Why do people cut like this??

[Zackman1801]

why benefits do you get from making your notch angled? ive always been taught to avoid that because it can present safety hazards. i use the bore cut and open faced notch but not like that. just wonder why they make you cut like that.

 

[056kid]

I have never understood the i dea behind thoes shallow obtuce faces. If you wanna controle a tree, use the sturdiest wood straight across the middle of the stump.

 

[idahohay]

Some notch just for he sake of notching.

 

[2dogs]

Some notch just for he sake of notching.

That is the Idaho wave notch.

 

[Zackman1801]

looks like a beaver got into there.
there are 3 pines up where i play paintball that are about 36" DBH had were gutted by beavers and are left standing on about 5" of wood. im suprised they lasted this long.

The open faced notch controls the tree well, its not the notch that steers the tree its hinge. the notch lets the tree fall since the wood is no longer there to stop it. Once its started to make is decent the notch no longer has a job and the hinge takes over.

 

[(WLL)]

Around here it's like a Humbolt, and a conventional combined.
Sloped on the stump, and the log.

Andy

that would be the open faced notch

 

[056kid]

Felling trees that lean heavily puts tons of pulling pressure on huge wood and the stump too obviously. Selecting holding wood close to the outer portion of the stump raises the chance that the stump will peel especially on trees that have alot of flair. imo..

 

[smokechase II]

Hinge comment

"The open faced notch controls the tree well, its not the notch that steers the tree its hinge. the notch lets the tree fall since the wood is no longer there to stop it. Once its started to make is decent the notch no longer has a job and the hinge takes over."

The tree can be steered by the notch.
A shallow slanting notch can be set up to deliberately roll a tree against a lean. (The face closes quickly on one side first and then rolls toward the more open part of the face.)
This is more commonly done with a dutch block - (or other spacer placed on one side of the face. Picture a conventional with a solid rock or other item placed on the flat on one side.) Same principle also with a snipe offset.

Second point here would be when the tree is a snag and does not have any useable holding wood because it is rotten.
What can be done then, if the lean to be conquered is relatively minor, is to make a deeper face and that will create a superior release in the lay direction.
So the hinge is irrelevant - no real strength anyway - but the face can direct the tree to a lay off the lean. (Because the fulcrum was moved to 'encourage' movement in that direction.)
{Caveat on this one is that for the newbee there is a good chance of trying this on a tree with too much lean and having it go over backwards.}
This technique does not have to be limited to just rotten trees.

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However; mostly trees are steered by a properly made hinge. Just qualifying this with other options.
With familiarity on the use of shorter/angled or deeper faces to alter felling direction think of hinge and face as a team in directional control in those instances.

 

[smokechase II]

Let's not forget wedges

Trivia:

Wedges can of course steer a tree.

The hinge just holds the tree while wedges change the lean.

It is this changing of the lean that controls the felling direction.

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Just a concept thought.

 

[smokechase II]

Open face and birds mouth

"Birds Mouth:

Around here it's like a Humbolt, and a conventional combined.
Sloped on the stump, and the log.

that would be the open faced notch."

===============

Stop. Everyone is correct.

West Coast term from years ago for what is elsewhere called an open face was a birds mouth.
Basically.
Exception to this is that often the birds mouth was even top and bottom. So similar but not exact.

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Red Green: "You know me, safety forced."

 

[2dogs]

The open faced notch controls the tree well, its not the notch that steers the tree its hinge. the notch lets the tree fall since the wood is no longer there to stop it. Once its started to make is decent the notch no longer has a job and the hinge takes over.

The notch can indeed help steer the tree. If the notch is sawn so one side closes first the tree will swing away. A wedge placed in the notch (thrown in at the last second ) will help push the tree away from that side. And of course a Humboldt will get the tree to the ground faster or give a launch to it. A gap will do similar though more exagerated.

 

[redprospector]

"Birds Mouth:

Around here it's like a Humbolt, and a conventional combined.
Sloped on the stump, and the log.

that would be the open faced notch."

===============

Stop. Everyone is correct.

West Coast term from years ago for what is elsewhere called an open face was a birds mouth.
Basically.
Exception to this is that often the birds mouth was even top and bottom. So similar but not exact.

-----------

Red Green: "You know me, safety forced."

From years ago? I must be getting old.

Andy

 

[matt9923]

Well i was cutting today for a guy. I started my cut, did the notch and then started the back cut he runs over and starts yelling at me that i was doing it all wrong and have to have the nothch on an angle like the picture. I tried to explain to him that he was wrong and the right way but he refues so to shut him up i did his stipud angle cut??? they were smaller trees so it worked fine but i did gut the stumps down alot lowwer i was embarased LOL
He onley stayed for 2 trees and left thinking he showed me something? Ill let him think he won. The comment about ingnorance being expensive or soemthign is very true? talk about :deadhorse: peopel dont wana learn. idk about some peopel then you get these dumies who never ran a saw making how to videos? :help: Not good cause peopel think oh he has chaps and a helmet he must a pro.....
Safe cutting Matt

 

[ropensaddle]

You know this made me remember a time when we had this overzealous tree guy on another crew that liked to examine other crews worksites. I caught him walking our right of way looking at stumps and such so, I decided to have fun.I topped some trees to drop later and left them standing for a week or so next time I seen him he was standing at the base looking up at the 20 trunk shaking his head lol. We bumped into them at lunch and this kid asked are you going to cut those poles down and I looked puzzled at him. I said what do you mean and he said those in between us that have no limbs. I said they are clear aren't they and he looked away, I never told him I cut them after their crew worked out of site This kid had maybe worked there 6 months and just learned lateral trimming, good kid but too nosy for his own good. We left a couple of stumps high that were notched toward the lines after cutting them from a higher point just to mess with the inspector

 

[matt9923]

You know this made me remember a time when we had this overzealous tree guy on another crew that liked to examine other crews worksites. I caught him walking our right of way looking at stumps and such so, I decided to have fun.I topped some trees to drop later and left them standing for a week or so next time I seen him he was standing at the base looking up at the 20 trunk shaking his head lol. We bumped into them at lunch and this kid asked are you going to cut those poles down and I looked puzzled at him. I said what do you mean and he said those in between us that have no limbs. I said they are clear aren't they and he looked away, I never told him I cut them after their crew worked out of site This kid had maybe worked there 6 months and just learned lateral trimming, good kid but too nosy for his own good. We left a couple of stumps high that were notched toward the lines after cutting them from a higher point just to mess with the inspector

AHAHA i hear you soem peopel get worried about other people? dont know why. Gatta love the indirect fing with people. You know you did it and they know you did it but nobody says anything.

 

[smokechase II]

Another way Brothers and Sisters

"Well i was cutting today for a guy. I started my cut, did the notch and then started the back cut he runs over and starts yelling at me that i was doing it all wrong and have to have the nothch on an angle like the picture. I tried to explain to him that he was wrong and the right way but he refues so to shut him up i did his stipud angle cut??? they were smaller trees so it worked fine but i did gut the stumps down alot lowwer i was embarased LOL
He onley stayed for 2 trees and left thinking he showed me something? Ill let him think he won."

=============

When dealing with an individual who has been through a zealous training I have found carrying a copy of the 'Watchtower' handy. (Jehovah's Witness scary stuff)
Usually they'll get a glazed look and back off.

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OK, so I wasn't funny. BUT, comparing falling fanatics with religious fanatics has its place.

 

[smokechase II]

Learning from every source

One might wish to consider that having the most tools is a way to succeed.

Similarly, having the greatest knowledge ..............

There are numerous techniques that all of us don't have or haven't even heard of.

Don't limit your knowledge toolchest.

 

[smokechase II]

Safety and

"The notch can indeed help steer the tree. If the notch is sawn so one side closes first the tree will swing away. A wedge placed in the notch (thrown in at the last second ) will help push the tree away from that side. And of course a Humboldt will get the tree to the ground faster or give a launch to it. A gap will do similar though more exagerated."

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When looking at what other techniques might be available for you to use we have to consider that some methods are unsafe and should not be attempted.

"A wedge placed in the notch (thrown in at the last second)"

This sounds like a humboldt cutter, staying at the stump.

Safety. Fair enough. Is there a way around this safety violation for you?

*************

1) Use a conventional, as stated, and place wedge or other object prior to the back-cut. The bottom flat of a conventional face allows for this.
2) Use a humboldt but with a snipe offset to help take the tree in the desired direction.

The humboldt snipe is actually the best way of doing this as there is nothing to pop out.

 

[Ghillie]

"Well i was cutting today for a guy. I started my cut, did the notch and then started the back cut he runs over and starts yelling at me that i was doing it all wrong and have to have the nothch on an angle like the picture. I tried to explain to him that he was wrong and the right way but he refues so to shut him up i did his stipud angle cut??? they were smaller trees so it worked fine but i did gut the stumps down alot lowwer i was embarased LOL
He onley stayed for 2 trees and left thinking he showed me something? Ill let him think he won."

=============

When dealing with an individual who has been through a zealous training I have found carrying a copy of the 'Watchtower' handy. (Jehovah's Witness scary stuff)
Usually they'll get a glazed look and back off.

-------------

OK, so I wasn't funny. BUT, comparing falling fanatics with religious fanatics has its place.

I thought it was funny..... Although with my luck, he would say "I'm interested.....Tell me more"!

Out of bullets or I'd rep ya'

 

[smokechase II]

Problems with blinders on

One of the problems with open face zealotry is that people actually start believing it is fact.

Look at this narrow interpetation: "The open faced notch controls the tree well, its not the notch that steers the tree its hinge. the notch lets the tree fall since the wood is no longer there to stop it. Once its started to make is decent the notch no longer has a job and the hinge takes over."

There are all kinds of other factors that control the fall.

In a well done series of cuts, usually the hinge is the most desireable/superior 'tool' in controlling the fall. It is not the only one.