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SWAMPY036

ArboristSite Operative
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Got a call yesterday to look at a willow removal. When I get to the house I see it is a big old weeping willow needs to be climbed and sectioned down. The guy says he will clean up and dont worry about lawn damage. Well checking out the root and trunk I see holes about every 2" all the way around the tree. I point them out and ask if he knows what they are he says his brother bored the holes and filled them with poison to kill the tree. The holes are about 10" deep and no visual affects any one run across this and have advise to look for.
 
Got a call yesterday to look at a willow removal. When I get to the house I see it is a big old weeping willow needs to be climbed and sectioned down. The guy says he will clean up and dont worry about lawn damage. Well checking out the root and trunk I see holes about every 2" all the way around the tree. I point them out and ask if he knows what they are he says his brother bored the holes and filled them with poison to kill the tree. The holes are about 10" deep and no visual affects any one run across this and have advise to look for.
Hmmm Willow very weak wooded holes drilled two inch all the
way around base and poisoned then they want me to climb it
my price would be extremely high.
 
Use A Bucket And A Carin

what about city permits????? around here when a home owner trys to kill a large tree is because the city dose not want it removed make shure you cross your t and dot the I's on this 1
 
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I'd walk from that one. What kind of poison? How long of a residual is there?

With the amount of debris that flies around during removals, you're bound to ingest some whether in the form of dust and inhaled or soaked through your skin.

Awhile back, I was looking up while making a back cut on a pin oak and got a face full of something...not sure what. We had had a lot rain that week so the tree was pretty wet. I know that the tree was treated for oak wilt and since I've never tried to taste Alamo, I didn't have a reference to know if that's what it is was, or just nasty, old, tree water and racoon pee. Whatever...the point is, you're likely to contact that poison somehow.
 
Alamo translocation will show blue staining in the sapwood. Higher up the concentrations will be very low.

I have cut many of larger tree and had pockets of stagnant water com gushing out. A couple of times where an included crotch dumped out when felling a top out.

On the willow removal, I would bid it a bit higher, sometimes when you get big trees on the ground w/o cleanup you have problems towards the end. You might offer to do it in stages so he can clean up as you go.

You may want to bid it for 2 ground people so that you can move limbs out of the way as they come down.

No matter what, get it in the agreement that you are just putting the tree on the ground and any subsequent cleanup will be T&M. I've heard horror stories where the client RTP on this type of job after seeing the size of the mess and demand that the debris be cleared at no extra cost.
 
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I've heard horror stories where the client RTP on this type of job after seeing the size of the mess and demand that the debris be cleared at no extra cost.
yeah i could tell a few Refuse To Pay stories where the bums changed their tune after the spit hit the ground. In writing and SIGNED.
 
I've got to agree with ASD on this one, Swampy. You have to ask WHY did the brothers poison this tree.

In many jurisdictions around here, you need a permit to remove trees over a certain dbh or of certain species, some you need a permit to prune.

I must get asked half a dozen times a year, "How can I kill my tree?" It almost always turns out that they were denied a permit because the tree is perfectly healthy and the first thing the homeowner comes up with is: OK, I'll make it unhealthy.

Certainly can't say this is the situation where you are, but here participation in such a scheme or proceding with a removal without permit is a hefty fine and a homeowner poisoned tree would be a huge red flag.

Incidentally, I have even seen the property owner here circumvent the tree bylaw office by going through the building permit office complete with engineered blueprints ($1000's) for a large addition they have no intention of building, just to get a tree to fall inside the new building envelope to get rid of a tree. Sad, but true. (Though it makes for an easy removal, because they can't claim they need the landscaping preserved!)

I'd be real careful on the legal side of this one, to say nothing of the structural and clean-up side that others have mentioned.


RedlineIt
 
poison

Got a call yesterday to look at a willow removal. When I get to the house I see it is a big old weeping willow needs to be climbed and sectioned down. The guy says he will clean up and dont worry about lawn damage. Well checking out the root and trunk I see holes about every 2" all the way around the tree. I point them out and ask if he knows what they are he says his brother bored the holes and filled them with poison to kill the tree. The holes are about 10" deep and no visual affects any one run across this and have advise to look for.

I wonder about as mentioned previously injesting or inhaling saw dust laced with poison? I have cut poisened trees and remeber being put off by the wierd smell of the wood near the bore holes, humph?

I have come across this bored poison apllication a couple of times with douglas fir. In the couple months of application, the pioson [I think it was bleach and various herbicides like roundup] did not seem to do anything obvious to the trees health. Mind you they were stunted and ugly to start with owing to the fact they were right on the ocean and subject to strong winds.
They were hedging thier bets on weather they would get a permit for a live tree removal. They recieved the permit with killing the trees anyways. Others in my area have had to kill thier trees outright before they could get issued a permit for removal. Which is my beef with the tree presevation bylaw when its enforced with out any give and take. Better to lose a battle to win the war now and then
 
I love trees, but....

originally posted by RedLineIt:

I must get asked half a dozen times a year, "How can I kill my tree?" It almost always turns out that they were denied a permit because the tree is perfectly healthy and the first thing the homeowner comes up with is: OK, I'll make it unhealthy.

Can someone explain to me why a person who owns the land and everything on it should be forced to ask the Gov't (any Government) if they can have a tree removed? There may be some instances when removal of a tree may adversely affect some neighbor's property, even then I am not comfortable with any Gov't involvement.

I have never needed a permit for a removal. I have, therefore, never been denied. So don't try to say this is anything other than my disdain for the Goverment being more involved in the lives of the people than necessary. I can't stand it and the idea angers me. So please give me a good reason that the Gov't should have any jurisdiction over a home owner's tree. We should all be responsible for damage caused by trees on our property, but the Gov't shouldn't be able to tell anyone that they can't have their own property removed. That is asinine!!!
 
polingspig,

I take no particular political position on these tree preservation bylaws, for me they simply are what they are, and part of doing business.

But to me, it would be similar to purchasing an old house that is protected from radical change or renovation by heritage building bylaws. If you object, don't buy the property. Plenty of other places to live.

I believe the existance of such laws extend from the perception that the integrity of a neighborhood has a value to the community as a whole that outweighs the rights of an individual property owner. I think you'll find the same is true in areas of the USA such as New England, the San Francisco Bay area, and historic parts of the eastern seaboard where quaintness is considered kind of an international calling card.

There are some truly impressive Sequoia here that are protected, and I'd say that's a good thing. But it does get out of hand with some protection officers, no doubt. I was once threatened with a fine mid-job for taking down an overgrown shrub, a portugese laurel for craps sake, on a property that had been let go for years and years. I was able to convince the rather short, fat little bylaw officer that his dbh was only achievable by squatting slightly on the low side of the trunk. That was uncalled for.

But it was nothing to get angry about.



RedlineIt
 
Since you put in 'any Government', I'm chiming in here...

We have zoning laws, so if your property has an open space or woodland reserve zoning, (the only higher is nature reserve) then you cannot cut anything (other than border maintenance) without submitting a woodland management plan with all your whys and wherefores and getting a permit.
This preserves green belts and higher value green spaces from indescriminate clearing.
TPO's a very few and far between, but a few do exist.
Anything else, residential 1,2, it's ok to cut without permission. I think we have a good balance, most residential work is unfettered by red tape, but the law is there where protection or a reasoned, planned approach is needed.
 
Can someone explain to me why a person who owns the land and everything on it should be forced to ask the Gov't (any Government) if they can have a tree removed? (snip)

Yeah, people are stupid, that's why. I'm not saying that governing bodies don't do tons of stupid things but, in general, tree removal laws are put together by folks who are knowledgeable and sympathetic to the survival of older, larger trees that can be truly magnificent specimens. Know-nothing John Q. Public has a tendency to just see a tree as an impediment to his view of, say, that body of water off there in the distance, which gives his house a "lake view" or something similar, and makes him feel better about himself. If you've been in the biz as long as some here, you've gotten requests to take down some great trees for stupid :censored: reasons! The laws help keep these trees alive, as they should. I know you can lay the Libertarian rap on me but I'm glad the tree laws exist.
 
Can someone explain to me why a person who owns the land and everything on it should be forced to ask the Gov't (any Government) if they can have a tree removed?

because the government loves power of any kind, and will take it in any way. they would love to control every thing you do on your property, controlling your trees is an easy start. whats most disappointing is the general public goes along with it, and it angers me as well. its nanny state, busy body to its fullest. frankly it doesn't matter if a homeowner is stupid and doesn't understand how important a tree is, ITS HIS TREE no one else owns that tree, no one else owns that view. he should be able to do whatever he wants with it. i cant help but think, what Thomas Jefferson or Paul Revere or john Adams, would have done if some government told them they needed a permit to cut down a tree. although one can make a pretty safe guess.
 
I agree with everything BLACKeR just wrote!!!! Except for the lack of capitol letters and correct punctuation.
 
I agree with everything BLACKeR just wrote!!!! Except for the lack of capitol letters and correct punctuation.

Hmmm----Are "capitol letters" the kind used on the central dome of those buildings found in state capitals? We have a nice state capitol, I believe the largest state capitol in the US, here in Austin, the capital of Texas. You should use capital letters for proper nouns, of course.
 
Sunrise Guy!!!!

Touche. I was trying to be facetious and it backfired.
 
Touche. I was trying to be facetious and it backfired.

Since you are new, we forgive you. You will find that many of us cannot spell or type. Luckily for you people I now have a running spellcheck program in my browser. People used to look at what I wrote and say "what an idiot" until they became able to decipher my phonetic usage (with Kenny it's phonetic and frenetic)

As for the gov'mint interference, it is usually a reaction to over-development. Here is Franklin, WI they have taken the view that the property owner is the caretaker of the land and does not have the right to do whatever they please. This is because the actions will effect the surrounding community. The easy example is where a developer comes in and clearcuts an old woodlot because it is easier to install B&B stock after everything is done.

Another example is when Mr. T bought a home in an upscale Chicogoland suburb and topped all the old trees on the property, I understand he was fined then lost in court.

One problem we have in Franklin is that these ordinances in the UDO are cobbled together, borrowed from other cities. They are specific to contractors and have no method for a small landowner to do any sustainable use practices. Green is good, so if you cut down an 8 inch buckthorn, it is as bad as an 8 inch white oak. That is being worked on though.

If you move into a wooded development, and the neighbor next door decides he wants to cut down all his big trees to put in grass, this may effect you property value. It does effect the urban forest and the micro climate/ecology.

It goes hand in hand with setbacks and limits on square-footage and sofas on the front porch.

Many people like to live where abandoned cars an block are considered lawn ornaments. If one is not in that type of community, the neighbors should be protected from these types of actions.

I for one would never live where I could not park in the driveway and keep my garagedoor open. I do not have any problem with land-usage controls on indiscriminate removal of large trees
 
if your concerned about what your neighbor is doing, then buy his property. we're only as free as our weakest link. a day is coming when you wont be able to smoke on your property or eat unhealthy foods, because someone will be offended by it. its completely foreign to me that someone shouldnt be able to do whatever they want to their property.
 
JPS..not everyone thought you were an idiot because of your spelling, cuz I thanks is bettu thun myne.
 
I can respect anyones decision to remove a tree for what ever reason however unjustified it may be. People are going to do what ever they want to do. I may try to persuade them otherwise, but when it comes down to it they are going to make the desiscion that they are going to make. Im just curious as to why this guy is trying to kill the tree before it is removed? Thats just sadistic. Im sure he had his reasons for poisoning that willow and they were perfectly rational in HIS own mind. However twisted it may be. Just one more red flag along with the others everyone has mentioned.

Kenn
 
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