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Erik, I'd put together a reply but decided against posting it about a minute before yours. Oh well, here's about what it said:<blockquote>I think the first time I used a saw in a tree in any meaningful way I was about 80' up a shagbark hickory.
What do you think the major difference is between being 20' up or 100', except that the branches are usually smaller?</blockquote>Heights have not bothered me too much either, but I am painfully more aware of my mortality now than when I was 16.
Glen
What do you think the major difference is between being 20' up or 100', except that the branches are usually smaller?</blockquote>Heights have not bothered me too much either, but I am painfully more aware of my mortality now than when I was 16.
Glen
but I am painfully more aware of my mortality now than when I was 16.
Glen [/B][/QUOTE]
me too,my first climbing gig was getting out of a 60' knuckle boom, doing line clearance with zero overhang policy,wasnt too bad (luckily it was 4x4 mercedes carrier) .line clearing in rural areas can be a good starting point IMO.its the good with the bad tree wise (cypress hedges
Glen [/B][/QUOTE]
me too,my first climbing gig was getting out of a 60' knuckle boom, doing line clearance with zero overhang policy,wasnt too bad (luckily it was 4x4 mercedes carrier) .line clearing in rural areas can be a good starting point IMO.its the good with the bad tree wise (cypress hedges
Nathan Wreyford
ArboristSite Operative
At 16, you should be doing tree work and learning. The only part of tree work you should be doing is dragging brush and having someone else buck it up for you and feed it into the chipper.
The brush still needs to be moved and the lawn needs to be raked.
Do that for a while working under a more accomplished climber and then you won't be so inclined to ask
newbie questions.
At 16 you can't legally run a chainsaw commercially.
Word!
BTW - 'taint nothing personal. I have worked with a climber who had great potential at 16. I would never be part of such a crew again.
The brush still needs to be moved and the lawn needs to be raked.
Do that for a while working under a more accomplished climber and then you won't be so inclined to ask
newbie questions.At 16 you can't legally run a chainsaw commercially.
Word!
BTW - 'taint nothing personal. I have worked with a climber who had great potential at 16. I would never be part of such a crew again.
MasterBlaster
TreeHouse Elder
There ain't no hurry, Chad. It'll come, in time. Just act like a sponge for awhile...
Low and slow, as we like to say.
Low and slow, as we like to say.
Guy Meilleur
Addicted to ArboristSite
Erik and I have so much in common
--that sounds exactly how I got started--being young and dumb and sent up a pine to set a rope. I was in FL but the story's the same.Nowadays the story's much different; many ways to learn how to climb right. Learning wrong is dumb and costly in many ways. Confidence gained low in the tree may help you get higher, though some never feel comfy way high.
Minors are legally ineligible for a lot of things. I don't know if it's a legal function to prohibit minors from professionally operating dangerous equipment or whether it's merely insurance company policy. In any event, you'd do very well to ask your insurance provider if you're covered for such tasks. If you're not and you continue to do so, don't be surprised if the insurance company drops you.
There's always school...
Good luck.
Glen
There's always school...
Good luck.
Glen
Guy Meilleur
Addicted to ArboristSite
It is, called Child Labor Laws, which were designed to prevent child abuse. I was working before I was 16, in addition to going to school. School's the first priority, unless you want to be stuck in the back of the bus all your life.
Re heights, some people just don't have the balance to tolerate going above a certain level. I think it's an inner ear thing. Lots to do on or near the ground, if that's the place you were born to be.
MasterBlaster
TreeHouse Elder
It all depends on the 16 yr. old.
Stumper
One Man Band
I 've always been uncomfortable with heights. I don't remember how high I went at what point. It was always a matter of going as high as needed. The area where I did most of my early climbing had few tall trees so I did a LOT of 30-35 foot work-- but there were a few taller trees and I did them too.:angel:
arboromega
ArboristSite Operative
i never broke 100' till i moved back home to va. i started climbibg in sc on the coast and mostly worked pruning in wider trees like magnolias and live oak.
my first high climb was a bit nerve racking but i already knew to trust myself and my equipment.
fla16 if you started tree work at 14 you should have a bad back way before your time like the rest of us. 100' will kill you just as fast as 20', or less for that matter. its all about respect for the work, not about the height.
my first high climb was a bit nerve racking but i already knew to trust myself and my equipment.
fla16 if you started tree work at 14 you should have a bad back way before your time like the rest of us. 100' will kill you just as fast as 20', or less for that matter. its all about respect for the work, not about the height.
MasterBlaster
TreeHouse Elder
My 'bad back' went away when I stopped doing treework outta buckets.
But, I did sweat a 'lil more!
But, I did sweat a 'lil more!
MasterBlaster
TreeHouse Elder
Well, there ya go! 
arboromega
ArboristSite Operative
im opposite, a few hours on spikes just kills my lower back. could be my cheap ass boots. bucket time is typicaly gravey with no lumps.
It's a little fuzzy now, but I'd graduated high school a bit early and had just turned 17. At my first full-time job my duties were periodically further curtailed, I believe, as a result of conversations between the employer and their insurance company. It started with not being able to leave the state with the service truck (I think that was because I was under 21) and ended with not being able to operate the forklift. I was a good and valued employee otherwise, if anyone's thinking that was a factor...
Glen
Matt Follett
ArboristSite Operative
Mr. 16
100' may be okay in your first year/week/day whatever... as mentioned it's not the height that counts, anything over 10 feet is dangerous.
I remember my "first", a norway maple, that to this day it isn't 40'... scared me you know what, at about 20'... stupidity, a little coaxing from a colleague, and I managed to live through the first few years of 'on the job training'... then I went BACK TO SCHOOL (post secondary) spent more time in the trees, learned the SAFE way to climb, and the faster ways to climb. Today I won't expect a new climber to be proficent, really solid, until at least three seasons in the trees... and even then a climber will still have alot to learn on just the basics.
Don't rush, don't panic about being fast, if you've had some training from work... take it slow and only do what's comfortable... then if you really think you like this gig... GO BACK TO SCHOOL! your too young to waste the oppertunity to learn lots while people are expecting you to. If you wait till later, it will only get harder to get back in the game. Look for Horticultural or arboricultural programs in you area, even if they are only 1-2 year community college courses, at least it will give you a grounding and a resume, other then "I'm still alive at 20"
My 2 canadian cents (almost 2 US cents these days!)
100' may be okay in your first year/week/day whatever... as mentioned it's not the height that counts, anything over 10 feet is dangerous.
I remember my "first", a norway maple, that to this day it isn't 40'... scared me you know what, at about 20'... stupidity, a little coaxing from a colleague, and I managed to live through the first few years of 'on the job training'... then I went BACK TO SCHOOL (post secondary) spent more time in the trees, learned the SAFE way to climb, and the faster ways to climb. Today I won't expect a new climber to be proficent, really solid, until at least three seasons in the trees... and even then a climber will still have alot to learn on just the basics.
Don't rush, don't panic about being fast, if you've had some training from work... take it slow and only do what's comfortable... then if you really think you like this gig... GO BACK TO SCHOOL! your too young to waste the oppertunity to learn lots while people are expecting you to. If you wait till later, it will only get harder to get back in the game. Look for Horticultural or arboricultural programs in you area, even if they are only 1-2 year community college courses, at least it will give you a grounding and a resume, other then "I'm still alive at 20"
My 2 canadian cents (almost 2 US cents these days!)
xander9727
The Silverback
If you're comfortable in a tree there should be no difference between 10 feet and 200 feet. What I need to define is what makes one comfortable. It's not the lack of a fear for heights, it's not the testosterone charged egomania, it's education. If you know what equipment works, what techniques work and how to perform the task you'll be comfortable. To get to this point takes two things, knowledge and experience. If you are unwilling to complete something as basic as High School how can you be expected to complete your schooling in Arboriculture? Completing being the key work. A lot of people in our industry get just enough knowledge to get by. Sort of like quiting school in the 9th grade. You have the basics to survive but lack the skills to succede. Hacks can climb a tree, cut a tree down, remove parts of trees, etc. However, they do all of these task in a mediocre to poor fashion. Do they want to be substandard? Some may be apathetic, but many are just ignorant. They have enough skills to get by but not enough to get ahead. How much knowledge you acquire is totally up to you. Many people are given the best educations but learn nothing.
There is no short cut for experience. Doing a similar job over and over will help you to predict outcomes and recognize hazards before they happen. The funny thing with experience is that it is of little consequence without knowledge. If you don't have the tools to interpret your actions it is difficult to learn something from them. Another problem with experience without knowledge is the chance that your learning opportunity will end badly, even fatally. Arboriculture is reportedly the most dangerous job in America. If you are going to do the most dangerous job without the necessary knowlege (i.e. tools) you have an excellent chance of becoming a statistic. No one is impressed by the "Hey ya'll watch this" mentality. Most people are impressed by someone performing a nearly impossible task with effortless precision. Only you can choose whether you want to roll the dice or set the standard.
There is no short cut for experience. Doing a similar job over and over will help you to predict outcomes and recognize hazards before they happen. The funny thing with experience is that it is of little consequence without knowledge. If you don't have the tools to interpret your actions it is difficult to learn something from them. Another problem with experience without knowledge is the chance that your learning opportunity will end badly, even fatally. Arboriculture is reportedly the most dangerous job in America. If you are going to do the most dangerous job without the necessary knowlege (i.e. tools) you have an excellent chance of becoming a statistic. No one is impressed by the "Hey ya'll watch this" mentality. Most people are impressed by someone performing a nearly impossible task with effortless precision. Only you can choose whether you want to roll the dice or set the standard.
arboromega
ArboristSite Operative
hey 16,
did you leave scool to climb trees?!? that is what some of these posts are saying. if you did quit school for trees then print out what xander just wrote and keep it in your pocket so you can remind yourself everyday about how you made the wrong choice. stay in school man. a good friend of mine quit high school and became a great carpenter, but when the promotion opportunities came along, guess who got passed up. my friend got to the point where going back for the ged wasnt a choice, but a necessity for professional advancement.
if you didnt quit school then forget my spiel here, but what xander, and everyone else wrote remains solid advice for you.
did you leave scool to climb trees?!? that is what some of these posts are saying. if you did quit school for trees then print out what xander just wrote and keep it in your pocket so you can remind yourself everyday about how you made the wrong choice. stay in school man. a good friend of mine quit high school and became a great carpenter, but when the promotion opportunities came along, guess who got passed up. my friend got to the point where going back for the ged wasnt a choice, but a necessity for professional advancement.
if you didnt quit school then forget my spiel here, but what xander, and everyone else wrote remains solid advice for you.
Florida16
ArboristSite Operative
I meant to show this to all the people that tell me to go back to school, but just for some encite, nvm read this :
http://www.isa-arbor.com/careersInArboriculture/resources/commercl/Climber.pdf
I red in there somewhere that to be a CA in Commercial Climbing that you don't need a highschool diploma...
Also I believe I'm way better with a saw in my hand than I EVER was in school...
http://www.isa-arbor.com/careersInArboriculture/resources/commercl/Climber.pdf
I red in there somewhere that to be a CA in Commercial Climbing that you don't need a highschool diploma...
Also I believe I'm way better with a saw in my hand than I EVER was in school...
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