Wires

[Greener]

You'll be fine. Just make sure you do it first thing in the morning with a heavy dew on or better yet after a good rain. And shake the tree as much as possible while you're going up.

Seriously, if you have to ask, stay away. Don't know about your area, but you can be prosecuted by our local power company just for trimming a tree within 15 of a primary without the proper training.

Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk 2

Does this mean even if I stay away, I still shouldn't ask the question?

 

[treeclimber101]

Hardwoods make poor service poles because they don't grow tall, thin, and strong with little branching. The choice to use conifers is not based at all on conductivity. It's all about using the best tree for the job. Since there are large conifer forests filled with suitable poles that require only modest processing, that makes them the best choice.

Besides, I have watched big HV power streaming down the entire length of a power pole during icing events. It was carbonizing the path it was flowing to ground with, and the entire pole seemed to become a conductor. No emergency services on site, 911 wouldn't even answer the phone, I got to watch it for about 15 minutes. I don't think the variety of tree the pole was made with had anything to do with it's conductivity.

Man your a tuff nut to crack sometimes man , honestly though your wrong there are plenty of abundant hardwoods to use , conifers are a non porous wood there for ideal for there use and your right straight with relatively small branching , and as far as the dried out stripped pole comment around here I have seen them still dripping water fresh enough to still see some bark here and there , we could grow trees like gum and ash in the same pole nurseries as where grow spruce
Very few of what we use now pop up outta the woods ...

 

[treemandan]

EHAP card in pocket......

But I agree, it's a rather muddy discussion. It's very difficult to predict if/how much voltage will be transmitted in any given situation.




Thank you for clearing that up... well, I guess its still not clear is it?

You can take all the theories about what conducts and what don't right to yer grave.

 

[treeclimber101]

Does this mean even if I stay away, I still shouldn't ask the question?

I don't think any question in the 101 section is a stupid one and honestly if you have an understanding of what your dealing with you will be fine , and its better for you and much safer to educate yourself and make educated calls knowing your capabilities are really important. I mean I limit myself to what I am sure I can do safely , and when I get a bad feeling about something I stop and explore any other option available to , that's why I have my buddys number who works for Davey tatooed in my brain ... When I call him I know for 100.00 bucks an hour things will be done . And honestly it completely removes any liability on my end

 

[pdqdl]

pdqdl: Your third response here should have been your one and only response to my op. I did not do this tree job, nor did I have any intention of doing so, nor would I use the information from this site as any basis for how I operate in my work, especially outside of my scope. Just a question I wanted to put out there.

Greener, it sounds to me like all you have been doing is posting questions to stir up trouble. I noted your lack of response or follow-up early in this thread.

My third statement in the post you quoted was an answer to a question you did not post; therefore it should not have been my only post in this thread. Don't be such an egotist that you think you own the thread or control the topic. You sound like you are chastising me for my opinions and statements in this thread.

If you were seriously looking for an answer, as you claim to be by "Just a question I wanted to put out there", then you should have been quite satisfied with my first answer. The first thing I posted was a direct answer, then I described a scenario whereby you could get fried with electricity from a primary beneath you.

Of course, since it appears that you were only trolling, a simple answer wasn't what you were looking for, was it?

 

[pdqdl]

wood is not a natural conductor , that is why we use non porous trees for service poles and not hardwoods , being electrocuted climbing something like a red oak will be alot more common then lets say a Blue spruce ...

I think you are a bit mistaken about the purpose of a service pole. They are not there to provide any insulation whatsoever. That is why they hang the wires on insulators.

The only real purpose of the poles is to elevate the wires as safely and reliably as possible, at a minimum expense. Porosity, if that is truly any consideration for the variety of tree selected, would most likely be for improved permeability to the creosote impregnation process that lengthens the service life of the poles. Quite frankly, I have never been involved with the selection process for any timber for use as a power pole; I doubt if those folks participate in this forum very much.

If insulating properties were any part of the consideration, why are so many power transmission towers built with steel?

 

[ddhlakebound]

Thank you for clearing that up... well, I guess its still not clear is it?

You can take all the theories about what conducts and what don't right to yer grave.

Only read half? Er what?

You quoted this.....

EHAP card in pocket......

But I agree, it's a rather muddy discussion. It's very difficult to predict if/how much voltage will be transmitted in any given situation.

and left out this......

I only replied because unless you can predict with accuracy what's going to happen, it's best to avoid that set of variables all together. When you're in the position of actually finding out whether or not voltage will be transmitted, and how much, with your ass strapped to the tree, you're mostly down to luck at that point.

But thanks anyway.....it's nice to know people care.

 

[ATH]

Poles are almost always pine mostly because of strength, size, and, and weight.

And just so you know I am making stuff up, check out chapter 18 of the "Wood Handbood: Wood as an Engineering Material":
Hardwood species can be used for poles when the trees are of
suitable size and form; their use is limited, however, by their
weight, by their excessive checking, and because of the lack
of experience in preservative treatment of hardwoods. Thus,
most poles are softwoods.
The Southern Pine lumber group (principally loblolly,
longleaf, shortleaf, and slash) accounts for roughly 80% of
poles treated in the United States. Three traits of these pines
account for their extensive use: thick and easily treated sapwood,
favorable strength properties and form, and availability
in popular pole sizes.

Oh...and it was many years ago, but I did work in southern pine plantations, and have been in the woods with a pole buyer

 

[ATH]

There's been a lot of that going on lately, my power just came back on today.

How big was the branch BTW?

Was your power out from the Friday windstorm (a week ago Friday)? Most of our town came back online Thursday. I think almost all customers were on Saturday. (we were only down a couple of hours).

The honey locust branch that fell on the service drop was probably 10-12" in diameter. I didn't see the full thing in one piece, but from what was laying on the ground among other branches from who-knows-which-tree I think it was probably 20-25' in length.

 

[pdqdl]

Poles are almost always pine mostly because of strength, size, and, and weight.

And just so you know I am making stuff up, check out chapter 18 of the "Wood Handbood: Wood as an Engineering Material":
Hardwood species can be used for poles when the trees are of
suitable size and form; their use is limited, however, by their
weight, by their excessive checking, and because of the lack
of experience in preservative treatment of hardwoods.

... I did work in southern pine plantations, and have been in the woods with a pole buyer

That's what I like about this site. There is an unbelievable range of talent, experience, and knowledge among the members. If you want to know something, just put up a comment or question, and someone will probably know the answer.

Thanks for the support, by the way. I knew that preservation treatments had to be one of the biggest considerations for type of tree used.

 

[treeclimber101]

I think you are a bit mistaken about the purpose of a service pole. They are not there to provide any insulation whatsoever. That is why they hang the wires on insulators.

The only real purpose of the poles is to elevate the wires as safely and reliably as possible, at a minimum expense. Porosity, if that is truly any consideration for the variety of tree selected, would most likely be for improved permeability to the creosote impregnation process that lengthens the service life of the poles. Quite frankly, I have never been involved with the selection process for any timber for use as a power pole; I doubt if those folks participate in this forum very much.

If insulating properties were any part of the consideration, why are so many power transmission towers built with steel?

Are you serious right now ? I mean how can you make a jump from that to that ? stay on the topic we'll talk towers somewhere else :hmm3grin2orange:

 

[pdqdl]

Topic is dead. Greener was just trolling us. I moved onto something more fun.

I don't think I have ever seen a thread discussing the topic of electric conductance in different trees, porosity of wood for power poles, nor wood preservation of poles. So...this is all interesting to me.

 

[treeclimber101]

Topic is dead. Greener was just trolling us. I moved onto something more fun.

I don't think I have ever seen a thread discussing the topic of electric conductance in different trees, porosity of wood for power poles, nor wood preservation of poles. So...this is all interesting to me.

is it porosity or porousness now I thinlk your just making #### up. LOL and greener may have gotten cold fingers asking a question now your hounding him like a dofg with forosity or forousness....

 

[pdqdl]

I never make #### up.

porosity: Porosity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Porousness" would be the adjective form of the root word "porous"; essentially that would be non-technical lingo for porosity. Porous itself is an adjective, so porousness is not really often used properly. I guess it might be defined as "the state of being porous".

 

[pdqdl]

Besides, greener asked for it. He essentially told me to shut up, and that I should not have responded to his question.

Somebody does me that way after asking a newbie question deserves to understand that is not how to make friends at AS.

 

[Carburetorless]

I'm starting to like the 10' rule a lot better now.

 

[pdqdl]

Why is that? I'm curious.

I used to like the 10' rule, but I can't get the utility tree services to do anything anymore. I have had two trees scheduled for removal since mid-april. As best I can tell, they have never even looked at them.

All I asked for was to "make-safe". This was two pin oaks that are towering over some back-yard primaries. I don't know the voltage, but I would guess 14.4k; there are three of them.

The 10' rule has no real meaning for me anymore. We know we can't get very close, but we also know we can't get the utility to do anything for us. Absolutely NOTHING. The tree services won't even answer the phone anymore; you have to call the main line, get an ignorant operator that takes a report, then they make banal, vacuous statements about how they can only pass on the request.

I think I'm going to start climbing trees, cut a branch off to straddle the primaries, then leave real quick before they catch me there. I'll bet they start responding then.

 

[treeclimber101]

Why is that? I'm curious.

I used to like the 10' rule, but I can't get the utility tree services to do anything anymore. I have had two trees scheduled for removal since mid-april. As best I can tell, they have never even looked at them.

All I asked for was to "make-safe". This was two pin oaks that are towering over some back-yard primaries. I don't know the voltage, but I would guess 14.4k; there are three of them.

The 10' rule has no real meaning for me anymore. We know we can't get very close, but we also know we can't get the utility to do anything for us. Absolutely NOTHING. The tree services won't even answer the phone anymore; you have to call the main line, get an ignorant operator that takes a report, then they make banal, vacuous statements about how they can only pass on the request.

I think I'm going to start climbing trees, cut a branch off to straddle the primaries, then leave real quick before they catch me there. I'll bet they start responding then.

That's funny when I call they come , maybe they have caller Id and know its you , you can be a bit abrasive at times ..:msp_w00t:

 

[pdqdl]

You think I'm abrasive here, you should have heard me putting in a call last week. The operator denied that KCPL never responded timely, and I started asking her to check on all my open tickets. She tried to correct my abusive language, but nothing I said was profane, it was just...abrasive.

She pretty much surrendered after she couldn't tell me why they were ignoring a two month old ticket. I don't think my call did me any good.

 

[treemandan]

Only read half? Er what?

You quoted this.....

and left out this......

But thanks anyway.....it's nice to know people care.

I just copied your basic idea then made an obcsure comment expounding the facts about how unlcear electric theory is. I think this basic idea is probably the most important to keep in mind while working around power. Besides the theory being vague the actuall jobsite contains much of unknown and unrecognized hazzards.
Someone trained with proper gear has better chance. :msp_thumbup: