Winches - Public apology - they're good!

[Hddnis]

Yeah it's amazing how you can get used to how a machine is supposed to "feel", and then know right away when something is even slightly wrong. Sitting in my operator's booth at the sawmill, I can tell you if the chipping head knives or edger saws are dull, or there's a feedroll or conveyor belt/chain acting funky just because it makes the mill sound different or my booth shake/vibrate differently when it's feeding. It takes a while to get that familiar with things, and many operators don't even try to take the time, but that's what separates the good from the bad IMO.

A real good example too. You ever go home and have dreams where something is wrong on the machine and it wakes you up?

When I was climbing everyday I would do that. I'd be dreaming that the wind had come up suddenly after I've finished a face cut. When I'd wake up I'd discover that the wind had started blowing outside and I could hear it and it became part of my dreams.

One time after working all night at my other job I was sleeping late and dreamt that my chainsaw had something wrong with it. When I woke up I realized that I could hear my wife running the coffee grinder.



Mr. HE

 

[BobL]

I've been watching this winch idea, and I'm wondering if there would be a benefit to adding a long spring to the rope assembly... like a screen door spring that has lots of stretch... and also a ratchet like a boat winch has. Just a thought to see what others think of it... my thought is that you could get a "relatively" constant pressure with the spring, and winding the winch every 4 or 5 inches. This would allow you to keep your hands on the mill, and if you want to pull the mill back if the saw bogs, you can just pull against the spring a bit.

Maybe too complicated, but just some thoughts I thought I'd throw out there for others to ponder / disprove.

Page 48 of Malloff's book shows him using something that looks like a small boat winch (without a ratchet) that pulls on the outboard bar clamp and saw (as I have suggested in the past) and not on the mill rails. There is a picture of him standing up at the other end of the log (not smoking a pipe) winching the saw through. He even builds the remote throttle into the winch action ie the throttle goes to WOT before the winch full engages.

I'd though about using springs to create a constant tension but what is really needed is variable tension as the log width changes, and the chain gets blunt etc.

 

[SPM in King]

The spring idea has some merit. I find that the there is a constant "play" between too much and too little pressure on the winch for me to be able to take my hand off the winch handle. When cutting large hardwoods, the winch line I use stretches and acts like a spring, but not to the extent discussed earlier. It would take nothing much to try it out though.

Page 48 of Malloff's book shows him using something that looks like a small boat winch

I would like to the see this picture. Can you post it?

 

[BobL]

I would like to the see this picture. Can you post it?

There are 3 pics of him using the winch. This one is probably the best one because you can see his simple remote throttle setup.

See how he's using weight to hold the mill down - now all he needs to do is lift that log onto a slope and he wouldn't need the winch at all.

His book has a whole chapter on using a winch.
See how he has shortened the outboard line to twist the mill a little so the mill slides along on the trailing end of the inboard skids, so the mill is less likely to snag on the side of the log.

 

[Old Hilly]

Looks to me like the winch rope also controls the throttle on the saw. If I am not mistaken there is a spring conected to the outer end of that piece of flat-bar. The bar pivots near the end of the handle and the inner end holds the throttle trigger in the fast position. Slacken off the cable and the throttle will be released so that the engine will drop back to idle. Tighten up the cable and the throttle will come to to full revs before the saw starts to move.
Very sneaky.

 

[BobL]

Looks to me like the winch rope also controls the throttle on the saw. If I am not mistaken there is a spring conected to the outer end of that piece of flat-bar. The bar pivots near the end of the handle and the inner end holds the throttle trigger in the fast position. Slacken off the cable and the throttle will be released so that the engine will drop back to idle. Tighten up the cable and the throttle will come to to full revs before the saw starts to move.
Very sneaky.

The spring is a piece or rubber tubing.

 

[DaltonPaull]

One could take this idea way too far and add a Y-axis feed screw to the guide rail and have a micro-controller monitor the saw RPM and feed the mill along at whatever rate is required to keep the saw running at the desired speed. All you would have to do is sit back and drive a few wedges while the saw does the work.

 

[discounthunter]

you would then have a self feeding bandsaw,lol im not against any of these ideas or improvements but when one sits back looks at the basic design of a Mark3, then looks at all the add ons (and weight) its sometimes funny. we as humans strive to improve things to the point we take a 35-40lb mill and end up with a 70lb monster(bob,lol)

but ill state again im not against any of this ,im for it,just making an observation.

 

[BobL]

you would then have a self feeding bandsaw,lol im not against any of these ideas or improvements but when one sits back looks at the basic design of a Mark3, then looks at all the add ons (and weight) its sometimes funny. we as humans strive to improve things to the point we take a 35-40lb mill and end up with a 70lb monster(bob,lol)

but ill state again im not against any of this ,im for it,just making an observation.

Yeah - sometimes we lose track of how far we go in our attempts to do whatever we think it is we are doing.

This is the last home made plane that James Krenov made.

And yet we are prepared to spend a lot of money on tools like this.

I started CS milling because I wanted to access unusual timbers to make wood working hand tool handles. In practice all I needed was a 50 cc CS and a mini mill but the tool making bug took over and within 12 months I'm messing with 100cc+ saws and 60" bars. For some people it's the journey rather than the final product and unlike most CS millers, CS mill design and making has become for me an end in itself. I have told many folk that I would not care all that much if all the wood I have milled were to disappear I'm having a lot of fun messing with mill design. Various gizmos (like water cooling) come and go over time and it's interesting to see what survives.

 

[gunnarfan]

i'm looking for those mallof shots that are more current where he mounts the saw to a rail and plunge cuts his timber like diamonds.

for the winch thing. i've been looking at a few on here. I also have a pretty long acme rod that under the right circumstances could be fun on a mill.. i might save it for a bandsaw idea that i have...