What Tonnage splitter?

[postframer82]

I myself am new to the splitting and have decided to build my own, It isn't really all that much cheaper than buying on considering the time and effort. I'm up to about $600. The engine Was given to me from my uncle, an 18 hp. twin B&G vert. I know it sounds like a big motor for a splitter, but I have it, It has electric start, but most importantly, I think it should have the power to maintain rpms when the ram hits the log. The mechanic that we take our heavy epuipment to for our polebarn buisness told me that when it comes to hydraulics, pressure is power. Knowing that, m houghs are tha he higher he rpms stay on the motor, The more pressure the pump will push, mainaning constant pressure to he ram for smooher, quicker splitting. I have also selected a 16 gpm barns pump to put on that after talking to a hydraulic tech. He had an equation that he put my engine into and came back with the recomendation of a 14 or 16 gpm pump. I wanted a little faster cycle time so went with a 16. I thought about a 22 gpm, but he said bad idea. I'd recomend to you that if your running a 8-10 hp, go with the 12 or 14 gpm. That will help the engine from working so hard to maintain its rpms which in turn keeps up the pressure.... those are my thoughts. If anybody knows otherwise please do correct me! I need to know for myself! Hope I could be of an assistance to ya. Oh, Keep your eyes open for a junk lawnmower with a decent motor in it. Its a cheaper way to get started (engine, battery, throttle, motor mount, etc.) with a bigger motor!

 

[postframer82]

Oh, also one more thing... That mechanic also told me that the bigger the cylinder diameter, the more power, but slower cylce times because it takes more fluid to fill it. I wanted to go with a 6" or 7" but didn't like the $ more them and decided to go with a 5"x28"x2" at northerntool.com for $220

 

[Whiteindustries]

A 16gpm with a 5" maybe slow.

Oh, also one more thing... That mechanic also told me that the bigger the cylinder diameter, the more power, but slower cylce times because it takes more fluid to fill it. I wanted to go with a 6" or 7" but didn't like the $ more them and decided to go with a 5"x28"x2" at northerntool.com for $220

I havent sat down with any formulas but I have been running 8hp with 16 gpm pumps for years and the engine has no problem keeping up rpms for the pump(Splitting big up to 30" dia 16"-18" oak).The pump will kick down to the slower stage buts thats about it.Engine doesnt change rpm just keeps running away.
If you are going to run a 5"piston I would recommend a 22gpm pump with all that horse power you have it will be wasted on a 16gpm pump.18hp and 22gpm is what you see on small processors as a setup NOT a 16gpm pump.
I am in the process of upgrading to a 13hp with 22gpm pump to get more speed out of my splitter.
I believe the pumps are constant flow once they hit a certain rpm so as long as the engine reaches that rpm or above the flow wouldnt change.
Just look around at the specs on the commercial splitters(Timberwolf,Rayco,big Northern), you wont see a high end splitter running a big motor and 16gpm pump.
Just my two cents.
http://www.timberwolfcorp.com/splitters/tw7/tw7.htm
http://www.raycomfg.com/Environmental/LS2526LogSplitter/LS2526LogSplitter.html
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/...0&productId=200306949&R=200306949#productinfo
http://www.americanmsr.com/product-specs.htm

 

[CaseyForrest]

Yeah..Postframer, with that 18 horse motor you can turn a 2 stage, 28 GPM pump with no problem. You friend is right if you arent using a two stage pump, single stage pumps need constant power. But a 2 stage pump will run full GPM at 650 psi, once you get over 650 psi it will kick down to 2.9 GPM up to 3000 psi, which is how you can get away with using a low HP motor and still get quick cycle times.

 

[CaseyForrest]

On another note, just bought a 27 ton splitter from Homey D. Its built well, has a honda motor, albeit only 5.5 horse, but can upgrade to 10 horse and 16 GPM pump when things break. The only immediate upgrade I will do is either add a cooler for the Hydro oil as its only got 3.5 gallons in reserve, or add another tank inline or cut the smaller one out and replace it with something in the order of 10 to 15 gallons.

 

[eric_271]

The last splitter I built I used a 4 or 4 1/2 inch cylinder with a 16 gpm pump. It was fast and had plenty of power to split osage orange and its harder then oak. I used more engine on it then I needed, a 14 hp kohler. I could set it just over idle and it split good with out pulling the motor down. At less then part throttle it ran the pump as fast as it would go and faster cycle time. With a 5 inch cylinder and a 16 gpm postframers cycle time will be slower then a 4 or 4 1/2 cylinder. That 5 inch cylinder will go noticeably faster with a 22 gpm pump.

 

[postframer82]

hey thanks for the points, I will definatly look into the 22 gpm then. You seem to have some experience. The tech that I talk to just seemed to have an equation, not ewperience with splitters I think your input seems more creditable. Thanks! Hey Caseyforest, I think that maybe you should consider disregarding my thoughts.

 

[CaseyForrest]

LOL....I dont disregard anything, if everyone was right all the time it would mean no one is wrong and hence give no one a reason to think! I still plan on building a heavier splitter, I already have half the parts I need. I now dont have to scramble to build one, I can take my time and build it heavy.

 

[WESCOMAN]

Definatley go with the 22GPM pump. Also look into a 10 gallon (Minimum) hydraulic tank. That would give you about 12 gallons. Also get a 10 micron filter. If it were me I would go with as big a hydraulic reserve tank as possible. Say 20 gallons if you have the room. The valves also can be adjusted to get 2750 PSI but if you can find one get a 3,000 psi valve. 3/4"(minimum) inlets and outlets as well and try and avoid 90 degree turns (you may not be able to everywhere). For every 90 degree turn or elbow its like adding 15' to your hoses. Also keep your pump as low as possible in regards to your hyraulic tank. Most people think they have a 24 or 30 ton splitter. That was a cheap trick by the log splitter manufacturers. If your splitter is rated at 24 tons then its most likely a 15 to 18 ton splitter. I believe EYEINSTINE said this before, but that rating is for 3,000 psi across the entire system. 99% of all your log splitter valves (the handle you pull and push top operate splitter ram) come set at 2250 psi. Thats a 25% reduction in the log splitters rating. So if you have a 20 ton splitter its really a 15 ton and thats just with the valve figured in. Now figure all the 90 degree fittings and small hose diameters ect ect. Hydraulic fluid Temp. is another equation (thats the need for a large capacity reserve). All that plays a part. Hope this helped.

 

[WESCOMAN]

Remember this. A commercail hydraulic system on anything has about (minimum) 3 gallons per GPM rating. Hydraulic systems get very hot so the larger the reserve the cooler the system stays. The exception is always log splitters. You dont have the room to put a 60 gallon reserve tank for your 20 gpm pump. The good thing is that the system operates outside which helps keep it cool (not much though) and doesnt go 24 hours a day. Still a minimum of 10 gallons is needed for any splitter (home owner use) and 20 gallons for commercail use. These are minimums.

 

[CaseyForrest]

I just got my spliiter and have been thinking of a way to increase the measely 3.5 gallon reserve. It is an MTD 27 ton from Home Depot. Im tossing around the idea of hacing a welding shop weld a tank just like the one thats on it now, but bigger. Not sure if any of you are familiar, but the hydraulic tanks is basically a piece of rectangular tube with ends welded on and wheel spindles welded to that. SO, my other thought is buy a 10 gallon tank and mount it under the tounge, and then plumb it inline with the stock one. Or....add a cooler over top of the engine, and let the engine draw air over it...what do you all think?>

 

[WESCOMAN]

Instead of adding another tank and possible 2 more areas for leaks I would just replace that tank if easy to do so. Does your system have a filter? If not get one.

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/...ngId=-1&productId=12006&R=12006&issearch=4020

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/...tDisplay?storeId=6970&productId=23548&R=23548

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/NTELargeImageView?rfno=23548&storeId=6970

 

[WESCOMAN]

Your system should be holding about 5.5 gallons. IF the tank is 3.5 then there should be about 2 gallons in the cylinder and lines. I'm not sure how to modify that system. Check the hydraulic oil level after you run it for a few times. (check before start up and at end of each splitting session) :Eye:

 

[postframer82]

First of all I would like to thank you all for sharing Ideas. Its kind of a pain in the ... to think of everything by yourself or from freinds and family who don't really have any experience with what your trying to build. Second, I don't remember who it was that mentioned it, but someone said on another thread here a few weeks ago to use another I beam rotated to H and weld that to the underside of your splitting beam. Plug the ends and bottom drill some holes and hook up the pluming from there and you have a large Hyd. tank that is out of the way and has more surface area to help with the cooling. Oh, I have also decided to return the 16 gpm and bump it up to a 22 gpm, but can't quit afford to go all the way to a 28. Thanks!

 

[CaseyForrest]

I am going to use a piece of heavy square tube as my beam for the splitter I am going to build. I will also add a 7" piece of flat stock 1/2" thick to the top to help stiffen and also give the wedge something slide and lock onto. I also got the suggestion to use the square tube as my hydro tank, but after thinking about it, you may have plenty of capacity, but run the risk of running the pump dry if you are at all on any incline. You MUST make sure your suction port always has oil to it. After much thought about it, even though it would be easier and take up less space to use the beam...Im leaning towards using a 20 gallon tank, as I can get it for free.

 

[postframer82]

That is a good point with the incline

 

[Whiteindustries]

Hydraulic parts

Someone had mentioned Balieys Hydraulics above, below is their website, looks like a pretty good place.

http://www.baileynet.com

I am rebuilding one of my splitters ,It is an American MSR 25H.Had a 8hp 16gpm pump with a four way wedge,I am in the process of adding a 13hp with 22gpm 2 stage pump and a 15 gal tank.
I am sticking with the 4" cyl for now as it had plenty of power before, just trying to quicken it up for now.
I will be adding a log lift/table as time allows and maybe a hydraulically controlled wedge.
I am going to try and take the 8hp and 16gpm pump/tank and convert my chain conveyor from belt drive to Hydraulic drive.Just need to figure out what size hydraulic motor I need for that.

 

[jokers]

I also got the suggestion to use the square tube as my hydro tank, but after thinking about it, you may have plenty of capacity, but run the risk of running the pump dry if you are at all on any incline. You MUST make sure your suction port always has oil to it. After much thought about it, even though it would be easier and take up less space to use the beam...Im leaning towards using a 20 gallon tank, as I can get it for free.

If you are on enough of an incline to compromise net positive suction head(npsh) to the hydro pump, what are you doing to the engine`s oil pump, or worse yet an engine with a dip lubricator? I`ve seen many splitters incorporating some type of rectangular tube as an oil reservoir with no problems.

Russ

 

[Wolfcsm]

If you have a Tractor Supply there, you might look at the ones they have available. I have used the smaller one quite a bit but bought the larger model. Most all of what I split is Oak and ranges in size from 6" to 36". I have never found a piece of wood that my splitter could not split or cut.

Hal

 

[CaseyForrest]

Joker, rectangular, yes, but Im talking square tubing 4" x4" and 6' long, there would be a problem with suction at some point Im sure.