Worker's Comp. Insurance

[Kneejerk Bombas]

If you were hurt and needed imediate medical help, and that help cost around a million dollars, then you'd be on welfare (unless you have some wealth we don't know about). And no, letting you die would not be a viable option.
I have no problem with self insurance, as long as you have funds compareable to what the insurance company will pay out.

Don't forget about the disability end of it. If you can't work, who pays the bills?

My friend who fell as he was decending a spar (I wrote about him in a previous post a few months ago), mind you it was a short fall, on to his ankle, is still not able to work and his doctoring bills are pushing a half a million dollars. Tell me, how you would contend with this situation if it were you and you had no insurance? Welfare?

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Actually, he is fine as far as money and bills go. In fact, he's a little better off that way because insuance benifits are not taxed like income is, so his take home is quite a bit higher.
Without insuance, he would fist lose everything, then he'd be on public dole.
That's why insurance is so important!
What gets me going is when my company loses good jobs to the guy that underbids us because he has no insurance. His insurance is my tax dollar!

 

[NeTree]

Had a groundman ask once why I couldn't pay him $18 an hour. I told him, I already DO...

By the time you pay taxes, unemployement, w/c, health insurance, etc...


I agree with you, the system is screwed, and needs to be revamped.

 

[Abbershay]

the reason the medical bills are so high is because of insurance.. No one questions the cost... mri 2000.00 for 12 minutes and then another 500 to have someone read the findings....

 

[ORclimber]

I'm thinking about starting WC. Don't legally have to have it, and don't like the thought of paying it. But, don't want to leave my wife and 2 kids saddled in debt if I get hurt. Also, don't want to her to lose what we've built together over 10 years.

I looked into disability insurance a while back and the insurance agent(brother in law) laughed at me. It looks like WC is the "best" deal for being covered. Wish there was a less expensive alternative. 7 years of no medical injuries should count for something.

 

[wiley_p]

W.C.

I've been injured on the job not only is ther cost of wc prohibitive but have you ever filed a claim? it is quite some time before compensation if any, is received. Also, the employer, state and insurance company all get their chance to do as little as possible.Trust me getting injured losing a couple of months work and IF you get any lost wages remember it is only 60% of your wage which you should receive about a year down the road. So F#@! the insurance. I'm self employed, avoiding most if not all of the situations that cause injury anyway, and making every attempt to keep the money I earned through my hard work and experience fo me and those I care about.

 

[Abbershay]

Farm bureau has insurance that will cover you ... there is a policy that will cover you for about 3500.00 clear per month if you are hurt. It costs about a hundred a month and if you never use it it pays you back in retirement.... i think it lasts for 20 years.

the amounts of coverage amounts vary the prems... i feel like a salesman today , i should get a commission.. i wouldnt be suprised if 50 people buy that chopper axe i posted... I would like to have one myself..

 

[Newfie]

Wrong...

"the reason the medical bills are so high is because of insurance"

No, it's primarily because of lawyers and frivolous lawsuits. Insurance companies are secondary in the problem.


I will personally continue to take the WC exemption. Better off putting that money in the bank.

How come none of the arborist's trade organizations offer insurance packages?(disability,life,health,dental) Certainly plenty of buying power.

 

[NeTree]

Originally posted by Abbershay
the reason the medical bills are so high is because of insurance.. No one questions the cost... mri 2000.00 for 12 minutes and then another 500 to have someone read the findings....

And don't forget those Tylenol at $10 each!

 

[NeTree]

Re: Wrong...

Originally posted by Newfie
I will personally continue to take the WC exemption. Better off putting that money in the bank.

Ditto.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

I have never heard of WC paying only 60%. I have personally collected and know several people who collected and all say the same thing: this is great.
Medical bills paid imediately and completely, pay check came sooner from the insurance company than the rest of the crew got their paycheck and with no tax.
Perhaps the state to state difference explains this.
Brian, the question stands, what would you do if you were in the position my freind is, only you are in it without insurance?
You would get welfare, right?

 

[Newfie]

Eat quickly...

"I'd rather eat my own used underwear "

Just eat it fast, Brian, or treeman82's buddy will try to heat the house with.

Come up to Mass, and see the hordes of guys living on WC. ( and working under the table at the same time) When abused it might as well be welfare.

 

[SilverBlue]

You guys make me appreciate our Canadian health care system even more. Rocky don't worry, if you break your ankle I will pressure wash it for you and only charge half price.

 

[Ax-man]

Re: Wrong...

Originally posted by Newfie
".

How come none of the arborist's trade organizations offer insurance packages?(disability,life,health,dental) Certainly plenty of buying power.

If you are refering to some type of group plan, forget it we are not a big enough group so to speak to interest the insurance industry in offering such plans. It has been tried before in the past.

I hate to say this but the insurance industry views arborists needs for coverage as a nusiance to provide insurance for due to all the high risk exposure in performing tree work. It doesn't matter what type of coverage your seeking wheather it be health, or disability, commercial liability, w/c , but they will bend over backwards to sell life insurance to you.

FYI trivia

I had an insurance company once that viewed " tree removers " different from " tree trimmers" Get this " tree removers do all their work on the ground" so they aren't such a high risk as "tree trimmers" who do their work up in a tree off the ground. I had a some what of a heated disscusion with our agent whose company cancelled us because of the risk of exposure. The company got rid of "tree trimmers" but kept "tree removers".

I agree with the statements here that insurance stinks and the system needs revamping.

My question is how high is up before we are litterally pricing ourselves out of work because of insurance???

I'm about ready to toss in the towel because of it, seems like any more you are just working for the ins. co., the goverment, the fuel companies seems like there is always some one with their hand in your pocket wanting money before you put it in there.

 

[Tree Machine]

insurance issues

For the guys reading who are confused about what insurances we arborists need (and please correct me if I'm wrong) Workman's Comp insurance is FOR the workers (employees), provided BY the employer, and it's expensive. I think there are laws requiring employers to provide it for their employees, which varies from state to state. Like Rocky J., I am a sole proprietor (actually, I'm a corporation). I have no employees and have no requirements or issue with workman's comp, whatsoever.

I know one company whose bossman does not carry workman's comp on his employees. When his employees have to go to the hospital, he simply foots the bill out of his own pocket. This is the path I choose, also, when I employ occasional help. Not carrying WC, and still being a responsible bossman, I guess that's how it works. We pray no one will get really hurt.

I carry my own liability insurance, in case I do major damage to someone's property, and I carry my own independent health insurance, in case I screw myself up. For the sake of love and security, I carry a million in life insurance in case my sweet wife has to mourn the loss of me. I also insure all my vehicles, chipper and gear. Lots of insurance, but workman's comp does not come into play until I have employees. When I climb for other companies, they are not required to have WC on me, as I am an independent contractor.

I also think disability insurance would be a total waste. This is to replace x% of your income if you become 'disabled'. It is somewhat subjective as to 'how' disabled you might be. Leaving that judgement up to an insurance company would be foolish, since they pretty much know you're out of work and can't afford a lawyer to fight em. So rather than throw money down THAT rathole, try putting it in a savings account instead.

I'm with Rocky, though. I would learn how to subsist on woodchips and bark before I'd EVER ask for a handout from Uncle Sam. -TM-

 

[Nickrosis]

Interesting that I had this conversation with my dad while I was home for Thanksgiving (he owns a tree/landscape business).

The system is self-correcting in that people who have a good safety record pay less and vice versa. I know it encourages companies to have a safety program and to promote safe work practices to reduce their accident rate and thereby reduce their multiplier. We save a lot of money per year - about $30,000 - by have a low multiplier because of going for over 20 years without a serious WC claim.

That's money in the bank, and it's reduced injuries, saved and better lives. A single accident, though, could send a company out of business in less time than it takes for a climber to hit the ground. Then what are you going to do without WC? With it, you'll pay a higher premium. If you were negligent, you'll probably get sued. But if you were a prudent supervisor, doing what you know to be right, and someone doesn't look both ways and dies. You shouldn't have to go out of business. It's an issue of fairness there.

Ultimately, I believe insurance makes people's lives better and enables people to live out their lives without being afraid to risk things because they can't afford to pay a hospital bill. What I hate is the riduculous rise in premiums in insurance in general, especially health insurance, because insurance companies went broke in the market yet still want to maintain a wide profit margin through premiums. These prices need to get under control so people can afford basic services they deserve.

If I get the privilege to continue my dad's business as I'm hoping to do, I want to continue to provide health (70% paid), dental, WC, short term disability, long term disability, and a huge liability policy. I think it's what companies should provide for their employees for their protection and for the benefit of the company. At the same time, high wages are important. The pervasive Wal-Mart mentality of low prices and low costs is not the way to go - everyone loses in the long term. High wages, high quality services = a better economy and society.

Nickrosis

 

[Stumper]

Brian, You are so smart-You think just like I do!

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Tree Machine, if your company is incorporated, then you are an employee of the corporation and it might be required for the cororation to have WC on you.
Prayer is one form of insurance I have not heard before as a vialble replacement for WC.
Nobody cares about broken fingers or ten stiches in the arm, in fact, as the boss you would be stupid to make WC claims on small stuff, it would drive your rates up more than the hospital cost. WC is for the rare big events.
I also think it's funny that none of you would think about working without liability, the same principals apply to all types of insurance, the only difference is the cost. The guys that carry some crappy liability coverage are the first ones bragging about how they are "fully insured".

Brian, you still have not answered the original question. And the same question goes out to the others here that say they don't have WC. Who will pay if the bills exceed your total assets?

I assure you, eating dirty underwear will not return you to health.

 

[TREETX]

Re: insurance issues

Originally posted by Tree Machine
For the guys reading who are confused about what insurances we arborists need (and please correct me if I'm wrong) Workman's Comp insurance is FOR the workers (employees), provided BY the employer, and it's expensive. I think there are laws requiring employers to provide it for their employees, which varies from state to state. Like Rocky J., I am a sole proprietor. I have no employees and have no requirements or issue with workman's comp, whatsoever.

Could we answer this before taking the spaz-fest any further? I don't think WC applies to RJS.....

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Interesting, because here the doctor determines when you can return to work, not WC.
You must be in a whole different system then we are in WI. Here, WC is just like auto insurance. The insurance is from private companies and the benifits are all layed out in advance in writing. The only state interferance, is if you are such a high risk, you get sent to a pool of insuance companies that are required to serve you. If there was ever a question about recieving proper beifits, there are a million lawyers that will kick some insurance company arses for a third of the take (doesn't cost you a thing until they win). A third seems like a lot, but if it goes that way, they can make you a whole lot of money. Consequently, the insurance guys bend over backwards to do you right, and the lawyers keep them honest.
How does your system differ?