What should i have done?

[beastmaster]

A few months ago I was working on a week-end for a company I used to work for doing a crane removal of a large Cedrus deodara. I removed most the green Saturday, and Sunday morning the rental crane(40ton)came. The Job took most of the day, and the crane was by the hour. The tree was big and about 30 feet up it branched into two tops. I got it down to the main trunk with two short branches where the tops had been. The owner of the company told me we were taking the whole thing leaving a 10ft stomp because it was getting late. I had the cable already around one of the large stubs. This thing was maybe 50in between where it branched. I tell the boss I'm not conferable taking that whole thing. I was worried the way the cable was hooked as it looked like it would swing into me and shockload the crane. He insisted I do it or get out of the tree. After climbing down he sends a grounds man up a ladder and he makes the cut. I had gone over and told the operator my thoughts, and he assured me everything would be all right. I told the grounds man'',Muy malo, palegro. I broke out my camara just as the crane starts tipping over. The piece swings into the trunk barely missing the groundsman(He's so lucky) and does a slow controlled fall on top of the roof next door taking out a block wall fence. Every one was blaming each other. The grounds man could of been killed, should I have done more to have stopped it? What if it had worked and I had made a big deal of it I'ed of been idiot of the year. I know this is long winded but it's been praying on my mind a lot. What should I of did?

 

[TDunk]

I think you did the right thing. When your boss says it'll be fine and the crane operator says it's going to be ok, there's not much else you can do. Glad to hear the grounds man is ok, and that you had enough branes to express your concern and get out of the tree.

 

[ASD]

i think you did the right thing. When your boss says it'll be fine and the crane operator says it's going to be ok, there's not much else you can do. Glad to hear the grounds man is ok, and that you had enough branes to express your concern and get out of the tree.

+1

 

[2dogs]

I think you did the right thing. When your boss says it'll be fine and the crane operator says it's going to be ok, there's not much else you can do. Glad to hear the grounds man is ok, and that you had enough branes to express your concern and get out of the tree.

Same here. Though a nice kick in your bosses rear would probably make you feel better. Pics?

 

[ddhlakebound]

+2

You did exactly the right thing, and you're belief was proven correct on the spot. Very lucky that only property was hurt.

I bet the boss man thinks twice next time when you speak up, if you ever work w/ him in the future.

 

[tree MDS]

It sounds like you did all that you could reasonably be expected to do given that situation. Sad though. I have not done too many crane jobs....but I have noticed the crane trend more in recent years, in my opinion too many people dont really give this type of work - even treework in general, with or without a crane - the respect that it should command. I immagine thats why workers comp is so high.

 

[Job Corps Tree]

What should I have done

You did just Right, don't worry about the main thing is Can go Home after the day is done

 

[treeclimber101]

I think the title of this thread should be what should I do next, and the answer to that is never work for that guy again , and I was once told when you overload a crane not getting hit by the pic is alot easier than not getting hit by the crane that is close behind ,what a awful scenario , but you did the right thing and the size of your :censored: are not measured by the words on your tombstone..

 

[treevet]

It is not real clear....did the crane tip over and hit the stone wall or did the piece tip over while the crane was going over ("a slow controlled fall") or did they both go over?

You did the right thing but maybe could have protested more as you were obviously the only that recognized the dynamics of the situation. I wouldn't work for this guy anymore.....sending a gm up on a ladder besides not recognizing a hazardous situation.

Tipping over a 40 tonner? Must have been a honker or the pick not set up correctly.

 

[beastmaster]

It is not real clear....did the crane tip over and hit the stone wall or did the piece tip over while the crane was going over ("a slow controlled fall") or did they both go over?
Tipping over a 40 tonner? Must have been a honker or the pick not set up correctly.

To give the crane operator credit, I'll say he didn't panic. He
was still moving the boom and slowly lowering even as it was going on its side. It was all happening in slow motion. He saved that groundsmans life
It was a monster piece and he was lifting broadside to the crane. It didn't go all the way over, but would have if the operator hadn't lowered the piece as it was going over. The outrigger was all the way out so you can see how high that crane had to overcome to go over. I heard the operator lost his job and the roof and fence still haven't been fixed. The beginning of the job I assured the old lady next door I wouldn't hurt her rose bushes next to the fence.

 

[treevet]

typical end of the day corner cutting accident probably based on fatigue or impatience. Why didn't the owner go up to make the cut instead of sacrificing a groundman if he was so sure and contradicting you?

You had one other option if they wouldn't listen to you.....leave the jobsite.....But you prob wouldn't have gotten paid for the day(?)

I don't think I would let off the crane op so easy. He has final say in all picks and you need a lot of background to handle tree work and esp the job you describe.

 

[arborist]

Safety always first.

I heard the operator lost his job

He should of lost more than that........His crane operators license.

Wise man for simply saying no and walking away from the situation.
If the tree service owner want's you to work with him again,make one mandatory claim....You fully run the show,or he pays double for the full day he starts to run things,AND you walk away for that day.
Otherwise,tell him you and him are through.
Safety always first.
Good job!!!! You did the correct, safest, professional thing possible.
Now you can continue to enjoy something we call life,rather than becoming another statistic (yeah, damn lucky groundsman!)

 

[Recon Freak]

When in question ASK!

When it comes time to make a questionable pick, I always ask what weight the crane good for and take multiple looks at the piece before going ahead with it. The LMI is my best friend during any crane operation!!! I almost forgot GOOD on you! You should never let anyone put you in a spot like that under any circumstance! This profession has enough risk without getting in a rush.

 

[zopi]

Dude...big cojones standing up...safety is everyone's job, I just hope the boss
isn't too arrogant to learn an honest lesson...poor judgment in moving big weight is the easiest way to get someone killed...

if the guy has any sense at all, you get a raise and nobody questions your judgment anymore...

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Did the crane have a scale in it? Could you have made a smaller pic and rubbed his nose in the weight?

Almost all I do is sub, and the one time I went against my better judgment and did what my client wanted, we broke out the secondary rigging point and he was nearly crushed by both the spar and the load. That was 8 years ago and I have never allowed someone to dictate how i work in the tree again.

BTW did you get paid?

 

[cjnspecial]

You did the right thing, there's not much else you can do if your boss okayed it. Like other's have said, you need to find a new employer because the guy you work for won't be in business long making decisions like that. He put his ass on the line to save a little time. From what you said here is what could have happened if things had went just a little worse:
1. Work comp claim...... Insurance rates go up and they ain't cheap in CA to begin with.
2. Employers Liability Claim....If the groundman or any other employee was hurt. He put his employee(s) in harms way. Most companies have $1M EL limits but EL claims can easily surpass that and whatever the Insurance company doesn't cover becomes the employers responsibility.
3. GL Claim(s)....from damaging the neighbors house/yard. Again...this could have been a lot worse.

Any decent insurance company would drop him like a hot potato leaving him for the assigned risk pool or if he's already with them, he would be facing a huge rate increase. Most companies couldn't survive the extra financial burden of the increased costs, bad reputation and additional legal liabilities so they just close up shop.
Hardly seems worth the time saved does it? Stay safe.

 

[treemandan]

Fantastic turn of events. You sure know when to fold. cheers.

 

[randyg]

What would I have done?

I might have gone ahead and cut where I had planned, (once you start the saw, boss can't be heard) and when boss starts screaming after you shut off the saw, say "looks like 10 foot stump to me boss, whats the problem?" Then say you miss understood, and are soooooo sorry, and hurry back with that choker so we can take this last pick already.

I think you did fine by bailing though.

Boss and crane op BOTH mis-judged weight of pick. You went on gut feeling I'm guessing? Why all the guess work? Large tops and limbs are for guessing. Green log weight tables are available for free. Don't leave home without one. Type wood you are working, make cheat note of weight per foot of 10, 20, 30, and 40 inch piece. All you need to remember is 4 numbers, and you estimate size wood, crane op should be able to check his charts and tell safe pick weight, do the math. If op says he can pick 8 thou., I shoot for no more than 4. Might take one or two extra picks, but will be around to do it again tomorrow again and with fewer gray hairs as well.

Glad you are still with us!

randy

 

[Mikecutstrees]

I agree with Randy above. You did the right thing. Safety is #1. The boss is a scumbag for putting a groundie in that position..... Mike

 

[beastmaster]

I used that owner for a reference for a job. He told them I walk off a job with out finishing it and not to hire me. I had a similar situation last week again. We were removing some big pines, pulling them over with a front loader. I had to make the cuts about 10ft up to jump them over a fence. One had a hard lean the wrong direction. I said i could do it if we pulled it 180 from the lean. There was a big high voltage box under the tree. The tipping line wasn't high enough in the tree to suit me either. Looking closer the tree twisted making it hard to pin point how it might fall. If anything want wrong there was to many targets. I told him I wasn't sure about it. He said let someone else do it. Our other climber doesn't even know what holding wood or a hinge is, so against my better judgment I do it. It went perfect. Ied of been called a sissy la la if I had refused and the other guy did it. Lots of competition for jobs and positions out this way sometimes forceing you to go against your better jughtmen