What makes a perfect flipline???

[Tom Dunlap]

New England Ropes has a new rope for lanyards. I felt a piece of it at TCI. It's light weight but stiff like a steel core.

I already posted a description of the DEDA lanyard, double ended double adjusting, on the site. Do a search and I'm sure you'll find it.

The lanyard is made from 3/8" static line and I use double fiherman's hitches to tie the aluminum snaps.

Run one end of the lanyard through your d-ring and then tie on your adjusting hitch to the d. This setup allows you to use the d as a slack tender. One less piece of gear and a few more pennies to use to buy new gear!

Last week I was at Fresco and they said that the company that makes the $14 flat aluminum snaps that are popular for lanyards is out of business. If you have a source for those snaps, buy up a few and stash them. The ones that are available to replace them are a little larger.

Tom

 

[Dan Flinn]

See, that's what's so cool about reading these forums! I now realize that I am using an ancient system compared to you guys. I have two lanyards made from three strand rope with the safety snap spliced on one end and an adjustable loop with a safety snap in the loop.

One adjusts from about 2' to 5' and the other from 3' to about 6'. As I write this, I guess these work fine for me as I don't climb with spikes and mainly use the lanyards as a second point of contact or to hold me in place while limb walking.

Believe me, I am going to reread these threads and start trying new things!

Dan

 

[Greg]

My lanyard is 20' with a distal tied to a william biner with micropulley attached. With the Micro attached you can't easily use it as a double ender which is kind of a bummer, because I used one previously and really liked it, however the distal/micro combo work soooo smoothly that I am commited to it. Long lanyards are the best!!!
I used to have a steel snap on one end but recently changed it to alumn, it got hung on a twig and I yanked it, it came flying at me at a couple of hundred mph and split my lip open. Nice to be literaly drinking and dripping blood at 40ft. The alum would also bust you up, but my steel clip was old, bulky and had a few hard edges that I knew were trouble. The alum does not drop as good as the steel when tossing over a limb, but no big deal.
I typically have my lanyard attached at the center of my harness, I find it much more comfy than at my side d's.

Dan, welcome, and enjoy the site, this will propel your climbing to the next level in a very short period of time.

Greg

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Dan,

Since you're climbing w/two lanyards, the step to a DEDA lanyard will be nothing. One gain is less gear and less weight.

Glad to hear about another Traditional Climber convert to Progressive Climbing!

Tom

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Nick,

Since you're doing splicing for hire, I'd like to ask you a question.

What kind of liability insurance did you find to cover your exposure? I've looked for some odd liability coverages and it's not easy. The cost of these odd coverages has postponed a couple of endeavors that I've thought about. [Nothing related to splicing]

Tom

 

[Dan Flinn]

Tom,

I did a search for the DEDA lanyard, but only came up with this thread - I don't think I searched correctly.

Would you mind describing the setup in a bit more detail.

Many Thanks
Dan

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Last week I was at Fresco and they said that the company that makes the $14 flat aluminum snaps that are popular for lanyards is out of business. If you have a source for those snaps, buy up a few and stash them. The ones that are available to replace them are a little larger.

Better get on Denny Morehouse to get us a replacement product!

Someone let the Petzl people know too.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

That would be "product liability insurance".

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Here is an end to end description of the DEDA:

*Plain aluminum, flat, double locking snap tied with a double fisherman's hitch into 3/8" static line.
*White 5/16" NE EconoBraid friction hitch tied to left d-ring
*Lanyard passes through d-ring so that d-ring acts as the slack tender. You need to pull the rope straight away or bend it forward in order to adjust. If you pull the rope backwards, the friction hitch will sometimes pull backwards through the d-ring.
*Long length of rope in a bite.
*Attached to the side d-ring is a stainless steel bow shackle. The shackle is racked below the white friction hitch.
*A second friction hitch of the same material, this time in red, is tied to the bow shackle.
*On out to a red, aluminum snap.
*Add your favorite slack tender configuration below the red end. Keychain biner or brass snap works well. Skip the rated pulley. Save your money for useful tools.

I carry a 20' lanyard with this system. there are three bites of rope: one from plain biner to ankle back up through friction hitch, fh. Second bite between fh's, third from red fh to ankle to red snap which hangs from saddle.

This system can get to be a mess once in a while. By adjusting all of the loops, I rarely step into a bite. I find that I use the DEDA a lot now that I have it setup. The color coding helps me keep track of which fh to pull, depending on the color of the snap.

Tom

 

[Greg]

Someone who got all of that draw a picture please!!!!
greg

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Here's what I got:

 

[hillbilly]

Mike's picture pretty much has all the information needed, but I think I'm gonna post anyway.
This is the DEDA you were describing Tom ?
If not, let me know and I'll edit my post.

 

[Tim Gardner]

I still like Mike's better. Use that often do ya Mike?

 

[Tree Machine]

Flipline systems -- The Wirecore Flipline

One must realize that Tom Dunlap is one of our resident techno-geniuses. His system is highly evolved and he can probem-solve his way out of ANYTHING. I, too, look forward to the pics, or drawing, and in the meantime I will offer up my flipline evolution.

I've always been kind of a fan on steel-core fliplines. The first couple I had (starting a few years ago, OK?) were the bright orange HI VEE style ones from New England. These were 8-footers with a diameter of 1/2". For my cammed rope-grabbing device, I used a Petzl microcender and an autolock caribiner for my 'microjuster'.

The reason I like 8 foot is several-fold. First, on my 32" waist line, that 8 feet goes around me EXACTLY two times with maybe an inch or two to spare and clips back on to my left-side saddle ring. Most of us, I imagine, aren't a LOT bigger, unless you're John Paul Sanborn, in which case you would need a flipline somewhere between 12 and 19 feet (But remember, he can crush a Sasquatch!).

This flipping 2X around the waist is conveniently convenient because when not in use, the flipline is around your belly area and not hanging down in your lower saddle gear. I permanently affix the thimble/eye end of the line to my right side with a modified delta (triangular) quick link. The line originates on my right side D-ring, goes around (counterclockwise) once, twice, across my belly, clip to the left side. Yesterday I wore a Winter coat and rather than hike my coat up, I went around, once, twice and not being long enough to go across the front side to the left side, I simply clipped to my right side. I think a guy with up to a 40" waist could stow his flipline using this latter description.

Another reason I like 8 foot (aside from it's lighter than 10 foot) is that I don't very often have to flipline around circumferences bigger than 9 1/2 feet (remember, there's a spread of about a foot and a half between your right side permanent attachment, and your left side clip-in attachment) Doing our math, Circumference = pi r and we know our MAXIMUM target circumference to be 9 1/2 feet
9.5 = pi r and dividing both sides by pi, we get r = 9.5 divided by 3.14, or a radius of 3.02 (lets call it three ) feet. Radius is 1/2 the diameter, showing mathematically that you can get an 8 foot flipline around a 6 foot diameter trunk, and clipped back to yourself. You're pasted there. You can't move, but it is possible. For the RARE time that I encounter this, I pull a 30" sling off my harness and use it to elongate my flipline. Here I would clip the sling to my left side, clip the flipline to the middle of the sling and clip the other end of the sling next to the first end, giving me 15 " of extension. If I need a full 30" of extension, well, don't fold the sling in half. By the way, why aren't you just rappelling down this fat trunk anyway? If you're going UP, use your Bigshot and ascend the rope up to smaller diameters.

In searching for 'the better steel-cored flipline', I found one from Wall Safety, which is the yellow one sold through Sherrill. The diameter of this line is 1/2", but if measured with a caliper is just slightly under a half inch. This serves an advantage. Your microcender adjuster moves along it with great ease, without having to depress the cam lever with your thumb. However, when you adjust and clip back on to yoursef, the cam locks in rock solid and bombproof. Still, I back this up. Rather than letting the terminal swivel end hang free, I either continue it around my backside and clip to my right side D-ring, or just clip it on the left side, adjacent to the microjuster. That way, if the microjuster WERE to ever fail, I'mstill clipped in.

A NOTE on the microjuster. I use a Petzl microcender harboring a Kong captive-eye style aluminum biner as the attachment point (and still looking for the ideal biner for this place). The microjuster comes standard, but Petzl includes a small bolt and nylon lock nut to replace the spring pin for use in life support situations. REPLACE THE SPRINGPIN with the permanent bolt. That is all.

Lastly, about dielectric properties (electrical conductivity), wirecore fliplines are NOT APPROVED for trimming around power lines. They WILL conduct electricity, maybe even as easy as your knees, hands, or any other part that is touching a tree that becomes energized. The rope sheath around the wire core is non-conductive, as is a conventional rope or nylon web buckstrap, but that only goes for if it's not wet, or impregnated with grit.

Second lastly, in an earlier thread, there was a statement of a chainsaw having been shown to go through a steelcore flipline in less than a second. Under test conditions, I've no doubt you can make this happen. However, in 'in-tree' conditions I speak from experience, if you are momentarily careless enough to hit your flipline, colorful nylon fuzz will fly everywhere, and there will be a ratcheting vibration through the flipline and INTO your saddle. If these two rather obvious clues aren't enough to make you shut off your saw immediately, then have a nice landing. A regular rope, or nylon buckstrap, I'm sorry, the chainsaw will go right through it, and unless you're roped into a TIP up higher, you're in-flight. That's precisely WHY they make wire core fliplines.

 

[xander9727]

Re: Flipline systems -- The Wirecore Flipline

Originally posted by Tree Machine
Doing our math, Circumference = pi r and we know our MAXIMUM target circumference to be 9 1/2 feet
9.5 = pi r and dividing both sides by pi, we get r = 9.5 divided by 3.14, or a radius of 3.02 (lets call it three ) feet. Radius is 1/2 the diameter, showing mathematically that you can get an 8 foot flipline around a 6 foot diameter

The formula is (2 pi r) or( pi d). A 9.5 line will get you around a 3 foot tree.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

My crewmate Mike, from Wisconsin, got the drawing right. That's what the DEDA becomes every once in a while

Hillbilly, my teammate from Sweden, actually got the drawing right. That's what the DEDA starts out like. Nice job!

Just as I was about the print the DEDA illustration I noticed a little detail. The rope that goes through the d-ring actually should be illustrated going under the curved part of the d and over the straight leg of the d. Otherwise the slack tending characteristics won't work as well.

Tom

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Actualy, to split ahirs, the length of lanyard needed would be more like (c/2)+(r2)+ y.

Y being the climbers prefered relief from the trunk.

Draw a circle for the spar, put the climber on and add the lanyard and relief.

Half c because the line comes around the backside of the tree. 2r because the ends then come to the d rings. ok the geometry is not perfect with d=36. maybe the math police will go into that.

 

[Tim Gardner]

I like for my body to be at an angle of 40 – 45 degrees to the trunk so that my gaffs will not kick out on me. It also allows me to have plenty of room to use a saw and seems to take a lot of the weight off my arches. The 10’ steel core barely allows this on some trees I climb. The stiffness of it makes it a lot easier to work your way up to a smaller diameter section. I could not imagine using an eight footer for this. You might as well grab the ladder off the chipper and do that uneasy “step off” onto the tree. I like my 16 strand lanyard for it’s lightness but the WCF will slide or “flip” up a large spar easier.

 

[hillbilly]

what don't you do to please the tree legends

Revised orientation through D-ring

 

[Mahk]

Originally posted by Tim Gardner

How are you able to do pruning without adjusting your lanyard? Every time I get in position on a limb walk I have to adjust my lanyard so I can be “locked” into the right spot to make cuts or use a pole pruner.

Tim;

The 'Beraneck' is adjustable. It just doesn't allow as easy adjustment as any of the types, mechanical or rope, that have the adjustment at the hip. Also , the 'adjuster' (knot) is sometimes at the backside of the stem. What I am calling a 'Beraneck' is the same as the 'adjustable buckstrap' on p. 16 of the Sherrill catalogue.

As I said before, I use this mainly for pruning, when most of the work is up in the canopy and I'm not trying to 'stand' right on the trunk. By having the lanyard over my shoulder and carrying a chainsaw only when needed, pruning is a lot less tangled.


How do you make a quoted post appear in bold text?


Mahk