Which is better?

[pistol pete]

I am just getting my business up to speed and starting to seriously look at more efficient ways of getting brush removed. Typically we spend 80% of every job cleaning up and removing debris from the property. My wife helps me when she can and I use my two brothers for big jobs and removals. I am looking at bringing on a full time guy and trying to get equipment as I can afford it.

Currently we hand load brush and logs onto a low boy and pull it off with chains at the dump. I am wondering what is more efficient and cost effective, a chipper and arbortech truck or a track loader and 20 ft dump bed? It seems to me that track loading would be much faster and require less men (or wives ).

Thank You.

 

[kennertree]

For me a truck and chipper works best. The reason is I can get rid of chips for free. If I have logs and brush I would have to pay to dump. You can't always get a skid steer in yards. Brush has alot of volume and will fill up a dump trailer fast.

 

[pistol pete]

In my area the city will take brush for free with proof of residence.

 

[ropensaddle]

A grapple truck is a good method of disposing of brush and logs!
I have got mine into most places but a small skid loader for
the jobs you can't get in would be nice too.

 

[ASD]

In my area the city will take brush for free with proof of residence.

ya but if you start to show up 5 days a week with a bis truck you will probably have to pay

 

[ropensaddle]

ya but if you start to show up 5 days a week with a bis truck you will probably have to pay

Yeah they used to let us dump free at the tub grinder but they
got too much to keep ground and stopped us. I rolled in with
a full load on the grapple and they nicely told me last load!
They may be open now and may not but lucky I have forty
acres with a gully to fill in huh!

 

[D Mc]

Pete, which is better will be dependent on the type of jobs you do; i.e., land clearing with lots of roots and dirt are made for loaders. Clean wood and brush - chainsaws and chippers.

There is a reason that chippers are one of the primary tools in the tree industry. If you haven't used one, you will be amazed at how less frequently you need to dump your loads. You will be able to finish off three or four jobs with no dump runs in between (depending on the size of the jobs) and most tree operations have also figured out that turning trash from a tree job into wood chips and firewood gives you a lot more options. (Also alot more ecologically friendly.)

Dave

 

[S Mc]

Pete, which is better will be dependent on the type of jobs you do; i.e., land clearing with lots of roots and dirt are made for loaders. Clean wood and brush - chainsaws and chippers.

There is a reason that chippers are one of the primary tools in the tree industry. If you haven't used one, you will be amazed at how less frequently you need to dump your loads. You will be able to finish off three or four jobs with no dump runs in between (depending on the size of the jobs) and most tree operations have also figured out that turning trash from a tree job into wood chips and firewood gives you a lot more options. (Also alot more ecologically friendly.)

Dave

+1 (I have been waiting for the opportunity to do that!)

We are highly into the reusing of resources wherever possible so we reuse chips and utilize firewood.

With that said, I realize in just getting started in the business your decisions will be based also on what is available to you for a price you can afford. We started out with a stock truck and hand loaded the brush, stomped it down or cut it up and took it to a neighbor's burn pile.

From the "wife/ground crew" perspective...when we bought our first chipper I couldn't believe how much easier my job got!!! We have a steady list of people who want the chips so we are 1) no longer polluting the air with smoke (which in our area is becoming more and more of an issue) and 2) putting nutrients back in the soil with a reusable resource.

So, if you are doing "tree care work" not just "land clearing", I would highly suggest the truck/chipper combo. Just remember, you do not need to get the biggest on the market when you are just starting out. Small businesses just starting out...number one killer is overhead. So watch that.

Sylvia

 

[Dadatwins]

This question comes up frequently and the answer depends on where you are dumping and if you plan on selling the firewood. Firewood sellers need a chipper for the brush and then salvage the wood. I do not sell firewood so whatever is not given away goes to the dump. My area I have a dump site that will take brush and logs mixed no length or size restriction so a dump trailer on my truck works best for me. They process it into mulch and sell it. Some areas a chipper makes more sense but then add the expense of the machine and additional truck to pull it and the personel to drive it. Eventually I will get a grapple and load in that fashion. A bobcat or small grapple to access yards and a grapple out front to load is the optimum scenario for me. Some like the chipper but it adds an expense and additional people, plus the liability. Chippers do condense to load and have a place but it depends on your operation.

 

[D Mc]

Good points, Dadatwins. But it is easy to fall in the trap of big chipper/big trucks/more personnel. Doesn't have to be like that. My wife and I use a 3/4 ton pickup with a chip box, a loadhandler, and a 6" chipper. Set up costs were nominal, no additional personnel, no big monthly payments. This will get us through 90% of what we do. Big jobs that require cranes and dump trucks can get subbed out as needed.

Dave

 

[pistol pete]

I have no desire to handle firewood due largely to the fact it is so cheap in my area. Last year a rick split and delivered ran $50.00. The time it would take to handle the wood several times could be spent working or doing maintenance.

It seems to me it takes lots of time and manpower to drag the limbs to the chipper and then hand load them. Wouldn't the extra trip or two to the dump be worthwhile with the loader setup, if you could do without the extra hand to drag brush and load the chipper? Not only that, having run a loader during Hurricane aftermath I can vouch for their speed. A large pine can be removed with 5 or 6 cuts vs 30 cuts when moved by hand.

I have a 1 ton 33 ft bucket truck and climb everything that the bucket can't reach. Am I missing out on $20,000.00 woth of saved time by not having 60 ft of reach(which is what I have seen arbortech trucks go for)? If not I would rather invest $25,000.00 in a 20 ft dump and track loader. I am also considering learning the landscaping trade, as there are absolutely no landscaping companies in a four town area. Weekly I get asked to do landscaping jobs most of which I must decline, do too lack of ability. The track loader would be a great at doing a number of landscaping chores, with it's endless supply of attachments.

 

[D Mc]

It sounds like you have given this some thought and have some good solid reasoning for making your decision. So what's up with the question? Sounds like a loader will work great for you.

We are not in the wood processing business either; we take what wood we want for our own use. We offer the client the option to have the wood left on site for a reduced rate or haul it away for added cost. Gives them options. Also, having wood available can win you some huge browny points if you have the right contacts; i.e., cabinet makers, wood carvers, even other wood processors. Helping folks out like that with wood when it is available will get your name out there in a good way.

Dave

 

[pistol pete]

It sounds like you have given this some thought and have some good solid reasoning for making your decision. So what's up with the question? Sounds like a loader will work great for you.

I have no experience using either system in a residential setting, other than storm cleanup. I am asking professionals to give me their opinion on what they think is the most cost effective and efficient. My "thought" is based purely on observation and not on experience. Yes I have formed an opinion but it must be flawed based on the fact that corporate tree services use a chipper. I simply want to know what will get the most bang for the buck.

 

[TimberMcPherson]

I have no experience using either system in a residential setting, other than storm cleanup. I am asking professionals to give me their opinion on what they think is the most cost effective and efficient. My "thought" is based purely on observation and not on experience. Yes I have formed an opinion but it must be flawed based on the fact that corporate tree services use a chipper. I simply want to know what will get the most bang for the buck.

I would think that you would be best to judge this one, as you have a better idea of local conditions, your competition, distance to dump, access for machines, cost of labour, nature of your work, demand for wood/mulch, type or expectation of cliental, potential for growth, work you get, work you dont get, potential contracts, weather conditions, Parking, local laws etc etc etc.

One way is to see how established local companies do it, it might not give you the best way for you but at least you can see how it can be done.

Dont forget to factor in strategic issues. What if gas quadruples? What if work runs low, what if you cant make payments due to injury or massive break downs, what if a big company moves into town, what if your dump areas dry up due to changes in access ownership or law?

Alot to think about, some might be applicable, some not.

 

[cjnspecial]

I asked my buddy who has a tree service and he said that a bobcat or tractor with a brush rake is much faster and requires less man power than using a chipper. Keep in mind that he has plenty of property to dump it on.

 

[mckeetree]

Don't forget mods I tried to do something to stop this ignorance before it got started good. I could see from the start the level of ridiculousness this thread was going to reach.

 

[cjnspecial]

Don't forget mods I tried to do something to stop this ignorance before it got started good. I could see from the start the level of ridiculousness this thread was going to reach.

When I was 12 I got into a little bit of trouble for trying to put my hand up a ladies skirt. She must have been 40 at the time. But hey, she wasn't stopping me.

Hello, Kettle. This is the Pot calling. LOL

 

[mckeetree]

Hello, Kettle. This is the Pot calling. LOL

You are right. Well, I missed cocktail hour yesterday and it had me in in a bad mood.

 

[pdqdl]

Loaders vs Chippers

I have both, and there are not nearly as many jobs for the loader as there are for the chipper. Then again, some jobs just aren't practical without the loader.

You should be aware that any loaders you put on a tree job are going to cause turf damage. Before you know it, you will have a landscaping crew following you around to fix your lawn damage. There are only a couple of small loaders that don't cause extensive damage whenever they turn, all the skid steer units tear up the ground and driveway. I bought the Bobcat A300, it has 4 wheel steering and floatation tires, so we avoid a lot of turf damage, but not all.

My opinion: you need a fairly good sized operation to justify the expense of a loader and the truck & trailer to haul it around in. Since you can't use it on the majority of your jobs, get a chipper first, then plan on getting the loader. A good chipper saves time and money. A loader saves a little time, but can add capacity to get more jobs than you could do otherwise.

 

[Pete M]

Chipper and tipper chip truck will win I reckon, especially for domestic jobs. Possibly different over there in the US, but here in the UK 99% of our domestic jobs seem to involve dragging stuff down narrow pathways between house and fence, and through 3ft or less gates. With the chipper, we just drag a heap of stuff out tot he front of the property, get it all stacked up, fire up the chipper and chip it all into the truck. It seems to be more efficient to get a good load of stuff heaped up then fire up the chipper for 15 minutes to chip it, then repeat again with another huge heap, than it is to have the chipper going continuously while drip feeding it with stuff.

Then when truck is full, it's off to the yard where we recycle everything to tip it out on the chip heap.