Woods 044 for sale

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All the modern kart guys run motors with heads, even the 4stroke motors. It's for the adjustablity of the compression, just like the older mac's. Remember the copper head gaskets?
I wouldn't run a mac today because of mostly the weight, but don't count out the engine design, it's very good technology and was developed in the 50's and 60's. Believe it or not, it will run it's best with a removeable head.
 
those kart guys running 125s are doing it because they dont have 101s If one piece heads were the way to go ,then why do all motorcycles have removeable heads and all weedeaters have one piece heads Also most early non kart Macs had removable heads and most of them still run 50 years later Lets see how many 20 year old huskys or stihls that still run
 
McCulloch,again

Let me in.Let me in. :) From the stand point of resleeving ,or porting,a removable head,is much easier,I can tell you from experiance.As far as the kart engines,a stock 125 is 7.5 to 1 compression ratio.A 101 ,is 9.5 to 1.Back in the kart days,they just installed a Wiseco ,high comp piston,and recut the ports.Most serious karters had several engines,because they would only be good for about 10 or so races,if that many.I would say that a racing 101,would not last on a saw,that is used hard,for very long,but while it ran,it would sure eat the wood. :)
 
Also if you look at the mix oil they ran then and the mix oil they run now Also cast sleave compared to chrome sleave The new saw should out last any old saw I have a stock 101a that probably has 5 to 10 seasons on it and it still runs good and I have a 066 with 3 seasons on it and that saw is flat wore out and if that saw could see the logs the 101a cut, the 066 would sh!t on its self :D
 
LJS said:
There is a reason for a one piece cylinder design, it's much cheaper to manufacture, and this is what your doing.
Do you have any documentation showing that a one-piece head is cheaper to manufacture? From what I understand, they are more difficult to machine.
 
The saw manufactures prove that it is the cheaper way to go You have one casting to machine not two castings Also the price per casting A blind bore is not hard to machine if you have the right equipment If you look at the inside of a saw jug you will see that they only have to bore and plate the cylinder no chamber work no head mounting holes and threads and no gasket
 
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Macman- those early Mac saws that have removable heads don't run at the same RPM as modern saws do. I believe a bone stock 1-43 only topped out at 6,500 max, whereas an 044 straight off the line is tuned to 13,500, so it's like apples and oranges. Even a 101AA straight off the line was only tuned for 9,500 rpm and a Power Bee 820 was the same. The kart guys I know are developing the 125 motor because of its longevity. The 101 is a far superior performing engine, no one ever said differently, but it will not last as long as a 125 in the woods, there's just no question. Plus like Al pointed out, there's big differences in compression and port timing. And comparing motorcycle engines to saw engines is pretty much whacked. Motorcycle engines are a completely different animal.

Dennis Cahoon ran kart saws and he said he was lucky to get 30 days out of one, but it was a screaming 30 days. My dad ran kart saws for almost ten years and had to rebuild one about every 240 hours of operation, and for a woods saw that isn't much. By contrast I had a Husky 288 that lasted over 2,000 hours before it blew up. We get about 6 years out of a 044/440/460/046 on the landing, and those saws see the hardest use of any hand held chainsaw on the planet.
 
how many times do you rebuild the landing saws in 6 years Also a 044 compared to a 101 is a bad example 71cc to 123cc which one do you think will turn more rpm How many rpm did a 090 turn or 084 alot lower than 13,500 A stock 101b will turn 10,000rpm in the cut what does a 084 pull in the cut And most of the engine failiers of the old saws was due to carbon build up from poor mix oil it would come loose and scare a piston and rings just think if they had thick rings how long they would last with good oil! I have a 101b that has 10 years worth of hot saw racing on BIG LOGS and it only took a set of rings to bring it up to competitive level again lets see a 084 hot saw with a pipe and 10 years worth of racing on it and only needing rings
 
Our landing saws will go through one set of bearings and maybe one set of rings and multiple carb rebuilds in that six years. At six years, they've usually blown the big end connecting rod bearing.

The two saws I compared, The Mac 1-43 and a Stihl 044, are similar in displacement. The 1-43 was only 70cc. The 044 is 70.7cc, so that's a fair comparison. The 1-43 was designated as such because it produced 4.3 standard horsepower, and the 044 measured standard at 4.4 horse. I did not compare a Mac 101 and an 044. Plus, chainsaw racing is a far different animal than being in the woods for 6-7 hours a day, 5-6 days a week all year long. Racing cuts last a few seconds, falling a 90" Doug fir could take an hour or more.

All of these saws have their place to be sure; but in the woods it's going to be the most durable saw that wins, because it's not feasible for a cutter to have to tear a saw down every 30 days and rebuild it- no matter what kind of performance they get out of it. You won't meet a timber faller, firefighter, thinning crew, arborist, or firewood cutter that says otherwise.
 
1-43 is a low rpm 80 cc saw not 70 cc I have one and it is slow but it is 40 years old and still on the original rings Try a 1959 Mac super44 it was rated at 6.2 hp and turned 12,500 pretty good for 1959! I have one it rips With the same chain it will cut with a 044 or 046 But I rather carry the 044 or 046 I know that Timber fellers,Fire fighters,thinning crews,and arborist dont get 6 years out of one set of rings, most loggers buy a new saw every year if they dont want down time
 
Super 44A

Well,we are getting off J.J.'s theme,but it is interesting.I have a Super 44a,that I've bypassed the gov.,and the old duffer will really cut,tough to start,with the hold down choke,though.I saw an original ad,that states 6.5 HP,but I didn't believe it.Might be true ,though.Good luck selling your saw Jason.
 
Oh,If I'm not mistaken[I am quite often],I think a super 44a,is in reality a variation,of the Mc 10 kart engine.
 
Back to jacobs saw Im shure it is a good saw and worth the price This thread is just realy starting to get good
 
Why are you cutting the dome on the piston? To add compression, right. Is this gonna make your saw last longer? No! If you design a head with an efficient combustion chamber and cc your head for the compression ratio you want, and set your squish, your woods saw will run excellent. Same old story though, what figures do I use? That's where you run into problems, but you can adjust all those figures easy with a removeable head. Just the way you cut the dome of the piston limits your plan,and possible piston problems. You've also retarded your exhaust and advanced your intake by cutting the bottom of your cylinder. That can be reshaped but, more work, and do you want that much timing on your intake? Can't use a stock piston anymore, either. So anyway, there lots of ways to skin a cat, just trying open your eyes. Later LJS
 
I've built around 600 saws, give or take 20, in the last 15 years. I've tried every configuration imagineable, including removeable heads. When you make engine components separate, i.e. removeable head, that allows those components, even if they're made of the same material, to expand and contract at different rates. Even a one-piece jug expands more at the compression ring than it does at the base. This is one reason why the bore is cylindrical, rather than a straight tube. As for retarding the exhaust you recut those figures by raising the exhaust port, and advancing the intake timing is a desirable thing in a modified saw. Plus, if a user wants to go back to using a stock piston in one my saws, it's not a problem- simply return the stock base gasket under the cylinder and install a stock piston. I don't run tolerances so closely as to totally void any stock design. You need to have at least .025" clearance between the piston crown and the compression band for a durable working saw, I run mine at .030". I've seen stock saws vary between .045" and .070".

The removeable head on a modern saw has already been tested by multiple users, saws that were built by high quality shops like Baughmann's and Walker's. The removeable head design on a small, lightweight modern saw just will not last as long as the original one-piece cylinder. Period. It doesn't dissipate heat fast enough regardless of your gas and oil set-up and it will not take the abuse of pro timber falling or landing use day after day, even if you make the CC twice the size of a standard race set-up. For a woods saw, simplicity is best. Keep the number of moving parts and bolt-together items at the very minimum. Talk to any saw builder, pro or semi-pro, and you'll get the same answer.

As for the 'pop-up' part of this set-up, it does not hinder scavenging in any way. In fact, it helps exhaust scavenging slightly and also helps the spread of the charge after firing.
Many manufacturers have been making factory domed pistons for years- Stihl 028 Super, 024 Super, 026 Pro, MS 260, 038 Super, 045 Super, 056 Super, 056 Magnum, Sachs 143 and 166, McCulloch 44 Super, Husqvarna L-65, 285, Partner R-7000 to name a few models.

Here's another thing you've missed- anytime you lighten the reciprocating assembly, within the allowable inertia requirements to keep the saw running at an idle, you make more power available for the saw to produce at the PTO, because the engine is doing less work to function. There's a balance you have to strike in there to be sure, but less weight is better in a smaller, high speed engine. That is if you don't compromise the structural integrity of the assembly. Older saws, especially gear drives, used heavy pistons and cranks with heavy throws to maintain intertia which helped develop more torque at a lower RPM ( and big, heavy flywheels too ). Modern saws rely more on the power of combustible fuels and higher flow rates to develop horsepower. Another thing to remember is that modern saw cylinders are very thin, unlike 2-cycle engines in other applications- motorcycles, watercraft, pumps, etc.

The older saws like the Macs had thick, heavy cylinders and crankcases which left more room for error and design flaws among other things. McCulloch, Homelite, I.E.L., and Mall all tried various ways- starting with a design much like modern saw production- 2 crankcase halves with a bolt-on cylinder. Then they moved to the crankcase halves, bolt-on cylinder, and bolt-on head. Then they went to the intregral cylinder/crankcase one piece design, like a Mac 795- and with that some used the bolt-on head with the integral one-piece cylinder/crankcase like the kart engines. Eventually all saw makers went back to the crankcase halves and bolt-on cylinder design, both for cost and durability. Not all manufacturing decisions are exclusively based on profit concerns- they have to make a somewhat durable product so people will buy their stuff.

I think Stihl hit on the ultimate big saw design with the 090- The main portion of the case is one-piece, except for a small bolt-in part which housed the electronics, flywheel side roller cage bearing, and is supported by five long studs ( 30 and 45mm long ) and two heavy dowels ( 36mm ). From there you lined up the crank ( which was supported by 30mm long needle rollers ) and bolted on a one-piece jug, which mostly had four base screws but a small production run had six base mounting screws because some guys were porting the jugs so heavily that they blew the tops off of them. There were also a small run of 070 and 090 saws that had domed pistons from the factory.
 
Also in Austraila the 090 could be had with a removeable head and bigger bore 10 cubic inches 164 cc! but the 090 has cranksaft durability problems But I do have to say I would only use a new style saw to work in the woods with
 
Wayne Sutton from Amboy Washington has one of the big 090's with a factory removeable head. They were kart motors made for the Peter Stihl's kids. That one came from New Zealand.
 

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