Who runs what and why? (Debris forwarding thread)

[ZinTrees]

Who here runs what, and how do you like it? what sort of work are you doing, and what would you rather have?

I ran a boxer 526dx for a few years, then a kubota KX040, just sold the kubota and about to buy a new holland ML12 (Giant G1200)

I work on lots of residential stuff, riverside cottages, town subdivisions and a little rural work in the woods, mostly level ish ground with the occasional silly steep hill, almost 100% on grass or asphalt, rarely gravel or bare dirt

the boxer did alright, destroys yards, can't lift a whole lot, but overall could get into anywhere and do most any job I asked of it, albeit slowly, controls were goofy but I got really friggin good at running it, looking to go into a wheel loader to do jobs more like the boxer did, but faster and less lawn damage, I won't be buying the telescopic boom version so I will be stuck with the auxiliary hydraulic control being a separate stick instead of a button, and won't be able to stack stuff as high, but will have more lift capacity and still do anything the boxer would (so almost 100% of any job I've ever done)

the only major concern I have is sidehill stability, I don't run machines on slick surfaces so traction isn't a worry nearly as much as turf damage, but we do encounter some wild hills here


this is just my quick thoughts on my last machine, some stuff about the new one, and my curiosity about other peoples setups, I may follow up later with a more detailed (and better laid out) list

 

[ZinTrees]

as far as actually grabbing the debris, my most used setup was a 56" non power rotate BMG and a lightweight set of forks for the really big rounds, I do really love the root rake grapples on a full size skidsteer but the mini skid ones usually suck

forks, when used by an experienced operator, can beat most anything, not as good for brush but you can get a LOT of work done with them, I still rather a grapple, but I've totally replaced a grapple with forks and got the same work done in almost the same time

 

[ClimberBusinessman]

I have a G1200 TELE and overall it's a great machine. Make sure to get the TELE, that little bit of extra reach is totally worth it in my opinion. Because I still don't have a chipper I stack my dump trailer about as high as it can reach, and then tie down the load.
I've had a few small issues, like a recent seat sensor that was replaced under warranty, but overall it's a great machine and I might buy another should I expand.

I haven't used a knock-around grapple on a job (only for a few minutes at an equipment dealer), but in my opinion, the power-rotate Branch Manager is worth it. TNE Distributing makes a similar grapple (they more or less copy the designs of Branch Manager, as the owner of TNE is the step-son of the owner of Branch Manager, and because it's family, they aren't going to sue for patent infringement). Also the broom is great for cleaning up the bulk of the twigs from ash tree removals, etc., and clam-shell scoops are great for piles of twigs, and some stump grindings, particularly if you like to remove those to below grade level (lately to keep our costs competitive I've been just offering to clean up the grindings down to approx. grade-level, and the 1 yard Branch Manager Bucket is ideal for this, along with a few pitch-forks to help load it once you get down to the end of the pile).

The G1200 Tele is great going strait up and down some moderately steep hills if you back up the hill or, alternatively, have plenty of weight on the front and drive up straight. It can even handle some snow if the snow is dry, and a little bit of ice on a hill, but too much of that and you'll slide down the hill. Super wet hills or super muddy conditions and you might not make it up the hill. Going up sideways on a hill isn't really a good idea. I believe the manual recommends no more than a 7 degree side slope, if I'm remembering correctly. Make sure to leave the oscillation joint in the active (up) position for a bit more stability (I saw someone claim you should not do this on hills, but it seems more "tippy" in my opinion with it in the inactive (down) position. I've never rolled it over yet. As far as hills are concerned, I don't have anywhere near enough experience with a large tracked machine to compare it to, but it's totally adequate for what we do. I was initially concerned that due to it being roughly 48" wide I wouldn't be able to get it through gates, but I've discovered most gates are wide enough to get through without an issue.

It can get through somewhat soft ground conditions with the turf tires, but too many times back and forth and you'll leave ruts or get it stuck and need to pull it out with a rope and a truck. Ground protection mats in the super soft conditions are worth it. Most of the time we don't bother bringing them and the ground protection mats sit around basically all summer long. Under normal dry conditions you can oftentimes see almost no lawn damage at all.
Another thing you can do is disable the backup alarm (it's under the seat). From my understanding, OSHA only requires a backup alarm if there's an obstructed view to the rear, and you can easily see what's behind you, and also there's mirrors on the CASE version.
If you encounter a heavy log, you can have 1-3 employees stand on the counterweight and hang on to the loader for additional counterweight, although this isn't recommended. The engine is quite strong for its size. I got my tires filled with RIMGUARD (beet juice) at the dealer and recommend it, as it adds extra weight and stability.

As far as maintenance is concerned, the G1200 TELE is quite compact so I did end up having the dealer deal with replacing fuel filters, as they are kind of buried in the engine compartment. Engine oil changes are easy to do DIY, and greasing can be done with some effort. Be prepared to spend the better part of an hour greasing it with an electric/battery grease-gun and the grapple every 10 hours (grapple recommends every 7 hours). There's a few very tough-to reach grease fittings such as the center pivot near the hydraulic hose, so use a LockNLube and a right-angle attachment fitting. Another tip I'd recommend it put a little tape on the Roll Over Protection System on the part of the cage the door closes onto. That cuts down on some of the idling noise.

Hope this information helps.

 

[ZinTrees]

thanks!

I'm looking at a non tele, just not justifiable to spend another 15K on the machine at the moment, same for the knock around grapple, I've got a few hundred hours running one and I can out work most anyone even if they have power rotate, so not a major concern, although I wouldn't pick the knock around over a power rotate if the price was the same

certainly looking at filling the tires, foam has been a thought but its super expensive, will probably do beet juice or windshield washer fluid

maintenance wise, looks similar to my old mini skid, actually easier because you can drain the oil without removing the engine (seriously, the drain plug on my boxer was hidden behind the bottom of the machine, which is welded on, oil got changed every time the engine mounts rattled loose and poked a hole in the filter, customers loved that)

now, the TELE can reach over my dump truck sides (8ft3) but I would never load that truck over the sides anyways, dropping rounds from 4 or 5ft above a wooden deck is going to do major damage really fast, this machine will be mostly for feeding a chipper and putting logs in a dump trailer (7x14x2), occasionally end loading the dump truck or loading pallets and equipment when I pull the sides off the truck (flatbed, removable sides)

it does look like you have to get a TELE unit to have the buttons to control the auxiliary's since its a whole different joystick, which does suck because the location of the aux lever isn't the greatest IMO, might stop by the dealer and play with their non tele, other thing is, I have work waiting on a machine and can't really go about ordering the tele and waiting

back up alarm will be getting unplugged probably before its even left the dealer's lot, those things are useless anyways, nobody pays any attention to them at all, not to mention you can't hear it over the chipper
same for the "doors", those will be coming off too, damn things always in the way and from the 3hr demo I got, I found myself hitting my head on them any time I'd lean to look at the grapple, no big deal, dealer told me they don't care if I take them off since it doesnt offer any structural integrity, just an attempt at keeping you in the machine when you eventually roll it over (rolled my mini skid into a tree once, and almost completely over backwards once, but never did lay it all the way onto its side)

I believe my price is $46,500 for the non tele, dealer is 10 minutes from my house, that price is with a bucket and a really nice set of forks, add about $3500 for a grapple which my dealer will roll into the financing, insurance should be around $35/month straight from new holland (CASE)


@ClimberBusinessman do you haul your machine in a dump trailer? thats what mine will be in, hauled my mini skid and mini ex in that, hate it but it works, not as bad on a small machine, just curious about the ramp angles, I slid off my trailer multiple times with the mini skid, thats not a fun ride

 

[ClimberBusinessman]

thanks!

I'm looking at a non tele, just not justifiable to spend another 15K on the machine at the moment, same for the knock around grapple, I've got a few hundred hours running one and I can out work most anyone even if they have power rotate, so not a major concern, although I wouldn't pick the knock around over a power rotate if the price was the same

certainly looking at filling the tires, foam has been a thought but its super expensive, will probably do beet juice or windshield washer fluid

maintenance wise, looks similar to my old mini skid, actually easier because you can drain the oil without removing the engine (seriously, the drain plug on my boxer was hidden behind the bottom of the machine, which is welded on, oil got changed every time the engine mounts rattled loose and poked a hole in the filter, customers loved that)

now, the TELE can reach over my dump truck sides (8ft3) but I would never load that truck over the sides anyways, dropping rounds from 4 or 5ft above a wooden deck is going to do major damage really fast, this machine will be mostly for feeding a chipper and putting logs in a dump trailer (7x14x2), occasionally end loading the dump truck or loading pallets and equipment when I pull the sides off the truck (flatbed, removable sides)

it does look like you have to get a TELE unit to have the buttons to control the auxiliary's since its a whole different joystick, which does suck because the location of the aux lever isn't the greatest IMO, might stop by the dealer and play with their non tele, other thing is, I have work waiting on a machine and can't really go about ordering the tele and waiting

back up alarm will be getting unplugged probably before its even left the dealer's lot, those things are useless anyways, nobody pays any attention to them at all, not to mention you can't hear it over the chipper
same for the "doors", those will be coming off too, damn things always in the way and from the 3hr demo I got, I found myself hitting my head on them any time I'd lean to look at the grapple, no big deal, dealer told me they don't care if I take them off since it doesnt offer any structural integrity, just an attempt at keeping you in the machine when you eventually roll it over (rolled my mini skid into a tree once, and almost completely over backwards once, but never did lay it all the way onto its side)

I believe my price is $46,500 for the non tele, dealer is 10 minutes from my house, that price is with a bucket and a really nice set of forks, add about $3500 for a grapple which my dealer will roll into the financing, insurance should be around $35/month straight from new holland (CASE)


@ClimberBusinessman do you haul your machine in a dump trailer? thats what mine will be in, hauled my mini skid and mini ex in that, hate it but it works, not as bad on a small machine, just curious about the ramp angles, I slid off my trailer multiple times with the mini skid, thats not a fun ride

I do haul it with a dump trailer. It's a little steep but workable as long as the ramps aren't crazy wet or really snowy/icy.

 

[tree MDS]

I would save up your allowance and get the tele.

 

[ZinTrees]

I would save up your allowance and get the tele.

im tryin, but ma won't go up to $25 a week, and I don't wanna lose the lift capacity

 

[tree MDS]

im tryin, but ma won't go up to $25 a week, and I don't wanna lose the lift capacity

What happened to the super cool excavator?

 

[gorman]

I heard doing oil changes on those Giants is a real pain in the butt

 

[CUCV]

I feel like the lift charts don't line up between the tele and standard unit. The standard unit is rated at the pins while the tele is rated half way out the forks. I could be wrong but it seems to me like the load capacity should be very similar between the two units in the standard units lift range.

How do you plan to mobilize your equipment onto the job when adding this rig? I'm still trying to optimize mobilizing the debris forwarding rig. If the man lift is going the mini skid can go on the trailer with it so there is no extra mobilizing. It's a bit sketchy putting the mini skid in the back of the dump truck, but if I only have 1 load of debris the mini skid requires and extra mobile home anyway. I've been dreaming of a drop axle and mini skid platform on the chipper for years now.

 

[ZinTrees]

I feel like the lift charts don't line up between the tele and standard unit. The standard unit is rated at the pins while the tele is rated half way out the forks. I could be wrong but it seems to me like the load capacity should be very similar between the two units in the standard units lift range.

How do you plan to mobilize your equipment onto the job when adding this rig? I'm still trying to optimize mobilizing the debris forwarding rig. If the man lift is going the mini skid can go on the trailer with it so there is no extra mobilizing. It's a bit sketchy putting the mini skid in the back of the dump truck, but if I only have 1 load of debris the mini skid requires and extra mobile home anyway. I've been dreaming of a drop axle and mini skid platform on the chipper for years now.

itll ride on a 10K tilt deck behind my dump truck, or in my 14K dump trailer behind a pickup


I think the lift charts are correct, the tele boom weighs a lot more than the standard boom, I do remember from the demo I did, the tele won't lift much at all once you scope it out, maybe 1000 pounds

What happened to the super cool excavator?

sold it, not doing as much clearing work as I used to, and it was a little too heavy to go on a 10K trailer so that cut my transport options significantly, and the payment was a little more than I wanted to be making

I heard doing oil changes on those Giants is a real pain in the butt

can't be worse than my boxer, there was literally no drainplug access on it, you'd have to torch out the belly pan or pull the engine it seems, so It never got changed

 

[ClimberBusinessman]

I would save up your allowance and get the tele.

Even without loading a trailer high like I do, I find myself using a the tele quite a few times on most every job. Sometimes you need to reach out and get something a little beyond where you want to drive, for instance, a log from an ornamental tree that was removed, in a landscape bed where there's a 1' tall retaining wall, and the tele is useful for that. I did hear that Giant is cheaper than CASE but that the reason is that CASE subsidizes their financing so their rates are cheaper. They are both substantially the same machine with the same parts ( although Case adds on the mirrors). I would have regretted not having the TELE. It makes the machine so much more versatile. It's obviously your decision, but in my opinion it's totally worth it. I believe the TELE adds on about $5,000 extra vs the non-TELE version.

 

[ClimberBusinessman]

I heard doing oil changes on those Giants is a real pain in the butt

The oil change is actually not hard at all. It's one bolt at the bottom of it, and you can fit a catch pan underneath. It's the fuel filters that are huge pain as they are jammed in the compartment (I had the dealer deal with those).

 

[ZinTrees]

I believe the TELE adds on about $5,000 extra vs the non-TELE version.

when financed, its a $14,000 difference, I do agree it'd be good to be able to reach up and over walls and stuff, but its VERY rare that I can't get the machine right up to the material I am moving, and I don't stack my trailer super high, even if it can handle the weight, I've torn doors off twice now with wood bouncing off while dumping, so I try not to go higher than the sides if I can avoid it, the non tele still lifts 8 inches higher than my mini skid, and I routinely loaded my trailer to 12-14K with that setup, takes finesse but its 100% doable

oh, and I need a machine like next week, not in a few months, they have to order the tele and waiting isn't optional

 

[ZinTrees]

anyways, I'm more interested to see what other machines people run, not people bickering back and forth about my purchase that doesn't affect them, I have my reasons for getting a non tele and y'all are just wasting your time trying to sell me on a machine that I have ran, and have no need to spend an extra $14,000 on, this thread isn't for your pissing contest of who's boom is longer


lets see those skidsteers, mini skids, telehandlers, tractors, etc

 

[ATH]

as far as actually grabbing the debris, my most used setup was a 56" non power rotate BMG and a lightweight set of forks for the really big rounds, I do really love the root rake grapples on a full size skidsteer but the mini skid ones usually suck

forks, when used by an experienced operator, can beat most anything, not as good for brush but you can get a LOT of work done with them, I still rather a grapple, but I've totally replaced a grapple with forks and got the same work done in almost the same time

Still dragging by hand...but we don't do removals, so its doable. Looking at wheeled articulated loaders. I like what I've seen of Giant and Intrepid.

I do think I've settled on wanting one where the operator is sitting on the back half of the machine instead of the front (so the tail isn't swinging around where I cannot see it).

As to the grapple vs. forks...the forks take up so little space on a truck/trailer and are so cheap (relatively speaking), why not run with both?

You are hauling brush instead of chips? (I do too...). How are you hauling the machine and brush at the same time? Most work happens between the brush dump site (west side of town) and shop (east side of town) so it wouldn't be unreasonable to leave it on site and pick it up on the way back (most of the time). Also thought about replacing the truck bed with a flat bed and hauling the machine on the truck.

 

[ZinTrees]

I chip anything and everything that fits in my 250xp, only hauling brush on jobs where it doesn't make sense to bring a chipper due to space on site or volume, I can dump chips for free anywhere but its $100-150 for a 7x14 loaded with brush or wood at the mulch yard and $60/ton at the landfill, all logs have to be under 6ft long at the mulch yard and under 24" at the landfill, which is another reason I sold my excavator, 10K pound machine to move 24-72" rounds sucks, lot of expense to operate, insure, haul, maintain, etc to just move rounds


I've loaded wood in the front of the trailer, mini skid on the back, or one long log on the side and mini on the other, balances out nicely
I do carry forks quite often, used them with my boxer to carry plywood and larger rounds when the branch manager wouldn't do it, just cut them thin enough to move, then fork them, get another 100# or so of capacity, the ML12/giant comes with forks from the dealer for free


for the most part, right now I am set up to carry chips and a chipper on one truck, machine and dump trailer on the other, haul small loads with the machine in one trip or go back for it, I don't work more than 40 minutes from my house so its worst case another 2 hours to go get the machine, which does suck but its doable, with my excavator you had to make a 2nd trip no matter what, it was too big to even hope of fitting in a trailer with debris


here was me hauling the mini skid in a trailer with debris, as you can see, its far from the right way to do it, but it got the job done and kept DOT happy

 

[ClimberBusinessman]

Still dragging by hand...but we don't do removals, so its doable. Looking at wheeled articulated loaders. I like what I've seen of Giant and Intrepid.

I do think I've settled on wanting one where the operator is sitting on the back half of the machine instead of the front (so the tail isn't swinging around where I cannot see it).

As to the grapple vs. forks...the forks take up so little space on a truck/trailer and are so cheap (relatively speaking), why not run with both?

You are hauling brush instead of chips? (I do too...). How are you hauling the machine and brush at the same time? Most work happens between the brush dump site (west side of town) and shop (east side of town) so it wouldn't be unreasonable to leave it on site and pick it up on the way back (most of the time). Also thought about replacing the truck bed with a flat bed and hauling the machine on the truck.

Not sure who you were referring to, but I do haul brush instead of chips. Unless it's just a few branches, I can't get the loader and the brush on the same time. The results in me driving around a lot and going back to the jobsite to fetch the loader.

 

[ATH]

Not sure who you were referring to, but I do haul brush instead of chips. Unless it's just a few branches, I can't get the loader and the brush on the same time. The results in me driving around a lot and going back to the jobsite to fetch the loader.

Thanks! I think mostly question to the OP...but really interested in anyone who has a brush/loader system, so your answer is perfectly what I was asking.