When is it appropriate to NOT use a felling notch?

[TDunk]

Maybe pics. would help me understand your procedure a little bit better, but having no notch makes the tree about impossible to control. Not to mention barber chairing. The only time i don't use a notch is up in the tree (snap cut) and that's if there's a big DZ.

 

[Hddnis]

Even a small face cut will give you better control and let you drop them safely.

Glad that it has been working out for you so far. With that much pulling power you can get away with more.



Mr. HE

 

[Blakesmaster]

Like Tdunk said. Barberchair is bad.

 

[rmihalek]

On a tree with a heavy lean, you can try the Coos Bay cut. Basically, you make two cuts, one on either side of the stem, parallel to the direction of the lean. You fell the tree by then sawing in from the back towards to intended direction of falling. I'm sure there's a diagram somewhere here on AS or elsewhere on the 'net.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Jerry B gives a good description on the gypo climber board

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...window=1&q=Coos+Bay+tree+method&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

 

[magnus]

photos

Wow, thanks for the great feedback. I had a chance to get online a day early this week, so here I am....with photos and a diagram. Tomorrow i walk to the city and will use the library to check online.

I bought my MS180 2 years ago, that was the first time I ever used a chainsaw in my life. Not opposed to sawing, just never had a need. Anway the manual came in Portuguese, since i live on a portuguese island...and i do not speak portuguese...so i figured out how to work it myself and proceeded to cut an acre of jungle. mainly incenso and acatia trees spread over a 45 degree mountainside. at the time there was not internet so i could not get online to get an english manual or ask questions.
i made a lot of mistakes, but now i KNOW why i do NOT do certain things, that I now have read about. Now I bought a MS660 for the larger euks, although i did drop a 130 cm tree with my 35 bar. landed in my bathroom when the winch snapped! Anyway, on to the problem at hand.

There were a lot of posts, so let me try to make sense of some of the common ideas.

basically, ALWAYS use a notch.

also the tree has a diameter of 75 cm.

the "pro" i hired to fell the two trees that landed in our garden was recommended to me, so i did not check his credentials well. my mistake. on an island of 4000 there are few pros at anything other than fishing and dairy.

you need photos to make sense of what i am talking about...so here they are.

first, the last euk i cut using "my method". the trunk is uphill of the stump against the natural lean and weight, nearly identical to present problem tree.

now the problem tree.

or all the photos are on photobucket here
http://s628.photobucket.com/albums/uu3/magnusflores/

thanks allot for the input, i need help.
trust me, if there were a pro to hire here i would!
not proud, just can´t find good help these days.

 

[Toddppm]

I don't remember what you said your winch is attached to but I get the feeling it's going to end up at the bottom of that hill with one of those trees.

 

[SINGLE-JACK]

On a tree with a heavy lean, you can try the Coos Bay cut. Basically, you make two cuts, one on either side of the stem, parallel to the direction of the lean. You fell the tree by then sawing in from the back towards to intended direction of falling. I'm sure there's a diagram somewhere here on AS or elsewhere on the 'net.

Isn't this the same situation that magnus has described in his thread in the Arborist 101 Forum:
http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=110665

If so, a 'Coos Bay cut' would put the trees exactly where magnus does NOT want them.

A Coos Bay cut works for dropping a lot of trees in a hurry in the direction of lean (usually down hill). It is illegal in many areas because there is minimal (or no) control of the direction fall. This a very risky recommendation!

 

[Blakesmaster]

Wow. I'd find a climber.

 

[SINGLE-JACK]

Wow. I'd find a climber.

:agree2:

Magnus, please don't climb those trees!!!

 

[Bermie]

Hey Magnus..we get the 'pro's' from St. Miguel that come to Bermuda...they come out as farmers...next thing they got a chainsaw and are tree pro's!!

You NEED a face cut...do more research...here and go on the chainsaw forum and do a seach on leaning trees.

I understand your predicament, it's you or Tony Joe and Frank, some rope and a ladder...Keep Researching!

BTW the Azores are simply beautiful...been to Horta in Fial...yes, on a sailboat, our painting is on the seawall somewhere!

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I've done a little reading on the Coos Bay cut, and it seems to me that it's sole purpose is to get a leaner down fast, before it will barberschair. As Jerry B. puts it you "cut like heck on the back cut and it tears and rips to scare the stuffing out of you"

If you want to directional fall, then you need a hinge and scarf.

 

[SINGLE-JACK]

I've done a little reading on the Coos Bay cut, and it seems to me that it's sole purpose is to get a leaner down fast, before it will barberschair. As Jerry B. puts it you "cut like heck on the back cut and it tears and rips to scare the stuffing out of you"
If you want to directional fall, then you need a hinge and scarf.

:agree2:
If the Coos Bay cut scares the stuffing out of Jerry B., it's got to be a BAD IDEA for us mere mortals - especially a newby.

That being said, it is a fast way to clear an old orchard of small apple trees. But, they are little more than shrubs anyway. Again IMHO, cutting shrubbery is the only time when it is appropriate to NOT use a felling notch.

Now back to Magnus' serious problem - dangerous trees (NOT SHRUBBERY) that have to come down - no reliable removal services available - no experience with this kind of takedown. It would be horrible to read about it on the injury forum.

He's come here for help! Someone's got to have some hard useable SAFE solution to his dilemma without ruining his property or himself - without flying over there to help him ... RIGHT?

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I've never cut euc, but I've heard that strapping the stems help guard against barberschair.

 

[AshTree]

Solution Humbolt...

Humbolt is the way to go on a down hill cliff, any logger can tell you that. Mostly since it holds on the longest with the hinge... Look up the notch online. Just remember that you should be hiring a pro or at least take a cutter course... Wear chaps and remember to exit 45 degrees away from the direction of fall and be sure to clear that path first... With a lean you are going to need to know how to bore cut... But that is a bit out of your league... and way to dangerous until you understand kickback.

This is really a question for another forum so I will add something in for the vets... you can let a branch or even a peg peel.... It just need to be good wood for that Acer Negundo (Box Elder, Manitoba Maple) is mostly what I mean here. Today we had to take down 11 leaning trees and this is how I took one of the pegs down... On top of a 35 ft spar, I threw a monkey fist through a good union in another tree about 6 ft behind me, flicked it down until in hit the ground and used the oppisite end to support the spar, then I sailed down and set up a running bow on my off where I was tied in... 35ft of spar was 'bended' down and sat nicely on the new lawn (which we were told on the WO not to damage... within 3ft of the shed and 3 ft of a emerald cedar (brand new).

Notches are good in most cases but not all...

My opinion of coarse

Ashley
www.falunhr.org

 

[BC WetCoast]

Several sticks of dynamite wrapped around the stem. Light the fuse and run.

Definately the safest way for a inexperienced cutter to remove a dangerous tree where there are no obstacles. There is probably a blaster on the island.

 

[asetree]

Several sticks of dynamite wrapped around the stem. Light the fuse and run.

Definately the safest way for a inexperienced cutter to remove a dangerous tree where there are no obstacles. There is probably a blaster on the island.

By this rationale you could also try setting the trees on fire.
A

 

[AshTree]

Felling a peg on fire...

this reminds me of a Facebook video, forestry worker cutting down a fire on fire...

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=178403222795

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Humbolt is the way to go on a down hill cliff, any logger can tell you that.

An open face would be even better then humbolt. 45* scarf up or down will have the same closing time.

 

[magnus]

I don't remember what you said your winch is attached to but I get the feeling it's going to end up at the bottom of that hill with one of those trees.

each winch is attached to a standing live tree, about 40 cm diameter, usually crypto or acacia.

if i must use a stump, i go for the 80 cm ones.

is this safe?