what would YOU do?

[BobL]

Hey guys, just finished my 076. Built from one saw and several donors and a few nos parts. First time messing with these old beasts. I like the saw, it's built like a tank and is torquey as HELL. Oem piston in decent shape, crank was smooth and ok. New intake manifold, crank seals, handle and covers, oil pump driver, and a pile of misc. Pretty much used the best available parts I had and bought a few. Only thing I'm not crazy about is the fact that the intake and exhaust ports are on the same side of the cylinder. God, she's heavy... Running a 44" rollernose GB bar with 3/8" .063. Don't care for the rollernose much, it get's pretty warm. I enjoyed the build and love it when I get a chance to run one of the classics. I'll be throwing it up on Ebay probably sunday to finance my next project and pay my taxes *&%$#!!
She runs great and has a ton of new parts. Nothing is broken or stripped. I put up a video of my first two and only cuts I'll make with it, I cringe when I think about hitting nails or something with ALL THAT CHAIN. Like the site and look forward to my next project. Mike
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFz53uW6Fho

Nice job Mike - you might want to put some of your profit towards some quality PPE - a least some decent muffs. Older coots like me that have stuff all hearing left now really wish we wore muffs (and didn't sit directly in front of speaker stacks at rock concerts) when we were younger.

 

[mikeb1079]

stihl 076

thanks bobl for your thoughts on the 076. i'm really looking forward to trying it out. finished most of my jig at work on friday, should be able to finish er off this week. then, once my chain arrives from baileys i'm ready to roll. :hmm3grin2orange:

 

[BobL]

thanks bobl for your thoughts on the 076. i'm really looking forward to trying it out. finished most of my jig at work on friday, should be able to finish er off this week. then, once my chain arrives from baileys i'm ready to roll. :hmm3grin2orange:

I'm looking forward to it!

 

[mikeb1079]

milling jig

once i get it finished i'll have to post some pics. it'll give you guys a good laugh to see my metal fabrication abilities!

 

[nofish37]

Nice job Mike - you might want to put some of your profit towards some quality PPE - a least some decent muffs. Older coots like me that have stuff all hearing left now really wish we wore muffs (and didn't sit directly in front of speaker stacks at rock concerts) when we were younger.

What? Thanks Bill, I love putting these saws together and seeing them work again. Gotcha on the muffs, I know better. I cut firewood, and not that much. I'm not gonna pretend that I'm some tree guy, I just happen to be pretty mechanical and enjoy working on a quality built saw. Just curious on the chainsaw mills, How does it balance out with a bandmill? I know initial expense is considerably less and they're far more portable, but what are you guys spending on chain, fuel, saws, and time in comparison? I may keep one of my saws and buy a mill as I have access to some nice logs. I also have alot of amish in my area that run quite a few bandmills. Are the chainsaw mills something you would use in a remote location where there isn't much alternative, or do they really work that well? Thanks, Mike

 

[Brmorgan]

From an economic perspective, if you're interested in making a tidy profit with a CSM the only practical ways to do so are with either custom beams & timbers, or cutting VERY exotic and valuable lumber such as bird's-eye maple etc. or tropical hardwoods. It doesn't have much to do with the cost of running the CSM equipment so much as the fact that it's much more time consuming than bandmilling. Now, if you're more interested in saving some money by milling your own lumber, have a lot of time, or are working with large logs and lack equipment for moving them to a mill, then CSMing is the way to go. I milled probably $1000 worth of custom Fir beams last summer for myself for about $50 worth of fuel and a couple days of my time. Not a bad deal IMO.

 

[nofish37]

From an economic perspective, if you're interested in making a tidy profit with a CSM the only practical ways to do so are with either custom beams & timbers, or cutting VERY exotic and valuable lumber such as bird's-eye maple etc. or tropical hardwoods. It doesn't have much to do with the cost of running the CSM equipment so much as the fact that it's much more time consuming than bandmilling. Now, if you're more interested in saving some money by milling your own lumber, have a lot of time, or are working with large logs and lack equipment for moving them to a mill, then CSMing is the way to go. I milled probably $1000 worth of custom Fir beams last summer for myself for about $50 worth of fuel and a couple days of my time. Not a bad deal IMO.

Thanks for the info, Thanks! I think I probably will give it a go. I'll do my research and probably build my own as I do alot of fab work and prototyping. Unfortunately, time is one commodity I am running short of these days! I will need some beefy posts and beams in the near future as I am rapidly outgrowing my shop. I picked up enough 6" thick freezer panels to do a 100' building, but I'm gonna need some structure as I'd like to do a second story with a gambrel type roof with some dormers. So many projects, so little time... I'd also like to apologize to Bob for calling him Bill! I guess that's what you get for responding at three in the morning! I'll do more research before I ask any more questions, Thanks guys! Mike

 

[BobL]

What? Thanks Bill, I love putting these saws together and seeing them work again. Gotcha on the muffs, I know better. I cut firewood, and not that much. I'm not gonna pretend that I'm some tree guy, I just happen to be pretty mechanical and enjoy working on a quality built saw. Just curious on the chainsaw mills, How does it balance out with a bandmill? I know initial expense is considerably less and they're far more portable, but what are you guys spending on chain, fuel, saws, and time in comparison? I may keep one of my saws and buy a mill as I have access to some nice logs. I also have alot of amish in my area that run quite a few bandmills. Are the chainsaw mills something you would use in a remote location where there isn't much alternative, or do they really work that well? Thanks, Mike

No worries about Bill, I was called Jim as a kid for many years when a teacher came into a classroom and point at me and said "Jim, come with me"!

I general I agree with Brad about CS mill economics. CS milling for me is 50% fun, and the ability to access unusual timber that would otherwise end up as wood chip. The other 50% is the enjoyment of making mills and tools and stuff - I love making stuff from scraps and bits and pieces.

Like, recently I made this Macro Photography stand

I made everything (~50 individual pieces) even the lampshades (not the electrical components) mainly from bits of scrap ally and steel. The Vertical is made from a leftover piece of CS mill rail. The white base is made from a veneered chipboard cupboard door and the the knobs come from an old roof rack, both of which I picked up from the side of the road etc

I made it so I could takes pics like this

Full thread on super close ups of chain cutters here.

 

[nofish37]

Bob, HA! Nice work. Clean looking and can't argue with the results, That sucker works great! I like the fact that you use odds and ends and things that otherwise may end up in the junk. I get a little goofy sometimes, I had a canadian geese problem and shooting them just seemed to easy and wrong, So I built a remote control canadian goose on a scratch built aluminum hull with twin outboard motors, complete with glowing red eyes and a full auto .68 calibur paintball gun. I don't have a goose problem anymore This winter I may put some bottle rocket launchers on it. I've got to get some video of it and I'll put it up on youtube. I'd have ya over for a few beers, but that's one hell of a drive Thanks, mike

 

[Brmorgan]

Lovin' that macro stand, Bob. That's right up my alley as my other main hobby besides saws/woodworking is photography. I've been wanting one of those for a while but the commercial ones are pretty spendy if you want a decent setup.

Back early in the summer I got basically an entire darkroom setup for $10 at a yard sale. Everything was there except the chemicals - boxes of B/W developing paper, tons of clips, trays, sizing and cutting trays, exposure timer, redlight, you name it. The real steal was the Saunders/LPL Dichroic D6700 color enlarger. They still sell for over $800 at Adorama. This one isn't new but it seems to work just fine. I realize that the demand for film processing gear is almost nil at this point, so I don't even know if I can make much money on the stuff. But I couldn't pass it up for a measly $10.

I did take Photography back in high school, so I do know my way around basic darkroom and developing tasks though I can't see myself ever using those particular skills again. I guess I could go dig up the EOS 650 I got dirt-cheap on eBay & play with some B/W developing. Anyway I was thinking that I might be able to adapt the enlarger's stand and micro-adjustments to hold my camera for precision depth-of-field and macro work. It's a significantly bulkier affair than what you built, but it just might work. Also what camera are you using that you can control it from a computer? If you're doing Live Preview it must be one of the newer ones, 50D maybe?

If you're having a problem with vibration, have you tried using the Mirror Lockup function in addition to a remote shutter trigger? I would assume your camera has that option - I'm using an older 20D and it does. This locks the mirror in the upright position before the shot is taken, so the only vibration is that of the shutter itself which is pretty much impossible to negate, and I would dare say has almost immeasurable effect in today's cameras anyway.

 

[BobL]

. . . So I built a remote control canadian goose on a scratch built aluminum hull with twin outboard motors, complete with glowing red eyes and a full auto .68 calibur paintball gun. I don't have a goose problem anymore This winter I may put some bottle rocket launchers on it. I've got to get some video of it and I'll put it up on youtube. I'd have ya over for a few beers, but that's one hell of a drive Thanks, mike

Ha, I'd like to see that!

 

[BobL]

Lovin' that macro stand, Bob. That's right up my alley as my other main hobby besides saws/woodworking is photography. I've been wanting one of those for a while but the commercial ones are pretty spendy if you want a decent setup.

Cheers BM. We have a number of these macro stands at work but these and most of the commercial ones are too short and I can't use my 100 mm macro lens on larger objects and have to keep swapping out to other lenses.

Back early in the summer I got basically an entire darkroom setup for $10 at a yard sale.
.
.
.
I did take Photography back in high school, so I do know my way around basic darkroom and developing tasks though I can't see myself ever using those particular skills again. I guess I could go dig up the EOS 650 I got dirt-cheap on eBay & play with some B/W developing.

I started with B&W back in the early 70's and eventually taught photography for a few years at high school. I have still have hundreds of rolls of B&W negatives, I love the control you can exert when developing etc. Then I got into home developed colour slides - lots of these in boxes as well. Another thing I got into in the 1980s was panoramic photography which requires a lot of photos and just couldn't afford the development costs so things sat dormant for a while until the late 1990s when I got my first digi. Then all hell broke loose. Now I have portfolios of DVDs full of images. I keep a set at home and another at work.

Anyway I was thinking that I might be able to adapt the enlarger's stand and micro-adjustments to hold my camera for precision depth-of-field and macro work. It's a significantly bulkier affair than what you built, but it just might work.

That sounds like a real good idea.

Also what camera are you using that you can control it from a computer? If you're doing Live Preview it must be one of the newer ones, 50D maybe?

Yep that's it

If you're having a problem with vibration, have you tried using the Mirror Lockup function in addition to a remote shutter trigger? I would assume your camera has that option - I'm using an older 20D and it does. This locks the mirror in the upright position before the shot is taken, so the only vibration is that of the shutter itself which is pretty much impossible to negate, and I would dare say has almost immeasurable effect in today's cameras anyway.

Yep I've tried the mirror lock up and it didn't help much. One thing I changed today was the soft rubber feet on the frame to some hard plastic feet and this has helped a bit. BTW the camera I took the photo of the 50D was my 20D - it's still a very good camera.

 

[hazard]

I will keep this in mind. We sold our apple orchard 8yrs ago and I lost my tractor, trailer and somewhere to store logs. Kind of sucks for me. If I had any of the three I lost I would love to get ahold of some of those trunks. It would give me a real good reason to get a stihl 880. At the moment I have 3000-4000bf stacked. Most of the wood I get now is for bowl turning on the lathe.

Thanks
Chris

hey hazard, actually the reduction plant is open to the public (kind of). if you have a trailer or pickup truck, you can usually just drive in there and get one of the streets workers to load up stuff for you (they run a couple of end loaders to put all the trees into the giant chipper/shredder). lots of folks just pull in there and have them load up mulch for them, i'm sure they wouldn't care if you asked them to put a trunk piece into a trailer or something. after all, the mulch that they make is taken to drop off sites around town and is free to the public anyway. pm me if you need more info.

 

[mikeb1079]

finished my milling jig

sooo....finally got my jig finished. several of you guys helpfully suggested using something like unistrut or t track for the rails so that it would be adjustable for any size bar, but i didn't have any on hand so i went with the stock that was available at the shop (ie scrap). the main problem that i ran into with my neighbors jig (which i was using for my first couple of milling jobs) was that the allen head bolts were vibrating loose as the cut progressed. this was a huge problem because the cut depth would change as the bolts loosened and the jig would jam (and my boards were greatly uneven). i could've used some blue loctite, but i felt like over time i would be fighting this same situation again. thus, i decided to use the perforated stock with the predrilled holes and pins that you can just pop in or out. the advantage with these is that they ain't coming loose, and you can get a rough depth set quickly. i couldn't try it out as i'm waiting for a new sprocket for the 075 so that i can run 3/8 pitch chain. i'll let you know how it goes, but for now check out the mikeymill. just for fun i thought i'd try to match the "stihl orange" by painting the jig. check the photos here:

http://s774.photobucket.com/albums/yy26/mikeb1079/

let me know what'cha think.

 

[BobL]

let me know what'cha think.

OK you asked.

Firstly it looks like it's well made although I wouldn't mind being able to see some close ups of the bits and pieces.

Some problems I can see

1) Handles.
The only handle is poorly located. The location of your handle will have the operator bending over more than necessary. Also on narrow logs, operator will be placing their arm/hand across top of bar so potentially dangerous. Also handle needs good padding like a mountain bike handle bar grip, unless a $50 pair of gel padded gloves is used. CSMs can use multiple handles and one of the most useful is a handle that runs the full length of and 6" above the the mill railsh

2) Too much fixed welding of everything, eg Handle is welded in place, and mill is a fixed length. It's always better to build in adjustments from the beginning. Any one operator might only end up using a few adjustments but its better than having none at all.
they won't always want to be milling with their hands wide apart with their left hand always on the trigger. Then the operator can slip a cable tie over the trigger and move their left hand up to the wrap handle. This closes the operators arms and makes for a much more comfortable stance. But your wrap handle will have vibe transferred to it from the bar so it will be less comfortable than it could be. If you want to reduce vibe between the mill uprights add a strong bungee cord between the top of teh uprights.

4) The middle of the mill needs an adjustable cross piece to make it easier to start and end cuts otherwise you will get dips or wedged ends.

Despite what I said, all in all quite a good first attempt but there are a few improvements you can make if you want to.

 

[mikeb1079]

input

hey bob, thanks for the feedback. i didn't provide any close ups so you guys wouldn't see my welds! :biggrinbounce2: i'm half kidding, they're not pretty but they'll be safe. about the handle, i knew as soon as i welded it there (without the powerhead in place for reference) that it was too far away from the trigger (d'oh!). the bungee cord idea is good, i think i'll use that instead of my bent metal piece. i wanted something to help alleviate the weight of the powerhead hanging off the back end because without that it bows the bar up pretty well. the bungee, like you say, won't transmit nearly as much vibration.
i was going to put a cross piece the width of the frame so that you could grab it anywhere (and assist with the start and end of the cut). i think i'll do that, it won't take too much time to cut my upright handle out of there with a grinder.
as usual, there's alot of kinks to work out but that's half the fun!
oh, i forgot to mention that the whole assembly bar/chain/fuel/jig comes in just over fifty pounds. not light, but it'll do.

 

[Brmorgan]

OK you asked.

Firstly it looks like it's well made although I wouldn't mind being able to see some close ups of the bits and pieces.

Some problems I can see

1) Handles.
The only handle is poorly located. The location of your handle will have the operator bending over more than necessary. Also on narrow logs, operator will be placing their arm/hand across top of bar so potentially dangerous. Also handle needs good padding like a mountain bike handle bar grip, unless a $50 pair of gel padded gloves is used. CSMs can use multiple handles and one of the most useful is a handle that runs the full length of and 6" above the the mill railsh

2) Too much fixed welding of everything, eg Handle is welded in place, and mill is a fixed length. It's always better to build in adjustments from the beginning. Any one operator might only end up using a few adjustments but its better than having none at all.
they won't always want to be milling with their hands wide apart with their left hand always on the trigger. Then the operator can slip a cable tie over the trigger and move their left hand up to the wrap handle. This closes the operators arms and makes for a much more comfortable stance. But your wrap handle will have vibe transferred to it from the bar so it will be less comfortable than it could be. If you want to reduce vibe between the mill uprights add a strong bungee cord between the top of teh uprights.

4) The middle of the mill needs an adjustable cross piece to make it easier to start and end cuts otherwise you will get dips or wedged ends.

Despite what I said, all in all quite a good first attempt but there are a few improvements you can make if you want to.

What happened to #3?:monkey:

All in all good points though. The only thing I think I'd add is that while using the perforated squaretube for posts does provide for very quick and repeatably accurate depth adjustment, I can almost guarantee that you'll quickly find yourself wanting to be able to make fine adjustments to the depth. For instance, just switching from low-profile chain to, say, 3/8" .063 full chisel, will change the kerf width by 1/16" or more and throw off the depth of cut accordingly. Granted this may or may not be a big concern to you depending on what you're planning on doing with your milled lumber.

I did notice one other thing - in the seventh picture, it appears that the bar clamps on the drive end of the bar don't have a tapered end like those on an Alaskan. If that is indeed the case, you'll probably end up finding that those flat ends will want to gouge and hang up on bark etc. as the mill travels down the log. At the least I would recommend tapering the ends out a bit; and in general as far as the drive-end bar clamps go, longer is better since they will ride over irregularities easier. Bob will probably recommend a roller wheel or two be installed to guide along the contours of the log, and to be honest I probably would too, but I haven't tried it yet myself.

 

[Ted J]

What happened to #3?:monkey:

.......

Brad, shhhhhhhhh... Bob's in Australia, they don't have a #3 down there....LOL
Actually we should be surprised he knew there was a number 4!

Ted

 

[Ted J]

I have one question though. Is the saw mounted correctly? Should it be flipped 180 degrees around, putting the handle closer to where you would be standing? (I guess if you were right handed, the trigger with your left hand and the handle in the right hand.)

Also, does your chainsaw have a trigger lock?

Ted

 

[BobL]

I did notice one other thing - in the seventh picture, it appears that the bar clamps on the drive end of the bar don't have a tapered end like those on an Alaskan. If that is indeed the case, you'll probably end up finding that those flat ends will want to gouge and hang up on bark etc. as the mill travels down the log.

Doh ! - that was my number #3 :monkey:

Was doing a bit of AS browsing at work and started answering mikes post, had all 4 points in my head and some dude came in and distracted me - Fancy that - work interrupting my AS activities :jawdrop:

At the least I would recommend tapering the ends out a bit; and in general as far as the drive-end bar clamps go, longer is better since they will ride over irregularities easier. Bob will probably recommend a roller wheel or two be installed to guide along the contours of the log, and to be honest I probably would too, but I haven't tried it yet myself.

Yeah , get a skid, or a wheel of something onto that.