Worn bar, run a wider chain!

[SamT1]

Well I run .050 bars and have a slew of them where the chains lay down in em. I bought an .058 archer chain for giggles $12 and tried it on my old bar stash. It fits in 90% or more of the way around them but everyone of them has one spot somewhere where it won’t go all the way into the groove. Would you buy some used .058 chains and finish sizing the bars?

I thought about peening the bar rails back in and running it until it’s wide again and trying again. I’ve done that several times in a pinch and it’s very short lived. Of course I could run the chain loose and try to “break it in” like that. I may be grasping at straws, but bars are a significant expense for me. If I could find a way to get another round out of one that would save me a lot. I have enough used bars I could not buy a single bar for a year and that would buy me half a 500i when available assuming it’s inline with a 462.

 

[HarleyT]

Just smear some valve lapping compound in there and run them!!!

 

[Mad Professor]

If you buy quality bars and run good oil/oiler it takes a real long time to wear out the groove. If you don't dress the rails, the chain will rock a bit and that is going to wear the groove faster. That is unless you are cutting dirt/stumping, then save the old bar/worn out chains for dirty work.

If my bars were worn I'd try a rail closer and if that did not work, the bar might be material to make a knife out of.

 

[SamT1]

Just smear some valve lapping compound in there and run them!!!

Hell I might try it with an trash chain and old rim.
I think my wood is basically full of grinding compound anyway.
I’ll try anything once. I even tried a $20 archer bar. 5 cords later it looks brand new still but the groove fits the .058 chain as good as anything else in my trash stash.

 

[HarleyT]

I was joking a bit....

That **** is bad news, I wouldn't want that getting in anything, it will destroy bearings quickly.

 

[Huskybill]

Sounds like a bar for the bar shop machine. Resize the groove or hammer the groove back to .050”.

 

[Philbert]

Running larger gauge chains through worn bars is an old 'trick' to avoid buying new bars. One problem is that the insides of the rails do not wear square - the groove will likely look like a flat bottomed 'V' instead of having straight walls and a flat bottom, so the chains will likely still wiggle a bit. In most cases, the nose sprocket will also be worn out long before the rails, so there will be lots of friction too.

If that is acceptable to you, you can go back to those 'tight spots' and try opening them up a bit with a cut off disc mounted in a Dremel tool. Get the good, reinforced discs, and grind to send the dust away from the bearings in the bars tip.

Philbert

 

[Huskybill]

All it takes is a piece of .050” shim stock and hammer the groove so it closes. Then use a belt sander to square the bar rails again.

 

[Philbert]

All it takes is a piece of .050” shim stock and hammer the groove so it closes. Then use a belt sander to square the bar rails again.

If the bar is far gone, that will close the rails temporarily, but often leaves a dovetail profile for the bar groove, which may still let the drive links lean to the side, and may spread again easily.

Philbert

 

[Huskybill]

Huztl / farmtec has cheap bars.

With any bar I clean the groove often so it gets oiled. Square the rails and flip them often. Don’t get me wrong there’s a difference when we do it for a living. I have a stack of worn bars somewhere. It’s the nature of the beast.

My buddy the local dealer has a bar shop machine but I hate to bother him.

 

[Huskybill]

Second thought when I square the bar rails I file the inside of the groove corners too I chamfer them inside and out. I wonder if the square corner on the inside of the groove can bind on the chain and cause the rails to spread out.?

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

I've never had a bar wear out the groove where it became an issue. Normally it gets worn out to where the drivers bottom out or the nose sprocket wears out. (and not worth replacing just it, a whole bar isn't much more $$)

 

[SamT1]

I've never had a bar wear out the groove where it became an issue. Normally it gets worn out to where the drivers bottom out or the nose sprocket wears out. (and not worth replacing just it, a whole bar isn't much more $$)

I’ve never worn out a nose sproket ever. I only get 15-20 cords on a bar.
Stihl oil, Oiler on high. Big saws made for big bars running short bars even.
Heck I have some stihl chains with 2/3 the tooth gone that you can barely see the oil grooves on the drive links.

I true up my rails now and then. I’ve never even been close to running out of depth.

 

[SamT1]

If the bar is far gone, that will close the rails temporarily, but often leaves a dovetail profile for the bar groove, which may still let the drive links lean to the side, and may spread again easily.

Philbert

That’s been my experience. IF I hammer them shut I get another cord or 2 and they are loose again. Most the time I close them too far and into the trash it goes. The flat shimm stock is a good idea though. I could get pretty aggressive with a hammer and maybe do a better job.

 

[SamT1]

I was jacking around this morning putting a new bar and chain on my primary saw. (Bar was shot on my secondary last time I used it so will move it down)

Anyway I had a Carlton chain on it that had maybe 1/4 of the tooth sharpened off. It had a lot of side to side play in the old Oregon hardnose that was on there. Not far from being able to straight edge it on one side and not bad on the other. The new stihl chain was pretty tight still in the bar.
Is there a spec for drive link wear? I know we don’t ever really see anyone talking about it. But seems like I’m getting some pretty strong DL wear too.
Up till recently I’ve been running the same 10 chains from all last winter and most of them were carry overs then. So they have some age on them. Heck most of them are probably down to 63-64DL from 66. I don’t run them very dull so I barely remove metal when I sharpen usually. Recogn running well worn chains could accelerate bar wear?

 

[pioneerguy600]

Myself, my family and others we cut with would often run a bar right out to a well worn .063, the bars started out as a .050 stock. Those were early heavy real steel bars from the 50`s up to the late 80`s. Bars now are too thin from the start to bother with, when the guide is worn it gets tossed to the scrap metal bin.Bar rail closers are a waste of time as already mentioned, a couple cord more, 4 - 5 hours run time and the chain is laying over again. I have run good bars and not so good ones, some got 40 - 50 cord while others got 5 times that. Keeping the oil flowing and chain sharp helps extend bar life but the conditions one is cutting in plays a big part in how long a bar lasts, dust and grit act just like a grinding wheel and will accelerate chain and bar wear a good bit.

 

[Ted Jenkins]

When the chain gets sloppy you put the next size of chain on it and let the smoke out of it. Once the smoke is let out every one is happy. One of my Stihl roller tip wore out the 050 then wore out the 058 now its on its 10th 063 chain and is quite content. I think it will receive a decent burial after the 063 is too loose. it has gone through at least a 1000 cords not to mention the engine overhauls. As long as they are ticking do not stop. Thanks

 

[SamT1]

When the chain gets sloppy you put the next size of chain on it and let the smoke out of it. Once the smoke is let out every one is happy. One of my Stihl roller tip wore out the 050 then wore out the 058 now its on its 10th 063 chain and is quite content. I think it will receive a decent burial after the 063 is too loose. it has gone through at least a 1000 cords not to mention the engine overhauls. As long as they are ticking do not stop. Thanks

You serious? Just let her self clearance? I mean it’s worth a shot on a $12 archer chain.

 

[Philbert]

I’ve never worn out a nose sproket ever.

The nose sprocket does not have to 'detonate' to be worn out, although, I have seen plenty where the rails are spread, the sprocket is broken into pieces, and the bearings are falling out. If the sprocket wears to the point where the tie straps are riding on the bar itself at the nose, the bearings are no longer reducing friction, and it is 'worn out'. This usually happens before much of the rail wear described above.

Of course, some bars have easily replaceable sprocket noses (RSN), and some allow the standard sprockets to be replaced, though fewer people do this these days, especially with low cost bars.

https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/nose-sprocket-rescue-illustrated.256640/

Philbert

 

[SamT1]

View attachment 741173
The nose sprocket does not have to 'detonate' to be worn out, although, I have seen plenty where the rails are spread, the sprocket is broken into pieces, and the bearings are falling out. If the sprocket wears to the point where the tie straps are riding on the bar itself at the nose, the bearings are no longer reducing friction, and it is 'worn out'. This usually happens before much of the rail wear described above.

Of course, some bars have easily replaceable sprocket noses (RSN), and some allow the standard sprockets to be replaced, though fewer people do this these days, especially with low cost bars.

https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/nose-sprocket-rescue-illustrated.256640/

Philbert

I’d have to look at that. I know all my trash bars still have good spinning sprokets. But I’m pretty good at cleaning them and greasing. What’s odd is all my worn out sproket nose bars have super loose rails on the tip. You’d think it would tightest there if I was pushing too hard or something. The Oregon hard nose bars wear slower around the tip for the most part. I need a bar made from all that metal.