Winch 101 Some Basics on Winch Ratings

[046]

looking at a 8,000lb hydraulic winch .... how do they compare to electric?

 

[MR4WD]

looking at a 8,000lb hydraulic winch .... how do they compare to electric?

It depends on the winch model. I think mine was braden or chelsea. Comparing something like those to even a 12,000 pound warn is like comparing a poulan to a big pro saw. I could hang my f-350 (dually) off of that deck winch even though it was only an 8000 pounder, but trying to get the same torque out of my m12000 is near impossible. Line speed had to be tripple under the same load and I had way more wire rope on the hydro winch.

Swamp Yankee: The reason I asked about hoists, is I'm sure years ago that I had an opportunity to get some 8274 LOOKING winches, but they were rated as hoists. They were around 3500 or 4000 pounds I think? Where as the similar looking winch was rated at 8000. I know I've never had good luck with any electric winch holding even half of it's rated load against the brakes.

 

[wkpoor]

I know I've never had good luck with any electric winch holding even half of it's rated load against the brakes.

Now that aspect of my MM E12K has been perfect. Seems to hold loads tight.

 

[046]

it's a Ramsey 8,000 hydraulic winch, driven by power steering pump. which means front bumper mount. no dual purpose using it to yank loads on to my trailer.

seems most sliding bed tow trucks use hydraulic winches..

It depends on the winch model. I think mine was braden or chelsea. Comparing something like those to even a 12,000 pound warn is like comparing a poulan to a big pro saw. I could hang my f-350 (dually) off of that deck winch even though it was only an 8000 pounder, but trying to get the same torque out of my m12000 is near impossible. Line speed had to be tripple under the same load and I had way more wire rope on the hydro winch.

Swamp Yankee: The reason I asked about hoists, is I'm sure years ago that I had an opportunity to get some 8274 LOOKING winches, but they were rated as hoists. They were around 3500 or 4000 pounds I think? Where as the similar looking winch was rated at 8000. I know I've never had good luck with any electric winch holding even half of it's rated load against the brakes.

 

[Swamp Yankee]

I want to mount it on the front and I'm open to whatever is the best way to power it.

Ideal set up for your application

A winch bumper holding a 8000 to 10000 lb worm drive with an extended output shaft that mounts a removable capstan head. A lot of utility and rescue vehicles use these set ups and they are slick. They're available in both electric and hydraulic. I always wanted to make on of them for my 89 F250 when I was doing logging and firewood big time. The capstan is great because it gives you a constant line pull without the loss of load created by adding a layer on the drum. They'll also pull forever as you never run out of wire rope capacity. Check Braden or Ramsey's website they both used to make them

As one of these is probably out of your price range I would get a 12 volt 10,000 to 12,000 lb worm drive. These are commercial quality gear boxes same as used on wrecker winches. Add a second battery and a decent isolator so you can charge both off the same alternator and you should be set to go.

A couple of words of caution on the worm drives. First always be sure there is enough oil in the wormbox. Running a worm set dry will seize and damage it beyond repair. Worm sets also need to be run in. Do not try to pull heavy lads at first. Pull a 500 lb load the full length of the rope 4 or 5 times. This allows the worm to burnish itself into the wheel.

Hope this helps
Take Care

 

[wkpoor]

Add a second battery and a decent isolator so you can charge both off the same alternator and you should be set to go.

I have 2 trailers each with its own battery and they charge off the truck with no isolator. Since the load is in parallel why the need for an isolator? It has yet to be an issue for me and I don't unplug the harness before I use the winch either. All I have is a 40Amp fuse in the charge line.

 

[Swamp Yankee]

wkpoor

The isolator is not a requirement with the second battery, but it dedicates whatever is on the second battery circuit to that battery while allowing the alternator to charge both. In short the winch under heavy use may pull the second battery down but the primary battery is kept out of the circuit so the vehicle will still start and its electronics won't be affected by low voltage. Had issues with low voltage codes when OBD came along. The truck companies were working on it as it also caused problems with the vehicle stationary and the PTO running.
Pulling a load of 200 to 250 amps continuous on a 12 volt winch under load is quite common especially if the leads are undersized or start heating up and adding resistance to an already taxed system. Even with the bigger alternators they can't keep up.

Hope this makes some sense.

Take Care

 

[wkpoor]

I think its because I keep a fully charged battery on the trailer that I have avoided problems. And I use on Optima. I can raise my dump fully loaded on just the trailer battery countless times.

 

[Garfield]

grapple truck

I am thinking more on this winch for the grapple truck on the grapple. Maybe I would be better served with a winch on the truck frame under the pedestal for the grapple. If I do this could I loop the cable under the truck frame to pull from either side? could I put a pulley up on the boom to accomplish the same thing as it being up there on the grapple? It is also right by the truck batteries so it would be easy to go electric or hydraulic. Thanks, your thoughts are appreciated.

 

[clearance]

I am thinking more on this winch for the grapple truck on the grapple. Maybe I would be better served with a winch on the truck frame under the pedestal for the grapple. If I do this could I loop the cable under the truck frame to pull from either side? could I put a pulley up on the boom to accomplish the same thing as it being up there on the grapple? It is also right by the truck batteries so it would be easy to go electric or hydraulic. Thanks, your thoughts are appreciated.

I have seen winches on self loaders working. The winch is mounted just in front of the self loaders pedastal. I have pulled the line which has a choker on it (knob and bell), the operator goes ahead on the line, but the line is moved up and around by the grapple. That is the line goes up from the the winch drum, through the closed grapple and way off the side to where the log is.

So, when the log is yarded close to the truck, the guy opens the grapple and the line drops, I un hook the choker, and the grapple loads the log. Must be hard on the cable running it over the grapple instead of through a block, but I guess it makes sense or they wouldn't do it.

Go hydraulic, electric winches are just not up to it.

 

[Garfield]

Winch location

Is it in front of the pedestal up on top mounted to the same plate the pedestal is or is it down on the truck frame?

 

[clearance]

Is it in front of the pedestal up on top mounted to the same plate the pedestal is or is it down on the truck frame?

Its where you can see it, above the frame, but not by much. Its been like 4 years since I worked with one, I just cut down the trees and stuff. So I may not be expalining the setup as well as I could. Ask the guys here that have log trucks, I am sure they can help.

 

[046]

Just did a craigslist score!

Ramsey RPH 8000 hydraulic winch for $150
came off of a wrecked roll back... now gotta figure out how to hook it up...

 

[Wet1]

Sounds like a good deal for $150.

 

[Swamp Yankee]

046

You're from Oklahoma, the winch capitol of the world. I think 1/2 the industrial quality winches made are manufactured in the Tulsa area.

Anyway that Ramsey is a single stage planetary with IIRC a 6.5:1 ratio. The planet carrier is part of the drum. The sun gear drives both the planetary and the brake. The gearbox is grease lubed but the brake on the end is an oil filled design for heat dispersion. Use the screw on the end to adjust the brake.

The RPH is a directional winch. Care must be taken when mounting it. The brake has a one way clutch so it freespools in the winch in direction but drags and is actually powered through in the cable out direction. This means even if powering the wire rope out at no load the is still the load of the brake or about 4000 lbs to be overcome. The motor also has a counterbalance valve mounted. This valve puts a back pressure on the motor and prevents it from overspeeding and cavitating from the load back driving in the cable out direction. These functions may be reversed if need be by moving the valve to the other port and changing the drive direction in the brake.
All this means is you must be sure the cable is winding on the drum in the correct direction. There should be a label with an arrow indicating drum rotation for winch in. Be sure to get this correct or you'll burn the brake and overheat the hydraulics.

The preferred mounting method is a rail mount using the sets of bolt holes in the castings along the center line of the drum. This transfers most of the line load in compression to the mounting system and reduces the moment distance between the load and the mounting bolts.

That's a good simple well made planetary winch. It was never a great puller but more than adequate for the sub 4000 lb line pull market foer which it was targeted. You're probably going to need about 8 to 10 gpm @ 2500 psi for it to work at it's best.

Hope this helps.

Good Luck and Take Care

 

[wkpoor]

That's a good simple well made planetary winch. It was never a great puller but more than adequate for the sub 4000 lb line pull market foer which it was targeted. You're probably going to need about 8 to 10 gpm @ 2500 psi for it to work at it's best.

Doesn't sound like enough winch for recovery applications that most roll backs get into at times.

 

[ropensaddle]

I love my braden pto winch on my bucket, bad stout it is 40000 I believe!
It either comes or something breaks but does not stall like elect or hydraulic.
I can uproot a 22" tree with the cable 20' up the stem!

 

[046]

so that's why there's so many winches available locally....

there's constantly huge winches available on tulsa craigslist.
I always though it was due to all the oil field equipment around here...

thanks for all the info on the Ramsey 8,000 lb hydraulic winch

046

You're from Oklahoma, the winch capitol of the world. I think 1/2 the industrial quality winches made are manufactured in the Tulsa area.

 

[clearance]

Gonna stick a new cable on the old Ramsey 8k pto unit. Pto, what power.

 

[Swamp Yankee]

so that's why there's so many winches available locally....

there's constantly huge winches available on tulsa craigslist.
I always though it was due to all the oil field equipment around here...

thanks for all the info on the Ramsey 8,000 lb hydraulic winch

You're right.
That's why the industry started in that area years ago to service the oil fields in Oklahoma and Texas.

Take Care