When you see a climber fall .....

[MasterBlaster]

What do you do?

I'm not talking about first aid, dial 911, none of that.

If you are close enough to make contact with him before impact, what have you been trained/told to do?

 

[TREETX]

Originally posted by MasterBlaster

If you are close enough to make contact with him before impact, what have you been trained/told to do?

Close enough to make contact

You mean like give them a high five while they plummet to their death vs catch them????

Before I say anything else smart ass, could you paint a better pic of this hypothetical?

 

[MasterBlaster]

Ooooooh kay

Your standing 10 maybe 15 feet away.

Your bored, so your watching the climber ascend.

For whatever reason, the climbers methods fail him.

He is now plummeting to the ground.



What have you been trained/told to do?
I know what I would do. I'm interested in any information anyone else has come across.
Maybe someone trained in mountain climbing, search & rescue, etc.

High fiving them on the way down probably won't slow their descent.

Hint- key words; slow their descent

 

[TREETX]

Their climbing hitch wouldn't stop them

That or if it is a footlock, their prussik or klemheist?

Do you mean if that fails?? Ok, I'll bite - I would suck it up, take the rope burn and latch onto their line.

Fairy tale time: On my first day of work in Germany in '99, I was using rope and biner method with a Blakes to deadwood a large Beech (Buche) in Dachau, and forgot to dress my hitch after repositioning. Yep plummeting towards earth. Snatched the line - OUCH!!! People learn from getting hurt. I learned that day.

Still don't get yer situation.................

 

[MasterBlaster]

Originally posted by TREETX
Ok, I'll bite - I would suck it up, take the rope burn and latch onto their line.

Good answer, I would try to to the same. However, an untethered climber in free fall was the scenerio I was trying to get across.

I can't remember who told me this, or what level of expertise they were speaking from, it was a long time ago.
ANYTHING you can do to deflect the vertical descent will slow the impact. Specifically, you are supposed to hit them like a linebacker before they hit the ground. This will probably cause injury to both parties, but it is better than the climber falling straight down.

I can see this only working on a relatively short fall. Anything REALLY high would likely render this action ineffective. I also imagine the timing would be tricky, too.

Any-hoo, I was thinking about this and wanted some feedback from you all. I'm curious what the official stance on this might be.

Anyone know?

 

[Lumberjack]

What he is saying is a climber was climbing a tree. You were watching. The climber manages to cut the rope and the lanyard with his chainsaw (remember TITS). So you are standing there, and you see climber comming down at a pretty good clip. You shout up, "Are there Bees?!?" and his reply is,"Hell no, I am fall.."
What Butch wants to know is what would you do to help keep him from fitting in his helment when he hits the ground.


I say it would depend on the height:
If it was under say 20ish feet and he was falling foot first, nothing probably. If he was falling headfirst, get in front or behind him depending if he is falling like this / or \ and try to catch him under his arms, so his feet kick down and his head stays up for a lillt bit.

If he were under say 40 ft. The critical heigth, I would get under him, catch his head like in the first one and then fallback/crumple with him.

If it were over 40' it would be a judgment call, because they would be moving at a pretty good clip. I would have to decide if I really liked the guy, had he ever pissed me off on purpose, what he would do for me, if he by chance has me written in his will..., ect. You may say that I wouldn't have time, but think about how high he was, you would have a few seconds to consider his worth to you :angel: :angel:

Or I would get under them like before, and jump up a little to reduce the force in his body, and crumple again with him, trying to keep his head up.

IMO

Carl

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

I would quick go to Walmart and buy the biggest trampoline that they sell, use the express checkout, quick drive back and set it up, then yell to him as he falls to land on his feet.
That's just what I'd do, I don't know if it's right.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Carl, I imagine any attempt to 'catch' him would be futile. Placing yourself under him would probably help him due to the fact your body getting crushed would slow the fall somewhat.

So far the 'linebacker hit' seems like the better idea. The timing would be a bee-otch, though.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Originally posted by Mike Maas
I would quick go to Walmart and buy the biggest trampoline that they sell

Sounds good, but wouldn't the trampoline launch him skyward again?

 

[Lumberjack]

I wasn't talking about catching him, only keeping his head up so his feet hit first, and then his upper body comes down on top of yours, cushioning his head. If you caught him under the armpits with your arms bent like you are finishing a curl, you should be able to protect his head. In my show choir, I do advanced lifts with some of the Cheerleaders, so my experiance isn't as high as what you are talking about.

Does anyone have a Worst Case Senario Book. I had one, but I loaned it to a friend to read, and he thought it was a gift. It may have something in it.

Carl

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

That is pretty good Mike, quickest way to get that lazy dawg back up to work too, not even time to cathch his breath!!

Guess my reaction time is a lil'slower; might just have time to pray!

i've been compressed by a few other's falls (it's one of my excusses ); 10-15' might be okay to catch; closer to 40 increases body count IMLHO.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

...an untethered climber in free
fall was the scenerio I was trying to get across.

Here you go again, trolling. I'm hungry and its early so I'll bight. When have you experienced this scenario?

Volunteering for the Darwin Award most likely!

Do the math, you would have to be standing within an arm's length to stop a fall.

You're looking for an "official" response. From what officiating organization.

A hand belay won'
t generate enought friction to stop a falling climber even when the rope burns through the flesh and the rope drags on the bones. By that time there will be so much blood that the rope will be more slippery.

If a belay is ever needed, grab the rope and roll it around your body and hit the deck. Another option would be to grab the rope and dive around the tree in the "Take Three Wraps" style of adding friction.

ANSI Z133-2000
9.1.2 Arborists shall be tied in or secured while ascending the tree and remain tied in or secured until the work is comp-leted and they have returned to the ground.

What part of that isn't clear?

 

[SilverBlue]

Walmart has trampolines? ???? they have everything! have to go there one day.Personally I would be barking up the tree pre fall to prevent it from happening. Too slo to react to catch a faller and would have to find a place to put down Big Mac safely first usually followed by a verbal D'OH!

 

[MasterBlaster]

Hey there Tom, good morning to 'ya. I guess any inquiry that doesn't fit your criteria of a 'proper post' gets placed in the catagory of a troll. Hmmmm....

Its nice to see you've got all your ANSI regs/numbers. I'm truly impressed. Really. Thats amazing.

I axed an innocent question with all sincerity. The 'official answer' from the 'official organization' is what I was hoping to find. I don't know what organization that would be.

Thanks for your imput. I shall file it under 'antagonistic responses'.

 

[kf_tree]

as far as trying to catch him thats tough.........the first rule in a rescue situation is DO NOT become a second victum(sp). if you got injured of knocked out trying to catch him who would call 911 or drive him to the hospital? in your senario i say let him fall and then try and put the piece's back together once he's on the ground.

doh..........thats gonna leave a mark

 

[Tom Dunlap]

When the investigating organization, probably OSHA, comes around to look at the cause of death from free climbing they are going to be looking at the Z133 standard first.

There are two goals in my professional life. The first is to do whatever I can to see that tree climbers live to be old and healthy. The second is to do whatever I can to see that trees live to be old and healthy. I've antagonised people in the past, so what. I'd rather antagonise than hear about another climber getting hurt or lucky.

MB, have you read the Z? Even if you choose not to follow the safety standards, they will be the measure of compliance. It's about as close to the "official organization" as you're going to get.

There is a small window in the Z for allowing free climbing. Even if free climbing was allowed, why risk a fall? I met a guy at one of the EHAP trainings who fell a few weeks later. Hit his neck on a rock and is now a quadroplegic. With a wife and kids. FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE!!!

Tom

 

[Stumper]

MB, The whole format of your question-asking what we would do while not divulging your plan- fits "trolling" criteria perfectly. Tom did take the trouble to contribute to the thread so I don't think he was very antagonistic. Hypotheticals are very useful -they can help us to plan our responses so that we are able to react quickly in an emergency and do the wrong thing. . -That is both a serious and a jesting statement. Thinking through critical situations does have value but it also poses a serious risk since the emergency we encounter will probably differ from the one we imagined.
What would I do about the climber in freefall? I can only tell you about the one time that such a situation happened with me present.. I stayed where I was and maintained control of the lowering line with the 800 lb. piece of Cotttonwood limb hanging over his head. Then I tied off the rope, went to the climber, spoke to him, sent someone to call 911, shut off the still idling chainsaw and looked for the climbers glasses while telling him not to try to move-help is on the way.. No, it was not any fun. Yes, I'm glad I did things exactly as I did.

 

[ORclimber]

I don't think anyone on the ground would have time to react, before they hit the ground. If I did have time to react I'd treat them like a widowmaker and get out of the way. Then hopefully act as calmly as Stumper did.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Not becoming the 2nd victim is quite right indeed. I am thinking the linebacker approach would be appropriate for only the shortest of falls.

I am reminded of a story involving two electrical workers on a platform. One became energized. The only way his buddy could see to save him was to linebacker hit him. He knew he was gonna get zapped but to his way of thinking it was the only option at the moment. The impact broke the contact but the momentum sent them both over the side, injuring them both. But the guy didn't fry.

This makes me think of the palm tree suffocation thread. The worst case rescue scenerio would be to fell the thing ASAP. Kinda like trying to linebacker block yur buddy falling from 40 feet.

The lesser of two evils kind of thing?

 

[MasterBlaster]

Luv that avatar, OR!