. With smaller diameter line, like throwbag line or 6mm tag line or FISHING line, it's a killer knot, one that every Arborist and fisherman should know, but with 13 mm climbing or rigging line...

Although an excellent, biner-gripping testosterone knot, you have just created the biggest, bulkiest rope termination known to man. You're almost required to leave the bitter end straight, unterminated because that's the end you'll be pulling through the crotch to get your rope out of the tree. You pull that T.F. & a biner through, you are asking, begging for the rope to get hung up in a crotch and your request will be answered.