Why do "Chinesium" chainsaws need a richer oil mix?

Arborist Forum

Help Support Arborist Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
A proper chain pulls itself away from the bar and feeds into the wood on its own. A dull chain heats up the bar from prying on the dogs. Not to mention the 3–4 times longer it takes to cut the log without giving the saw a break to cool down. That added heat from the bar and slipping the clutch transfers into the case
100% correct. You're bogging the saw therefore the saw can't extract the heat as well, combined with the extra heat from the added bar friction. When I'm milling and really pushing the saw I can feel the exhaust get hotter. Let off a bit and let the revs climb for just a few seconds and I can feel it running cooler.
 
Like was said before. Richer oil mix is better for the saw. 50:1 is only to satisfy environmental concerns
Not necessarily. As long as all parts are coated with an oil film, more oil will not improve lubrication. What it will do is clog up the spark arrestor with carbon and gunk. I don't know what the minimum ratio is for a given saw or oil, but I don't think it would help the saw with today's oils to go back to 16:1 or even 8:1. I use Amsoil Saber at 50:1 with no problems in my 500i. Probably, 70:1 would be OK, but the oil is cheaper than saw repairs.
 
A proper chain pulls itself away from the bar and feeds into the wood on its own. A dull chain heats up the bar from prying on the dogs. Not to mention the 3–4 times longer it takes to cut the log without giving the saw a break to cool down. That added heat from the bar and slipping the clutch transfers into the case
Astute observation! Never would have thought that that much heat would be transferred. I always figured that spitting dust, would land up coating the fins and air intake grill. Hence, the reason to blow out the saw with compressed air after use.
 
Not necessarily. As long as all parts are coated with an oil film, more oil will not improve lubrication. What it will do is clog up the spark arrestor with carbon and gunk. I don't know what the minimum ratio is for a given saw or oil, but I don't think it would help the saw with today's oils to go back to 16:1 or even 8:1. I use Amsoil Saber at 50:1 with no problems in my 500i. Probably, 70:1 would be OK, but the oil is cheaper than saw repairs.
There was a study done I believe for maximum power output in 2 stroke motorcross bikes and they found that 16:1 was the best for pure power but bad carbon build up and 32:1 was best all around. Not sure on the study or the results but I'm sure if you look around you could still find it.
 
There was a study done I believe for maximum power output in 2 stroke motorcross bikes and they found that 16:1 was the best for pure power but bad carbon build up and 32:1 was best all around. Not sure on the study or the results but I'm sure if you look around you could still find it.
Correct.
Reduces boundary lubrication friction
Seals rings better esp. on flimsy jugs with out of round bores
Buffers needle bearings from reverse impact(big end)

cliff
 
There was a study done I believe for maximum power output in 2 stroke motorcross bikes and they found that 16:1 was the best for pure power but bad carbon build up and 32:1 was best all around. Not sure on the study or the results but I'm sure if you look around you could still find it.
It might depend on both the oil and the engine.
 
OEM have no issues using the enemy like your trying to call them. :dizzy: :laughing: :laughing:
Sadly, that is the fault of our politicians FAILURES to understand the ways/ methods and plans of CHN that has allowed and encouraged the devalue of the USD? Had Cater/ Reagan/ Bush/ others added proper Tariffs 20+yrs ago, we wud likely have most of OUR MFR still in the USA, and the KRYSTAL burger would not now be $1.25+ using unlabeled foreign grown beef? I RECALL the days (1970s) when the USD was King and worth much more than the CHND and Copyrights were Enforced and Violations PUNISHED. There are books I have heard that detail how CHN/ Communists planned years ago to conquer the world without firing a shot.
 
Sadly, that is the fault of our politicians FAILURES to understand the ways/ methods and plans of CHN that has allowed and encouraged the devalue of the USD? Had Cater/ Reagan/ Bush/ others added proper Tariffs 20+yrs ago, we wud likely have most of OUR MFR still in the USA, and the KRYSTAL burger would not now be $1.25+ using unlabeled foreign grown beef? I RECALL the days (1970s) when the USD was King and worth much more than the CHND and Copyrights were Enforced and Violations PUNISHED. There are books I have heard that detail how CHN/ Communists planned years ago to conquer the world without firing a shot.
Has nothing to do with German and Sweden companies using them and selling to us at full price still.
 
There was a study done I believe for maximum power output in 2 stroke motorcross bikes and they found that 16:1 was the best for pure power but bad carbon build up and 32:1 was best all around. Not sure on the study or the results but I'm sure if you look around you could still find it.
While pertinent at its time, 2 stroke oil has come a long way since the 80's-early 90's when that study was conducted. They were, also, testing dirtbike engines. By comparison a chainsaw, even in a high state of tune is pretty low output. The principals remain the same though, more oil is better to a point. It would be interesting to see that test repeated, but with saws and modern oils.
 
Not necessarily. As long as all parts are coated with an oil film, more oil will not improve lubrication. What it will do is clog up the spark arrestor with carbon and gunk. I don't know what the minimum ratio is for a given saw or oil, but I don't think it would help the saw with today's oils to go back to 16:1 or even 8:1. I use Amsoil Saber at 50:1 with no problems in my 500i. Probably, 70:1 would be OK, but the oil is cheaper than saw repairs.
You’re 500 isn’t a strato. 50:1 with saber is adequate. If a Strato saw is 30% more efficient, it’s doing the same work on 30% less oil going through the bearings. That puts the ratio down to about 36:1 I believe in order for the bearings and cylinder to receive the same amount of oil as an old school two-stroke design. And more oil doesn’t necessarily plug things up with carbon. There are many oils out today that have enough detergent in them that the more you run, the cleaner they are inside
 
While pertinent at its time, 2 stroke oil has come a long way since the 80's-early 90's when that study was conducted. They were, also, testing dirtbike engines. By comparison a chainsaw, even in a high state of tune is pretty low output. The principals remain the same though, more oil is better to a point. It would be interesting to see that test repeated, but with saws and modern oils.
The stuff I’ve read was on kart racing motors. Many of them were Mac chainsaw engines. A 120 cc engine made the most power at 18:1. I would imagine that that number is more like 24:1 in most smaller chainsaws due to lighter moving parts and the added oil causing drag
 
The stuff I’ve read was on kart racing motors. Many of them were Mac chainsaw engines. A 120 cc engine made the most power at 18:1. I would imagine that that number is more like 24:1 in most smaller chainsaws due to lighter moving parts and the added oil causing drag
24:1 for my gas racing saws in the day. What seemed to be the best.

Right there on the jug back in the day. 24 and 32 when stuff was ported.
 

Attachments

  • gtgsawss.jpg
    gtgsawss.jpg
    501.1 KB
Sadly, that is the fault of our politicians FAILURES to understand the ways/ methods and plans of CHN that has allowed and encouraged the devalue of the USD? Had Cater/ Reagan/ Bush/ others added proper Tariffs 20+yrs ago, we wud likely have most of OUR MFR still in the USA, and the KRYSTAL burger would not now be $1.25+ using unlabeled foreign grown beef? I RECALL the days (1970s) when the USD was King and worth much more than the CHND and Copyrights were Enforced and Violations PUNISHED. There are books I have heard that detail how CHN/ Communists planned years ago to conquer the world without firing a shot.
Tariffs are a terrible idea. Read books by Walter E Williams and Thomas Sowell and you will understand why. Suffice it to say that tariffs are a tax on the poor and middle class more than on the rich, as they are paid by the consumer, not the manufacturer. Nations with high tariffs perform worse economically than those with little or no tariffs.
 
You’re 500 isn’t a strato. 50:1 with saber is adequate. If a Strato saw is 30% more efficient, it’s doing the same work on 30% less oil going through the bearings. That puts the ratio down to about 36:1 I believe in order for the bearings and cylinder to receive the same amount of oil as an old school two-stroke design. And more oil doesn’t necessarily plug things up with carbon. There are many oils out today that have enough detergent in them that the more you run, the cleaner they are inside
I have my doubts that a strato saw is more efficient than a fuel injected saw. Honda used to put stratified charge engines in their vehicles, but changed over to fuel injection for more power and better fuel economy. Would not the same apply to chainsaws? BTW, my 500i cuts more wood per gallon of fuel than my previous 441C or 038 Super.
 
The stuff I’ve read was on kart racing motors. Many of them were Mac chainsaw engines. A 120 cc engine made the most power at 18:1. I would imagine that that number is more like 24:1 in most smaller chainsaws due to lighter moving parts and the added oil causing drag
The study most refer to was done by Yamaha. I wasn't aware there was one done for kart engines too, although I wasn't into karts so wouldn't have known about it. It would make sense similar conclusions were drawn, the old macs had more in common with dirt bikes engines of the era then what most saws did at that time.
Going off memory, I think the conclusion was 16 to 1 was the happy medium for making power vs parasitic drag, although I can't remember what oil was deemed "the best". Too long ago. I'd still like to see the same test done with some of the modern oils we have available today.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top