Wonder if this is common practice

[Lumberjack]

SRT to the top= no fighting No need to isolate limbs, just up you go. Get to the top, reset the line to work down on SRT (using I'd) with a running bowline choked around the top. Set a pull line in the top if its needed, pull it out. Then come down with your lanyard around the trunk and come down zipping off limbs. Hangers dont matter because you have infinate room beneath you. Get to the bottom and (assuming the spar is neutural in lean) use your climbing rope to pull it over.

Like I said, it is very rare that I can do this due to the lack of a proper sized DZ and the fact that I never get to cut and leave the mess. But when I do, its very fast for me at least. But then again I already have the gear for SRT ascention and working off SRT. I have done a few 100'+ tall pines in under 30 minutes rolling on to rolling off the job, but man what a mess for someone to clean up.

 

[Old Monkey]

I learned to do it like Clearance described from the bottom up. I value my ground help and by varying my types of cuts try to face all of the butts ends of branches towards the chipper. It gets to be quite challenging and fun the higher you go. As for the top, the only modification to what Clearance said is that I score the bark all around at the level of my face cut before I put my back cut in to avoid tear out.

 

[Mike Barcaskey]

Lumberjack, you seem to take exception to a number of things
(several should be objected too)

let me pose one to you. I would NEVER pull a spar over with my climbing rope.
sometimes that rope gets under the spar and is buried into the ground.

if you're too lazy to haul up a second bull rope to pull over the spar than you're a hack
INMSHO that's as important as the notch

You know how this board is

 

[Brock2saws]

Hangers dont matter because you have infinate room beneath you.

I don't get the "infinate [sic] room" comment. If they're hangers, they're hanging in the tree and I can imagine that as they pile up, the weight would make cutting many of the lower limbs more dangerous than otherwise.

I dunno, I guess it doesn't matter in the end if you start at the top or bottom if you don't have to clean it up.

I don't SRT, so I always clear 'em from the bottom up.

BAB

 

[Lumberjack]

let me pose one to you. I would NEVER pull a spar over with my climbing rope.
sometimes that rope gets under the spar and is buried into the ground.

if you're too lazy to haul up a second bull rope to pull over the spar than you're a hack
INMSHO that's as important as the notch

You know how this board is

I dont see a problem pulling over a small neutural lean spar that one groundie can pull over by himself.

In climbing I may pull 3g's during some part of my climbing, or perhaps more when bouncing on SRT. Since I weigh around 220 coming out of the shower, 3 times my loaded (geared up) weight is around 750 pounds. If one groundy weighs 200 pounds, and can pull 80% of his weight thats only 160 pounds.

This is not my normal practice, like I said, its RARE that I have a tree with enough room to work top down, the trunk is of neutural lean, and small enough for one man to pull over. Now that I think about it I have never had a tree that I have pulled over with my climbing lines. The trees have never been small enough for one person to pull over.

I DO NOT use my climbing line for rigging, however I would think that using your climbing rope inside the 10% rule (10%MBS including any dynamic loads) would be less hackdom than not using a notch to pull a spar. When you use no notch you have basically NO control over the trees path.

One trick I use is tying the running bowline around the spar, then rotating the bowline to the backside of the spar so that when it lands the knot will be faceing up.

On the top down method, not all the limbs will get caught up. Cutting the bottoms limbs isnt dangerous in my mind as long as you use your head.

But like I said, its been a while since I have had a tree I could work bottom up. Think the last one was over a year ago.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Bottoms up, 'bout near always!

 

[Mike Barcaskey]

Lumberjack, I meant no disrespect in my post and I would like to thank you for your polite reply

On one hand I wanted to point out the absurdity of some of the ideas on here that some folks use to label others a hack

On the other, I do think it's bad practice to use your climbing rope for anything other than climbing.
If it hits the ground under the spar, there's some dirt/sand/other abrasives that are forced into the weave

when I was big into climbing and rappeling, the rule was NEVER step on my ropes, you're grinding abrasives into the weave

and no, outside of the facetious of my above post, I don't think anyone who uses their climbing rope to pull over a spar is a hack

 

[topnotchtree]

I am not gonna say I never do, but I try not to pull anything over with my climbing line. As Mike said it has nothing to do with the pulling strength of the rope, but more along the lines of not damaging the rope upon impact. Lumberjack, I like your idea of spinning the knot to the backside of spar. I do that often myself. I usually flip the pull line up over the top of the spar, sometimes cutting little grooves in the spar to keep it in place.

 

[WMTP]

Climb it with spurs and a single steel-core lanyard. Cut the branches and chuck them into a good position to drag them, blow off the top, leave a few stubs or cut a vee. Tie in with a tautline, rappel down, tie a running bowline, pull it up, undercut, get your groundsman to pull, backcut. On the ground, end of story, done it so many times, I can't remember a problem.

Thats the way I learned it and always been real good to me be to each there own I have never done or seen anyone start at the top seems to me you would have hangers up the a@# you know. And I have worked on some pines with branches that would be in the way more than i would like when lettin the top fly.As for the no notch thing that is just stupid to much can happen with no notch and hinge wood to control. :Monkey:

 

[rahtreelimbs]

But like I said, its been a while since I have had a tree I could work bottom up. Think the last one was over a year ago.

I don't see the difference. What difference does it make whether you work top down or bottom up? Provided the DZ is the right size.

 

[MasterBlaster]

What difference does it make whether you work top down or bottom up?

Geez dood, it makes a world of difference. Climb out a few hairy TD's, and you might start to understand.

 

[rahtreelimbs]

Geez dood, it makes a world of difference. Climb out a few hairy TD's, and you might start to understand.

I thought we were talking specifically pines and spruces here.


No need Butch to explain Butch, I fully understand what you are after here!

 

[MasterBlaster]

"After here?"

 

[Lumberjack]

when I was big into climbing and rappeling, the rule was NEVER step on my ropes, you're grinding abrasives into the weave

and no, outside of the facetious of my above post, I don't think anyone who uses their climbing rope to pull over a spar is a hack

When I was a repelling instructor, anyone who stepped on the rope had to do 25 pushups.

Now that I am into arboriculture, it doesnt bother me in most circumstances, assuming the groundies arent standing on it. They understand the idea about keeping the ropes clean. However, think about the grit that gets worked into a climbing line as it runs over the TIP.



Rich, with my setup it is faster for me to get the tree on the ground working top down (assuming its a pine) because I can use my BS to set the line in the top running however it wants assuming its next to the trunk. SRT up to the top. Reset the rope to work off of DdRT (or SRT if you have a device to work off of it, like the I'd). Wrap your lanyard around the tree, and take out any limbs that are within reach in the direction you want the top to go. Set a pull line in the top and pull it out. Reset a pull line at the top of the spar. Then come down cutting off limbs all around the tree. Get to the bottom and fell the spar.

My therory is its easier to remove a limb if your above it, because you just let them fall and your coming down, letting gravity work for you. Its faster for me to come down zipping off each limb instead of working up pausing to take off each limb on the way up, then coming back down. Not all the limbs will get caught up, and when you get to the bottom one it dumps all the rest, a snap cut works good to release the pressure safely.

This might be a time when I worked off of one tie in (just depends) because all the cutting is down by my feet, by the unloaded tail of my rope.

 

[NickfromWI]

Can the ground guys see whats coming down where when you start at the top?

 

[Lumberjack]

Can the ground guys see whats coming down where when you start at the top?

Missing the idea, the ground guys pull the top out, then stand clear, no cleanup on these jobs.

But no, the working under the hangers wouldnt be safe. When coming down they need to stand way back incase a limb bouces.

 

[Mike Barcaskey]

as I work from the bottom up on a spruce, I expect the groundies to keep up with me.
When I get to the top, ready to take the top off, all the branches should be through the chipper. As I come down chunking, its all loaded in the truck.
When I hit bottom, all that's left is a 6 foot stump, or any other size stump I decide.
If you're doing a leave all, maybe top-down
but if you're cleaning up I would think a top-down job would make a mess and take more ground time

 

[Old Monkey]

Any of you guys ever tried climbing a fat tree using double fliplines? I did some redwoods with an eighteen foot wire coreline and a 24' braided rope flipline. At the bottom the 24 footer didn't make it all the way around, so I had to hold the clip until I was about 15' up. The braided rope flipline was an inch or better and had a good feel to it. The first tree I did like this kicked my a$$. Fell asleep the moment I got through the door. It was a trim and I spiked it-redwood bark is thick and my spurs were nowhere close to penetrating the wood. Say what you will about my methods, its what I was taught. It took me all day to trim, it was a bit taller than 200'. I couldn't see the ground for the longest time. Its pretty cool up there.

 

[Lumberjack]

Top down would swamp the groudies, I am the same as you, when I hit the ground they should be cutting up the top.

Old monkey, SRT works well for long ascents.

 

[Old Monkey]

I'm simple, whats SRT? Ascenders or a pulley system for groundies to pull you up? I like the challenge of coring up big trees, but I'm not allergic to better ideas. I wonder about affixing a line in a redwood though, most have downsloping branches that make setting a climbline a little trickier.