Why doesn't Stihl tell us more?

[460Ted]

When I first looked at buying A Stihl chainsaw, I read the specs on line and in the Stihl catalogue like most 1st time buyers do. Comparing the listed specs between the mid range saws and the pro saws makes one believe there is only small differences between the two product lines. It was only after spending much time here, that I was able to begin to understand the real differences. I'm happy to say that I feel I've made the right choice in getting a pro saw! After running my friends 390 back to back against my 460, I now realize why there is such a price difference between the two. I just wish Stihl could do a better job in advertising the real differences in their saws, so that future buyers would understand what exactly they're paying for.

Thanks AS for a very informative site!

 

[skwerl]

It keeps a larger percentage of customers happy. The homeowners feel better because they got 'Stihl power and reliability' for cheap and the pros know which saws are the real pro saws. If the homeowners knew that the 029 was such a pig, do you think they would buy so many?

 

[wagonwheeler]

Certainly. And those pigs keep the customers coming back for other homeowner 2 stroke equipment because they do what they are supposed to do. It's all part of the business plan.

By far the majority of the population will - regarless of how much or accurate the information - go for the lowest price. If they can get 'the name' for a better 'deal' - all the better. Husky and Stihl both profit from that - and why shouldn't they? If either had a completely 'pro' line that whole segment of the market wouldn't darken thier doors. (Except that Husky went the extra step to darken doors on thier own and find the folks that are so cheap they won't shop outside the box stores.) That's fine too. Just part of thier business plan.

And there is market of non-pros that want quality and dealer support but don't need a pro saw, trimmer, blower. They don't want box store junk (which gets worse and worse in quality as they compete for the shelves in Wal Mart, Lowes, etc...). 250's, 290's, Husky 350's and Ranchers, etc... are IDEAL saws for a large sector. A friend of mine who manages a hunting plantation has 4 or 5 270's w/ the quick chain adjuster. Perfect for his 'hired help' and the Stihl shop maintains all thier saws, mowers, pole saws, trimmers, etc...

People who care to, investigate at whatever level and determine thier needs. They enjoy thier just reward. Box store shoppers investigate price and they, too, enjoy thier just reward...more than once, generally ...

Chaser

 

[04ultra]

I have 029 super if that wasen't a big deal SUPER oh boy .. But it runs good so I cant complain

 

[belgian]

Certainly. And those pigs keep the customers coming back for other homeowner 2 stroke equipment because they do what they are supposed to do. It's all part of the business plan.

By far the majority of the population will - regarless of how much or accurate the information - go for the lowest price. If they can get 'the name' for a better 'deal' - all the better. Husky and Stihl both profit from that - and why shouldn't they? If either had a completely 'pro' line that whole segment of the market wouldn't darken thier doors. (Except that Husky went the extra step to darken doors on thier own and find the folks that are so cheap they won't shop outside the box stores.) That's fine too. Just part of thier business plan.

And there is market of non-pros that want quality and dealer support but don't need a pro saw, trimmer, blower. They don't want box store junk (which gets worse and worse in quality as they compete for the shelves in Wal Mart, Lowes, etc...). 250's, 290's, Husky 350's and Ranchers, etc... are IDEAL saws for a large sector. A friend of mine who manages a hunting plantation has 4 or 5 270's w/ the quick chain adjuster. Perfect for his 'hired help' and the Stihl shop maintains all thier saws, mowers, pole saws, trimmers, etc...

People who care to, investigate at whatever level and determine thier needs. They enjoy thier just reward. Box store shoppers investigate price and they, too, enjoy thier just reward...more than once, generally ...

Chaser

good post, chaser !

 

[BIG JAKE]

I bought a Poulan 2200 back in 93 or maybe earlier- after I seized my McCulloch 2.1 eager beaver. It still runs great. I keep it clean, run quality oil, and never run it harder than i need to to get the job done. I run the same 2 stroke oil as what I use in my dirt bikes-Maxima blend with castor oil. Always had good luck with Castor oil even when I ran straight Castor bean oil in the 70's. Never seized a motor on it as with Amsoil. But I haven't ran Amsoil in 25 years maybe it's better now. Recently switched to Stihl oil easier in the little bottles. Point is if you don't run em lean and take care of em, those cheap saws can last a long time. My 011 cuts faster and is a better saw but a 2.5 motor too. I cut pine, doug fir, white fir, ragbark cedar, juniper, and a little oak with it but mostly pine and fir. Softer woods. Might be in the ball park of 20-30 cords on it but I never kept track. I burn between 2-3 cords a year and cut for a few other folks.
I do love my 028WB though.

 

[stihltech]

oink?

One man's pig is another man's perfect saw.

I was just working on 029's last night. These people are happy with the saw.
If you check the posts you will find MANY happy owners. It's an opinion.

I would not own a box store saw, but many people on here do. Should they be told they are stupid because of it? No.
There questions need to be answered without making them feel they like second class operators.
Tell them what they need to know to make them safer, more efficient operators, what ever they run.

OK, time to get off the soap box now, I see the rotten tomatoes coming.

 

[ccicora]

UMMM excuse me mr stihltech yellow lunch box administrator...... You just helocoiled a 3120 and pointed and smiled while I did the repair work (not big fuel lines and filters, bad plug, little BS Stuff) and then you had the fun of putting the saw in the log and waking up the valley with the overly Loud exhaust that said Hack "ME" did for the customer. mmmm :spam:

 

[woodfarmer]

stihl models

ok answer this for me, why does stihl carry so many models that are within half a hp, ie 341/361, 440/460, 650/660. the weight differences are negligable and the bigger two pairs are within 6cc of each other?

 

[b1rdman]

Certainly. And those pigs keep the customers coming back for other homeowner 2 stroke equipment because they do what they are supposed to do. It's all part of the business plan.

By far the majority of the population will - regarless of how much or accurate the information - go for the lowest price. If they can get 'the name' for a better 'deal' - all the better. Husky and Stihl both profit from that - and why shouldn't they? If either had a completely 'pro' line that whole segment of the market wouldn't darken thier doors. (Except that Husky went the extra step to darken doors on thier own and find the folks that are so cheap they won't shop outside the box stores.) That's fine too. Just part of thier business plan.

And there is market of non-pros that want quality and dealer support but don't need a pro saw, trimmer, blower. They don't want box store junk (which gets worse and worse in quality as they compete for the shelves in Wal Mart, Lowes, etc...). 250's, 290's, Husky 350's and Ranchers, etc... are IDEAL saws for a large sector. A friend of mine who manages a hunting plantation has 4 or 5 270's w/ the quick chain adjuster. Perfect for his 'hired help' and the Stihl shop maintains all thier saws, mowers, pole saws, trimmers, etc...

People who care to, investigate at whatever level and determine thier needs. They enjoy thier just reward. Box store shoppers investigate price and they, too, enjoy thier just reward...more than once, generally ...

Chaser

Spot on...

I'm own one of those pigs and it suits me perfectly. I happen to be one of the many people in the market segment that Stihl is targeting with the MS290.

I cut less than 10 cord of wood a year (to 4 foot lenghts), I manage blowdowns on my property, and I keep up a few miles of snowmobile trails.

$299 price point and a stihl dealer 2 miles from the house doesn't hurt either.

 

[ccicora]

Have you done the muffler mod and fixed the plastic lock outs on the carb?

 

[fishhuntcutwood]

ok answer this for me, why does stihl carry so many models that are within half a hp, ie 341/361, 440/460, 650/660. the weight differences are negligable and the bigger two pairs are within 6cc of each other?

The 341/361 are intended for different markets, though they may overlap in some places. The 440/460 exist because they are different saws. There's enough of a weight and power difference that they do feel and handle significantly different in your hand. The 650/660 coexist due to emmissions. It's a political thing, but the 650 was born to help Stihl with gov't emmissions policies.

Jeff

 

[ccicora]

So buy the cheaper of the 660 0r 650 and put the big bore kit on it!

 

[sedanman]

Stihl and Husqvarna make more of their total profit on homeowner stuff than pro stuff. For every pro out there there are at least a few thousand homeowners.

 

[smokechase II]

The 440 and 460 are different enough that I can't picture a large outfit not trying to fill both those market niches.

 

[460Ted]

Sorry if I made it sound like the mid range saws from Stihl are bad, that was not what I was tring to say! The mid range saws are most certainly good saws, I was just saying that for me (a novice when it comes to Stihls) when I looked over the specs from Stihl, there seemed to be not that big of a difference. Stihl should IMHO, list more of the manufacturing differences, things like case material, ports, drive sprockets. Car manufactures do this as well as motorcycle manufactures- a more informed customer will be a happier one in the long run. It's almost like Stihl wants the non-pro, to think the mid range saws are the same as the pro series, example a 390 is recommended for up to a 28" bar where as a 361 is recommended for up to a 20"? This tells someone who doesn't know better, that the 390 will be more powerful than the 361.

 

[skwerl]

460Ted, you are absolutely correct that Stihl blurs the lines between their pro and homeowner saws. They absolutely want the homeowners to believe they are getting 'pro power' for a reduced price. What they don't know will help Stihl sell more EPA approved saws at a good profit.

The experienced pros don't need to see the paper specs to know the difference.

 

[jokers]

It keeps a larger percentage of customers happy. The homeowners feel better because they got 'Stihl power and reliability' for cheap and the pros know which saws are the real pro saws. If the homeowners knew that the 029 was such a pig, do you think they would buy so many?

Skwerl is right, Stihl is playing the numbers game and keeping the homeowners happy. Stihl sells more consumer saws than pro saws so this is a significant market for them to please.

Russ

 

[16gauge]

MS 390 vs. MS 361

Ted, Now this is an interesting comparison (to me anyway). In the previous post you say that Stihl implies the 390 has more power than the 361 becuz of max bar length recommendation. The topic is how the specs can mislead the average joe buyer, right? Well looking at some of them: 390 is 64.1cc and 4.3 hp. The 361 shows 59cc and 4.4 hp. Maybe the 390 is more powerful. The extra 5 cc must give you something...maybe more torque...maybe more horseys with simple muffler mod?

I have run neither saw, but I have looked and handled both. If I needed a saw in this category I would choose the 361 over the 390, but for reasons other than power. But I can definitely see if someone needed a saw to pull a 24 inch b&c for storm clean-up, then put it away until the next storm, the 390 might be an excellent recommendation.

I would GUESS, based on the 9% diffence in displacement, 390 more torquey, 361 more peaky. Comments?

 

[460Ted]

This is where my knowlege of motorcycles comes in handy. lets say we look at a Suzuki GSX750 Katana, vs a GSX-R600. The displacement advantage goes to the Katana and one would think it would have more torque, but the GSX-R600 will out perform the Katana in every way. 750 Katana = 390,
GSX-R600 = 361.